How strong is a Troll, exactly? Options

[Cube]

Shadowrun is kind of bad about issuing benchmarks, so I have to wonder.

Assuming moderate physical training, no Phys AD powers, and no ware, how strong is a troll?

[Stahlseele]

Natural Maximum of STR 10, if that did not change since SR3.
So not quite twice as strong as the strongest natural human.
But more than 3 times as strong as the normal human intermediate at STR 3 . .
A normal Troll STARTS at STR5 MINIMUM, which is STILL twice as strong as most humans will be.
And still just shy of being as strong as the strongest natural human possible.
Moderate Training, let us say STR of 8.
Still much stronger than the strongest natural human.
Still 2 to 3 times as strong as 90% all of the rest of the normal humans in the world.

[Tanegar]

Not quite to the level of "punching your skeleton out of your body," but still more than strong enough to beat you to death with his bare hands pretty quickly.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, or 7. I dunno if Strength has a linear meaning (in the Str+Bod test, it does), but that's still 4 more than the canonical Human average (3). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So, a Str 7 Bod 7 'average' Troll can lift around 90kg, or carry twice that; in pounds, that's roughly 200lb and 400lb. The human is ~40kg/80kg (~90lb/180lb). Better dice luck favors the troll, cuz his DP is more than double.

[Adarael]

A basic troll is as strong as most heavyweight boxers or professional weigtlifters. Not the top-tier ones, mind you, but the rank and file.

A troll with moderate training has Strength 8. This means they are stronger than an Alligator, but slightly less strong than a moose or a grizzly bear. They are on par with an ox or a horse, and probably a brown bear, as well.

A troll with maxed strength is as strong as a wild Minotaur. He is stronger than a grizzly bear. He will tear your car apart with his hands.

Assuming a troll with maxed strength also invested in bio and cyberware to increase his strength, or has cyberarms, he could conceivably wrestle a basic dracoform, or a piasma.

[Stahlseele]

Anybody still have Knassers WHAT WOULD SAMURAI DO?
Especially the SR4 Version of that?

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

It's not the latest version but I think it is good enough

HERE

[Stahlseele]

That's the SR3 Version without the Troll
Hang on folks, i hacked into my old mail account and got the archive with all of knassers good stuff.
Damn it, i take it back.
The SR4 WWSD is not in there either <.<

[Yerameyahu]

I had it on my computer, so here: http://img703.imageshack.us/i/whatwouldsamuraido.png
Does have a troll, and the stats look like SR4. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

YES!
THAT is the one i was talking about!
*saves it*

[Raven the Tricks...]

Yeah that's the SR4 version, exactly as I remember it from about a year ago.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, that's when I saved it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Cuz it's awesome.

[hobgoblin]

I clearly missed out on that one when it showed up originally...

[Stahlseele]

All the better that we got it to resurface here then.
Only way it could have been better would have been with Knasser himself coming out of hiding to repost it here . .

[ElFenrir]

It's interesting; the lifting thing, you can see where the very high Body comes into play too; since if you notice that the Unarmed Combat scenario, Tin Man and Troll are even.

However, I'm guessing that once you put a Knife into play-the troll's higher Body and Armor might help him shrug off that damage more, which is why he takes a couple of extra out in a knife fight vs. Tinman.

But aye, you'd need to look, for raw lifting, at Body as well. If a 7 Strength Troll and a 7 Strength Human, both with Arm Wrestling: 3 sit at a table and have it out, it would likely just be whoever rolls higher would be the winner. But if these guys were to walk outside to have a lifting match, and the Troll had a 8 body, with the human with a 4 body, the troll would have a higher max lift. Of course, this isn't just troll vs. human; if two humans with mad Genetech or whatever had 7's in strength, but one human had a 4 body and the other a 7, the one with the extra body would be able to push a little bit more above their head at the end of the day.

When you start playing with some different number combos you can get some interesting results as well; a 3 Strength, 6 Body human vs. a 4 Strength, 4 Body human. Even though the 4 Strength human has a max of 20kg they can put above their head with no test(Strx5kg with no test above the head), while the 3 Str human has a max of 15, if they both rolled the maximum hits, they would be able to lift totally even amounts. (I guess how this would be explained is that Mr. Average Strength Superbody guy would be able to somehow push his body just a little more to even it out.)

[Doc Chase]

Trolls I run tend to use the engine block out of a Dodge arc-welded to a heavy tow chain as a morning star.

[Stahlseele]

I once used a street lamp pole with a sharpened car bumper welded to it as my pole-arm.

[CanRay]

I once used a street lamp pole with a sharpened car bumper welded to it as my pole-arm.

Bumper Sword?

[Stahlseele]

Close ^^
But more like the Telephone-Pole/Street-Lamp the Goliath Super Mutants in Fallout³ Base game use with a Bumper-Sword welded to one end.

[ElFenrir]

You know, reading this thread I think I'm shortchanging my (non troll, but has Exceptional Strength + Genetech: Strength) character who has a cybertorso and a pair of Kid Stealth legs augmented to a strength of 12 all around. I didn't know he'd be able to do THAT ridiculous stuff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Twelve is TWICE the natural Maximum.
You are TWICE as strong as ANY other Human has HOPES of being.
You are FOUR TIMES as strong as 90% of all humans are.
People can do silly stuff even today, i think the lifting world record is at something like 300kilo gram or so
technically, you would be able to lift 1200kilo . . 1.2 TONS speaking strictly from the muscle strength perspective.
But your bones and sinews are not made to withstand such weight, so you are going to break as soon as you manage to lift.
if your spine does not simply snap when you put all of your strength into the heave ho . .
why do you think people STILL complain about Troll-Bows?
and it was MORE EPIC in SR3 *snickers* ^^
Now from the STR12 Kid Stealth Legs.
Basically, you can lift 1200kilo WITH YOUR LEGS.
how much does your body weight?
120kilo?
How high can you jump from a stand?
0.5 to 1m up? now multiplay by 10.
you can, technically speaking, without much of a problem, jump anywhere between 5 and 10m straight up from a crouch.

[Yerameyahu]

How much does a normal polearm or heavy club weigh, compared to the wielder's total carrying capacity? A troll version shouldn't be more than the multiple the troll has of the human's strength. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) So, the average troll is a little over twice as strong as the average human; his melee weapons shouldn't be much more than twice the weight.

[Stahlseele]

You ever seen an average ANYTHING as a player character? *snickers*
18STR is REALLY fearsome in SR3.

[Critias]

How high can you jump from a stand?
0.5 to 1m up? now multiplay by 10.
you can, technically speaking, without much of a problem, jump anywhere between 5 and 10m straight up from a crouch.

Well, no. What makes sense in terms of pure physics and multiplication isn't always the case in terms of the rules of the game. Jumping is an Agility, not a Strength, skill. There are certainly ways to boost it based upon your character build, but having a ridiculously high Strength alone isn't enough to do it.

[Stahlseele]

Ah, right, that got changed from 3rd to 4th, i forgot about that <.<