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[LostProxy]

I see the pricing for renting a programming environment but what about buying one?

[CanRay]

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

[LostProxy]

So there is no listed price? Fantastic. Now I have steal a whole damn Nexus >.>

[scarius]

it works better when its stolen, everyone knows this

much like how cars drive faster if they are stolen, and food tastes better

[Seerow]

So there is no listed price? Fantastic. Now I have steal a whole damn Nexus >.>

Are Nexi really all that expensive? I can't imagine them costing more than a facility.

[LostProxy]

It's not the Nexus that's the issue. I want a programming environment. They have no listed price. Thus I must steal one that has one installed already.

[Seerow]

It's not the Nexus that's the issue. I want a programming environment. They have no listed price. Thus I must steal one that has one installed already.

What's the rule for a permanent lifestyle? Costx100?


Typical charge for 1 day of programming is 100 nuyen per day, which is about 3000 a month, which translates into 300,000 permanent.


Ouch, yeah best to just steal one.

[CanRay]

*Sits back in the shadows where only my eyes and a slasher smile on my face can be seen*

[Summerstorm]

I myself always rated them as being a "Software facility", so to speak. Multiple Nexi with agents, specialized programs etc. I guess you could get one legal, where i priced it as an expensive facility: 200.000.

So you better have it running 24/7 for multiple wage-slaves to turn a profit... like all facilities *g*

[TheOOB]

I think once you're character owns a programming environment they need to turn in their shadowrunner club card(aka, this goes beyond the scope of the game system)

[Yerameyahu]

God forbid there be something a shadowrunner can't buy permanently. Don't you think stealing/black-market-buying *time* on one is cooler?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

God forbid there be something a shadowrunner can't buy permanently. Don't you think stealing/black-market-buying *time* on one is cooler?

I always thought so. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[LostProxy]

I suppose it would be must cheaper to hack a valid account and then hide it. How would a Spider find the account after I've hidden it? I don't see anything about finding hidden accounts.

[Yerameyahu]

"These exploits do not remain forever, and can be removed if found by the node’s security or if the node is rebooted." You can be noticed if you don't clean the Access Log, scanned by IC/spider while logged on, etc. I really think there's a list action for 'check the node', but I can't find it immediately. The GM-fiat answer is that node security services (IC, spider, whatever) perform regular maintenance for backdoors/etc., and better nodes do it more often.

[LostProxy]

Ahh ok. Thank you. I've never played a hacker before so I'm trying to wrap my head around a bunch of stuff.

[CanRay]

Maybe Register a Sprite/Dedicate an Agent to re-hack the account after it's been found by the Node's security system or rebooted?

[LostProxy]

Isn't an agents dice pool a bit on the limited side?

[Yerameyahu]

Depends on the agent and the programs it has. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In practice, they're not much worse than non-specialist hackers. They *do* have to be modified to perform *any* hacking/illegal action, though.

[LostProxy]

Wouldn't it max at 12 dice? I guess I could put a second agent on it and get a teamwork test to boost the pool.

[Yerameyahu]

Yep. How many dice does the average hacker have? Skill+Spec+Program+Hot Sim? So that's 16 if you pull out the stops, getting un-Available programs, risking hot sim, and using it for your single starting 6 skill. A truly specialized hacker can get lots of dice (more than 16), but 12 is still a lot. I think my last chargen hacker/generalist had like 10 dice.

Take a look at Unwired p69 for sample spiders; the 'professional spider' has DPs around 6-8; the 'security expert' is 7-11. The 'matrix master' is only like 12-14.

[Mardrax]

I don't see anything about finding hidden accounts.

Solution:
Get a fling going with a wageslave who uses the environment.
Social engineer your way into riding on his/her access.
?????
Profit!

[HunterHerne]

Yep. How many dice does the average hacker have? Skill+Spec+Program+Hot Sim? So that's 16 if you pull out the stops, getting un-Available programs, risking hot sim, and using it for your single starting 6 skill. A truly specialized hacker can get lots of dice (more than 16), but 12 is still a lot. I think my last chargen hacker/generalist had like 10 dice.

Take a look at Unwired p69 for sample spiders; the 'professional spider' has DPs around 6-8; the 'security expert' is 7-11. The 'matrix master' is only like 12-14.

That's kind of low for a hacker. I mean, really, I'm not a twinkie min-maxer, and I could probably find 12 dice in bonuses.

[Yerameyahu]

I agree, and I said that in the bit you quoted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The books are notorious for being less minmaxy than real players.

[Mardrax]

That's why the question isn't how high you can go, but more how high the system expects you to go, in order to work the way it should.

[Udoshi]

I myself always rated them as being a "Software facility", so to speak. Multiple Nexi with agents, specialized programs etc. I guess you could get one legal, where i priced it as an expensive facility: 200.000.

So you better have it running 24/7 for multiple wage-slaves to turn a profit... like all facilities *g*

This is actually how it was handled in my game. My hacker had a contact that let him borrow access to one, and when he made it big, i asked the GM about *buying* one - because its basically a dedicated server farm with smart/agent assisted interface.

We decided that it counts as a Shop for Software- gives full time discount, but only half the usual dice pool benefit. As a Shop level facility, its kind of a pain in the ass to setup and move, so that represents how (im)mobile it is,(even nexi can be mobile, see evo's mobile nexus in unired) instead of just some software creation suite plus running on a commlink.

[CanRay]

I agree, and I said that in the bit you quoted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The books are notorious for being less minmaxy than real players.

Just proves that creativity and ingenuity tend not to be able to punch a clock. Real Deckers/Hackers tend to be the types that are as fickle as a Coyote Shaman.

[bobbaganoosh]

Wouldn't it max at 12 dice? I guess I could put a second agent on it and get a teamwork test to boost the pool.

You could also give the Agent the Adaptability autosoft, which can boost its dice pool by 3. Plus the teamwork from another agent gets it up to 21 dice, average 20.

[Seerow]

You could also give the Agent the Adaptability autosoft, which can boost its dice pool by 3. Plus the teamwork from another agent gets it up to 21 dice, average 20.

Adaptability doesn't work that way. Adaptability is basically just bonus dice for when your GM decides the instructions you gave weren't specific enough for the agent to know what to do, so the GM rolls pilot+adaptability to see if the agent can figure out what it's supposed to do. Buying adaptability isn't just a flat +3 dice on all of your agent's normal tests.

[Yerameyahu]

Right. Still a good idea, because the GM should be enforcing that roll like crazy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) An agent isn't a person.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That's why the question isn't how high you can go, but more how high the system expects you to go, in order to work the way it should.

That has been addressed Ad Naseaum... No one appears to agree. Personlly, I think that there is already a great metric for that; the NPC Templates. *shrug*

[Socinus]

God forbid there be something a shadowrunner can't buy permanently. Don't you think stealing/black-market-buying *time* on one is cooler?

Fewer loose ends. If you can do things in-house, less of a chance of setting alarms off.

[Yerameyahu]

Psh. At that point, you're not a shadowrunner anymore.

[Seerow]

Psh. At that point, you're not a shadowrunner anymore.

You're not a shadowrunner because you don't do everything illegally?

So I guess a character with day job that is being used to pay for a high lifestyle isn't a shadowrunner, no matter what he does when he's off work?

[Yerameyahu]

No. Because you're 'doing things in-house'… with a special large-scale operation. You're not a shadowrunner if you have a drugs complex to make your drugs in-house, etc. I was half-teasing, but only half. If you're big-time enough for this stuff, you're not an agile independent operator.

[CanRay]

Psh. At that point, you're not a shadowrunner anymore.

You're not a shadowrunner because you don't do everything illegally?

Hipster Shadowrunners?

[Kirk]

Hipster Shadowrunners?

Contacts.