Dawn of War II, Both better and worse than DoW Options

[Tanegar]

First, the good. Dawn of War II feels a lot more like 40k than Dawn of War did. The first one had its moments, but at the end of the day felt more like a generic sci-fi RTS dummied up to look like 40k. I can't really put my finger on why DoW2 does better in this regard, and YMMV. Also, the graphics are great. A marked improvement over DoW, and even Supreme Commander (my previous high-water mark for graphics in an RTS), although I doubt DoW2's graphics would look anything like as good on the scale of Supreme Commander.

Then, the bad. The unit AI is atrocious, and the primary means of taming it is gone. In DoW you could manually set a level of aggressiveness for each squad: either they wouldn't move from their position even when getting hammered, would pursue enemies a short distance and then return, or pursue any foe who came near as long as they could still see it. In Dawn of War II, that last option is the only option. If an enemy squad picks a fight, starts losing, and runs away, your squad will happily chase them across the entire map, more likely than not right into the guns of other enemy squads, and there is apparently no way to curtail this behavior other than by personally checking on each squad every minute or so like an overprotective mother. The level of micromanagement necessary both renders moot any complaints about tiny armies (and they are tiny; if you have more than half a dozen squads at any time you must be churning out cannon fodder) and saps much of the fun from the game.

Dawn of War II's primary draw for me has been the Last Stand gametype, wherein you and two other players control one hero apiece and try to survive waves of AI attackers.

Bottom line: As an RTS, I give it 5/10. As a multiplayer third-person action game, 8/10. Make of that what you will.

[Stahlseele]

The Chaos AddOn is out.
And the Ork AddOn is slated for release first quarter of the coming year i think.

[Tanegar]

I have Chaos Rising. Probably should have mentioned that in the OP, but oh well. I can't see myself buying any further expansions, though, unless they fix the bloody AI.

[Stahlseele]

Well, the Orky AddOn looks promising to me.
You can Play Orks and i think Chaos too.
Maybe even Eldar and Imps in addition to the baseline Spess Mehrens!

[Karoline]

I'd personally love a game that is simply the actual tabletop game on a computer. Bloodbowl did this and it has been highly successful (If the release of a squeal is any indication). I don't know what it is about people in top spots thinking that people who want to play/watch X actually want to play/watch something that is kind of vaguely X but is really Y with some X like trappings. I don't want to play an FPS, I want to play Shadowrun. I don't want to play a football game, I want to play bloodbowl. I don't want to play an RTS, I want to play Warhammer. I don't want to watch a movie that is loosely based on a book, I want to watch a movie that is actually based on a book.

I just don't understand how people get the thought process of: "Wow, this is really popular exactly as is, I should change a ton of stuff completely randomly and hope it remains as popular."

LotR for example did a very good job of keeping to the actual story, and it was amazingly popular. Eragon kinda sorta almost had the same vague story, and to my knowledge wasn't all that popular overall (I disliked the movie alot).

Okay /rant

I think the real difference between DoW 1 and 2 is the emphases on the base. In DoW 1 it was basically your focus point and the game played out more or less the same as any other RTS. In DoW 2 the base is basically (no pun intended) just the place where you grab your units. The combat portion is more or less the same as any other RTS, but that deemphasis on the base brings the game more in line with tabletop where you don't even have a base.

Edit: I really hate fighting against orks because you have to micromanage sooo much thanks to their autorun-at-high-speed thing. I do enjoy the campaign at least though, because there you have way more control over your squads.

[Stahlseele]

Well, as far as i understood, the Orky AddOn is going to add in base building again . . not sure though, due to being at work right now <.< *barf*

[Adarael]

I never had any problems with my units charging after things unless I told them to attack a specific unit... Usually they'd continue firing on something and would chase it if I had told them to chase, but otherwise they'd stay put in whatever cover they were in. The only exception to this is Avitus in Terminator armor: he keeps *backing up*.

I'll investigate when I get home, but ... I don't know why you're having this problem.

[StealthSigma]

I never had any problems with my units charging after things unless I told them to attack a specific unit... Usually they'd continue firing on something and would chase it if I had told them to chase, but otherwise they'd stay put in whatever cover they were in. The only exception to this is Avitus in Terminator armor: he keeps *backing up*.

I'll investigate when I get home, but ... I don't know why you're having this problem.

Matches my general experience. I always ran Avitus and Tarkus (using bolters over melee) for DoWII. They never chased. Same thing with Cyrus until I replace him with Davian.

[Karoline]

Think he means in the multiplayer games. I seem to remember the units acting a bit odder then (Not to mention having more units to deal with).

[Tanegar]

I'd personally love a game that is simply the actual tabletop game on a computer. Bloodbowl did this and it has been highly successful (If the release of a squeal is any indication). I don't know what it is about people in top spots thinking that people who want to play/watch X actually want to play/watch something that is kind of vaguely X but is really Y with some X like trappings. I don't want to play an FPS, I want to play Shadowrun. I don't want to play a football game, I want to play bloodbowl. I don't want to play an RTS, I want to play Warhammer. I don't want to watch a movie that is loosely based on a book, I want to watch a movie that is actually based on a book.

I just don't understand how people get the thought process of: "Wow, this is really popular exactly as is, I should change a ton of stuff completely randomly and hope it remains as popular."

LotR for example did a very good job of keeping to the actual story, and it was amazingly popular. Eragon kinda sorta almost had the same vague story, and to my knowledge wasn't all that popular overall (I disliked the movie alot).

Okay /rant

This. By great Cthulhu's naughty tentacles, THIS! ARE YOU LISTENING, RELIC?! THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS! MegaMek's brilliance stems entirely from the fact that it is BattleTech. It's not hard to figure out!

[Stahlseele]

It's not computer-science people . . oh, wait . .

[StealthSigma]

If anyone is interested in doing DoW2 coop send me a forum message. I've been keen on trying that out.

[Stahlseele]

Ask me, when the Orky Addon is out, that will give me some time to get used to the game again ^^

[Voran]

Figured I'd bump this rather than start my own thread. Just finished Chaos Rising for the 2nd time, still all 'pure in the eyes of the emperor' though I have to confess the Chaos/tainted gear is better. I mean, the only melta pistol i ended up with was a +3 corruption one.

Anyhoo, Steam is offering pre-purchase of the next expansion pack, though if its based on the DoW2 system structure, you'll probably just be able to adjust a .lua file and get all the bonus wargear even if you only purchase one 'set'. I'll likely go with the Imp Guard set, and as noted, .lua unlock the rest a week or two after the game gets released.

I do have to admit I'm interested in how they'll handle the power-creep of the storyline when you finally get back to playing your DoW2 force commander. From what I understand the Space Marine story in this expansion will be Capt Diomedes, which would allow for a slightly different power-setup, but still...by level 30, assuming they don't fall to corruption, your squad is fairly epic. I was never really fond of those games that reduced you to 0 in a sequel, but on the other hand in a way the gameplay of Chaos Rising made all the epic abils you gained in the up-to-20 game kinda ....minor, to the point that if you didn't have them you'd die immediately.

[Adarael]

Do you know if (since they're including Imperial Guard wargear) there's a single-player Imperial Guard campaign? I will shit bricks if the answer is yes.

[Voran]

My understanding is that there is a single player campaign for all 6 races, rather its kinda the same single player campaign but with different twist/approaches as you run through with a different race.

I'm guessing its like Dark Crusade in the sense that there was really only 1 'story' but your approach and outcome changed based on your chosen race.

[Adarael]

Well, that "klonk" noise you heard was the brick hitting the floor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Awesome.

[X-Kalibur]

I want them to give us some Sisters of Battle already.

[StealthSigma]

I want them to give us some Sisters of Battle already.

Mmmmm.

[Stahlseele]

Bolter Bitches. Nuns with Guns.
Fanwankery at it's finest *snickers* ^^
But thanks for reminding me of this, i will have to look around for more info on this next AddOn.
And probably either have to find my discs or try and pray that the steam stuff works <.<

edit:
i preordered retribution today. gonna try and get my grubbies on the collectors edition too!

[Fix-it]

My understanding is that there is a single player campaign for all 6 races, rather its kinda the same single player campaign but with different twist/approaches as you run through with a different race.

I'm guessing its like Dark Crusade in the sense that there was really only 1 'story' but your approach and outcome changed based on your chosen race.

I'm OK with this. Dark Crusade was the best part of DOW1.

as long as they don't go all Soulstorm on us...

[Stahlseele]

ech, i kinda hate the metamap thingie . . get one sector, go on to the next, go on to the next . . now you are losing the first sector again . . go back, take it again . . and the third sector is being lost in the mean time . . very frustrating <.<

[StealthSigma]

Bolter Bitches. Nuns with Guns.
Fanwankery at it's finest *snickers* ^^
But thanks for reminding me of this, i will have to look around for more info on this next AddOn.
And probably either have to find my discs or try and pray that the steam stuff works <.<

edit:
i preordered retribution today. gonna try and get my grubbies on the collectors edition too!

I preordered my copy off of steam.

[Stahlseele]

The Ork Version?

[StealthSigma]

The Ork Version?

The Imperial Guard version.

While I love the Orks, I have a soft spot for the Red Shirt Army.