What happened to all the Lone Star Beat cops? Options

[Daddy's Litt...]

When LS lost the contract for Seattle the corporatino suddenly did not need such a large number of employees in Seattle.
Some could have been transfered to the corporate security division and many combat mages and deckers would have been considered too expensive to let go BUT what about the vast bulk of the officers?

Do they get transfered to other cities to fill out LS police ranks there or, as LS lost a revenue stream from the Seattle Government, were there lay offs. this would make sense from a corporate point of view:
This would add to Seattle unemployment,sort of "You didn't want us? fine then we can add to your problems"
and create a larger number of people on the streets well versed in crime and strong arm tactics looknig for work. This could thicken the ranks of organized crime, possibly gangs and lower levels of the shadow community.

[Kliko]

They got a job with Knight-Errant?

[Teryon]

Or, like the guy I play, they become runners (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[vladski]

Perhaps they could organize together and create a new, much more limited, security force. A Seattle based corp that works for Seattle based businesses.

Or, you know, they could spend time working as a new underworld syndicate that gets its initial funding by raiding the weaker sisters already in the Underworld with insider knowledge.

Or perhaps they could become very specific Runners employed by KE to deal with things that KE doesnt want to publicly do.

Or, D. All of the above.

Vlad

[Makki]

They got a job with Knight-Errant?

their area knowledge and connections are vital. sure KE will employ a decent percentage

[Nath]

Seattle 2072, page 194
At the same time, Lone Star went through massive lay-offs. Some of the higher-ups got transferred to other districts and jurisdictions, and some officers and lower-ranking personnel stayed-on to cover the company’s existing private contracts, including the metroplex prisons, but everyone expects more layoffs after the transition is complete. Knight Errant has hired some experienced Lone Star officers, but they are not taking Lone Star rank, position, or salary into account, and are requiring recertification and training to KE standards, which means going back to school for a lot of veteran street cops.

> Who are none too happy about it, let me tell you. Knight Errant has already had disciplinary incidents at their Academy with former Lone Star officers getting into fights with KE “regulars” and recruits. The ex-Stars have a serious grudge, but they’re also razzed by the regulars as “losers” and baited to try and start something.
> Riser

> The for-hire muscle-market in Seattle is being glutted with ex-Lone Star personnel, the ones who can’t or won’t move on to other jobs, refuse to work for KE, or just can’t get hired elsewhere. Now after years of busting shadowrunners, they’re on the other side looking for work. It can get pretty ugly, too. I know of at least one case of former Lone Stars hired essentially as cannon fodder for a run against Mitsuhama. Stories like that making the rounds have made everyone more cautious, but desperate times breed desperate people.
> Snopes

[ProfGast]

IIRC (afb) Lone Star also is still in control of the jails in Seattle. There's that one mention where KE doesn't mind because if the jails overflow/screw up they can point out how Lone Star really can't handle it.

[Saint Sithney]

All those dirty bastards on the take probably got a rude awakening when it turned out the mob didn't need them anymore.
My bet is that the ones who tried to apply for Ares citizenship and join KE are the dirtiest bullies of the bunch who just can't let go of that power. They can't stomach the idea of their neighborhoods with their snitches falling to some other skull-cracker with a public contract.

[Chance359]

I imagine a few former Star officers grabbed everything not nailed down (guns, ammo, vehicles, evidence, data) and ran off into the night. I'm pretty sure they aren't trusted by the shadow community, but they are a resource.

[CanRay]

Some might be new residents in the ACHE, having had their benefits, and possibly even their citizenship stripped from them, and running to the UCAS as "Refugees".

[Yerameyahu]

Didn't they all get murdered by runners and gangers?

[CanRay]

Some, sure. Not every one of them, however. Some are now 'Runners and Gangers themselves. (Of course, with "The Police" being the largest Street Gang in the world... Meh.).

Needless to say, Officer Friendly who used to hunt down 'Runner Team Zero and is now a member of them, well, probably isn't a member in good standing.

[Warlordtheft]

IIRC All the cases in progress and files were accidentally ereased. Under cover cops are now probably just changing careers to full time criminals or runners. And more than a few of these Lone Star undercover cops are still taking orders from San Antonio to cause KE trouble.

Added benefit to runners: KE is Ares, so all the other AAA have even more incentive to not cooperate or throw red tape at the Local LEO.

[Daddy's Litt...]

Thanks guys, esp. Nath for that all important line. I was thinknig that several thousand unemployed low level thugs might depress the shadow market prices as there are a lot more people out there willing to do a job for a few yen. Not the A flight guys but the grunt level thugs are now finding more competition for their work.

[Yerameyahu]

Doesn't that constitute 'murdering' the cops in a metaphysical sense? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Ryu]

KE would need to hire, and even if they are picky they are generating open slots in other corporations. They would judge LS experience against the benefit of starting fresh, so low-qualification officers would end up working for the lower-quality service providers, and better ones would end up with KE or solid competitors.

Those internal conflicts must be interesting time. If they put LS personell below their appropiate position, they should have a skill advantage. Want to get ahead as original KE? Better get rid of that noob.

[Sengir]

IIRC All the cases in progress and files were accidentally ereased. Under cover cops are now probably just changing careers to full time criminals or runners.

The final of The Departed on a grand scale...I think I just got a character idea, thank you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[CanRay]

KE was well prepared to take over the market, and had constantly had an "Overstrength" level of "security guards" for Seattle. Not enough to put out a full police force, but better than starting from scratch.

Also, they'd have a lot of other places to transfer from as well. Ares is International, and as long as the person in question can speak English and/or Japanese...

Finally, Ares isn't as racist as Lone Star (Then again, HUMANIS is about the only group that is more racist than Lone Star), which means a lot of Metahumans that have been applying for police positions have finally found they have interview options open to them...

[Fauxknight]

They got a job with Knight-Errant?

This. When a company takes over a contract that is large enough to require more employees, it means the company that used to have the contract probably has exactly that many employees sitting around that they no longer require.

[CanRay]

This. When a company takes over a contract that is large enough to require more employees, it means the company that used to have the contract probably has exactly that many employees sitting around that they no longer require.

Except that there's an issue of citizenship. Lone Star Officers are citizens of the country of Lone Star Security. Knight Errant (A wholly-owned subsidiary of Ares) Officers are citizens of the country of Ares Macrotechnology.

First, they'd have to apply for the new citizenship, renounce their former citizenship, take loyalty tests and other fun things involving Trode Nets or DataJacks, and other such glorious things!

And then they get to be beat cops with no seniority whatsoever while some kid out of Ares-U gets to boss them around.

Oh, and I almost forgot: Looked upon with suspicion as they're "Not true Ares Employees". They weren't "Born to the Corporate Family" and such brainwashing...

[imperialus]

A lot of that depends on how you interpret corporate citizenship. I've always viewed actually being a corp citizen (regardless of the mega) as being limited to management level employees, for all the reasons you mentioned CanRay. It's just too much hassle to have every beat cop and desk jockey actually become a citizen, and neither LS or KE are large enough to have a massive pool of corporate citizens busy breeding new citizens. Far more likely that anyone under the rank of Captain is just a plain old UCAS citizen, or possibly an Ares citizen in the case of KE.

Ultimately the logic behind corporate citizenship (and even extraterritoriality for that matter) begins to break apart in some pretty interesting and bizarre ways if you look at it too closely. Far better IMO to just squint at it and either ignore it or handwave it into the plot if it makes sense for your game.

[CanRay]

Actually, is it even legal to have a Law Officer from one country arrest someone from another?

I really doubt the US would be too happy about a RCMP Officer driving across the border, even with permission, and arresting a US Citizen. It'd be more likely he'd stand beside the US Marshals as they arrest the suspect, and then take over the custody at the border/airport.

[imperialus]

Indeed. One of the big advantages runners have is the ability to leave an extraterritorial enclave and disappear into the larger sprawl. The corp can't pursue them beyond their 'boarders' and you have to question how motivated the local government law enforcement agencies are in actually pursuing heavily armed and highly skilled operatives who just shot up a AAA's facility. After all if a Red Samurai detachment couldn't stop them what chance does an HTRT have? Nevermind the hassle that the justice system would have to go through to actually extradite them to the corp.

If your runners are savvy enough, they can really game the balkanization of the UCAS to their advantage.

[CanRay]

A trip over the Metroplex wall and into the Cascade Ork lands, and you're untouchable. The UCAS and the NAN have never got along nicely, as long as your 'Runners haven't done anything that would piss off the NAN, you're pretty close to golden.

IIRC, however, I believe there is a "Hot Pursuit" agreement between some countries (Canada and the US, perhaps) that allows for each others law officers to pursue a suspect that jumps the border in certain circumstances. (Although, I might be thinking Counties instead of Countries.). However, for the most part, we're back to the RCMP/US Marshals exchange again.

As for running from the CAS into Aztlan...

Um, wait, why are you running INTO Aztlan?

[Blade]

A trip over the Metroplex wall and into the Cascade Ork lands, and you're untouchable. The UCAS and the NAN have never got along nicely, as long as your 'Runners haven't done anything that would piss off the NAN, you're pretty close to golden.

IIRC, however, I believe there is a "Hot Pursuit" agreement between some countries (Canada and the US, perhaps) that allows for each others law officers to pursue a suspect that jumps the border in certain circumstances. (Although, I might be thinking Counties instead of Countries.). However, for the most part, we're back to the RCMP/US Marshals exchange again.

As for running from the CAS into Aztlan...

Um, wait, why are you running INTO Aztlan?

Today, 'Hot Pursuit' is accepted in international law, as far as something as international law exists. This means that most countries will probably tolerate a cop car chasing a suspect across the border, except in really tense situations (war/cold-war). Only countries with good relationship will accept large-scale deployments. But in most cases, the "invaded" country knows better than to start a war just because of this. So if you stole something really important from Aztechnology and try to escape into the CAS (when they're not at war), Aztechnology might try to push its luck knowing that the CAS won't do more than protest.
But if the local police joins, the foreign police should stop its chase.

And even once you're outside the country you're not necessarily out of trouble, even if you're in a country that hates the other one. The CAS will welcome Aztlan dissidents, but if you're just a dangerous criminal they won't want you in their country any more than Aztlan does.