Orks and Trolls: Time for some dental work? Options

[Squinky]

So, something I've thought about a bit, just throwing out for a consensus.

I know it seems like power gaming to play an Ork or Troll who has undergone cosmetic surgery to look more human like. You get all the bonuses without the flavor.

But, I look at trolls and think that those horns they have would be a total bitch. Sleeping would suck, among other things. Not to mention tusks on either race. Their mouth is never really quite closed. That's gotta cause issues.

Now, take one of these Meta-types that have the ability to install crazy expensive cyber, some of which changes their appearance dramatically already. Wouldn't some of these guys have a little nip-tuck done? For merely convenience sake? I kinda think there would be a few "pretty" Trolls being bouncers in high end type places.

I could see social and racial prejudice being thrown there way because of this, but really, Orks and trolls get that already.

Any thoughts?

[Christian Lafay]

Not to mention tusks on either race. Their mouth is never really quite closed. That's gotta cause issues.

Sounds a bit like mouth breathers I see at my gas station.

[Saint Hallow]

This was discussed in another thread on cosmetic surgery on orks, trolls, & etc...

For an Ork... it makes sense. Get enough work done, & you could pass for human. Troll don't have that luck... few humans are over 9 feet tall, have long arms, & are sized like walking Hummers.

There's also the human looking quality... but that seems a waste as with enough nuyen, you can buy your looks.

[Glyph]

The tusks probably aren't that much of an issue, comfort-wise. The problem is that the artists tend to go amok when drawing orks or trolls. For every one with functional-looking tusks, there are ten freaks who wouldn't be able to close their mouths without cutting themselves. It's orks and trolls, dammit, not radioactive mutants!

Also, keep in mind that orks and trolls who get certain kinds of cosmetic surgery could be seen as "wannabe breeders", and treated with a fair amount of contempt, by other orks and trolls (and even other metatypes, the progressive or nonconformist ones at least). Some cosmetic surgery is probably acceptable - straightening out teeth, capping horns like most minotaurs do, and such. But when you start actually looking like a human, or some freakish uncanny valley version of one, you will probably start losing street cred.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Uncanny Valley Trolls as Humans. Interesting... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

There's heavy social mods if your Human-Looking Ork is found out... From both Humancentric and Orkcentric peoples. You're a traitor to both peoples! It's twice the social negative modifiers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

And you're probably treated like an Elf/Ork Poser, too.

[Ascalaphus]

It hardly seems like powergaming to me if you actually make an RP issue of your "ethic" looks. I think it's laudable.

In the real world, some Asians have their eyelids surgically reshaped to look more Caucasian; why shouldn't orks have their tusks reworked?

[CanRay]

Didn't I hear about some Trolls have scrimshaw work done on their horns, like a tattoo?

[ShadowJackal]

My question to this is how far has plastic surgery truly come because the level of change is substantial. It would not simply be facial reconstruction but full body reconstruction. I'd imagine down to chests and pelvis's being cracked and narrowed. Muscles contoured and perhaps even limb shortening.

I've done this to an ork, but wondered just how close to human she really could come. I pictured her looking just a smidge off, perhaps how a F to M transgendered person might look but ork to human. High cheekbones and harsh angles in her face. But then again with medical advances I wonder if there'd be any signs or scars left at all.

[CanRay]

Depends on how much you can pay for, with vat-grown skin as an option... The scars, if any, would be quite small and in places not normally seen.

[Sixgun_Sage]

tehana does make a good point but take it a step forward, the jaw structure of a sabertooth tiger is different from it's modern relatives and in any species that uses vocalizations the shape of the mouth is a big deal, it does after all affect how you form sounds. A troll or ork who had their tusks done would have to learn how to make some sounds all over again. Then the issue of chewing, they would find themselves shifting food around in their mouth to accommodate tusks that aren't there any more. And if they had their jaw rebuilt to take care of how it would protrude? Congrats, you look a little closer to human, but good luck being understood, mush mouth. This is before we get in to how muscles in the neck and jaw interact with each other, how the tongue fits in the mouth how scarring from surgery could affect the secretion of saliva....

Basically? too many reasons to discuss why making an ork or troll "human looking" is an expensive proposition and at my table we have always house ruled it you can get close, but you end up basically being treated like a "human poser", though an ork with human looking as a quality can pretty much get it spot on.

[CanRay]

Anyhow, why would you want to look human now with Ork Pride going about! There's even an Ork CEO of a AAA-Corp now! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Anyhow, why would you want to look human now with Ork Pride going about! There's even an Ork CEO of a AAA-Corp now! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Ork Pride... Now there is an Oxy-Moron... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Ork Pride... Now there is an Oxy-Moron... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You try telling that to Gary Cline. Check to see if there's plastic on his office floor first.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You try telling that to Gary Cline. Check to see if there's plastic on his office floor first.

Heheheh... It is only there for some redecorating. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Heheheh... It is only there for some redecorating. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah... Keep telling yourself that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

[Squinky]

I'm not seeing dental work as being that big of a deal. People have painful procedures done on their teeth as we speak, some only for pure cosmetics.

I could see tusks being corrected in minor ways as common, for the more privileged tuskers. Something started young.

Same for horns. Both of them would be simple issues of comfort.

As far as making them look like humans, I'm sure there as surgeries that could. Even ghouls can get cosmetic surgery for that.

I mean, trolls are still going to be a crazy tall, oddly proportioned looking people.

I see a couple reasons folks might want to do this:

Comfort
To look less fearsome, perhaps these tuskers like human and elf women, and want to be more appealing to them?
A person who goblinized later in life would definately consider it.

[Iduno]

I remember (but I could definetly be wrong) reading that bigger tusks were equated with manliness.

[Sixgun_Sage]

I don't exactly disagree with you Squinky, I just think your view is relevant for the more human looking orks and metavariants, in some of the illustrations in official books if you pay attention to the scale there is really no way the tusks of some of the individuals presented to fit in a normal metahuman mouth without restructuring them. Look at Contacts And Adventures for a prime example right on the cover, those tuskers have the sort of underbite that makes me think of a particular Venture Bros villain.

[CanRay]

Comfort
To look less fearsome, perhaps these tuskers like human and elf women, and want to be more appealing to them?
A person who goblinized later in life would definately consider it.

BAH! There's humans and elves that love the big, burly types! Why should they have to change...

Oh who am I kidding? Society gives a view on beauty and the sheeple follow it. Starve themselves sick, get painful and unnecessary surgeries (That take valuable trained doctors away from life saving, but less paying, surgery suites), make-up (Animal and Paraanimal testing), perfume/cologne (Same), improper gym exercises that injure them and will cripple them later in life, take drugs and herbal treatments (And who knows what the hell they are really!), unsafe diets from charismatic and undocumented "Experts" (At least they aren't televangelists)...

I'm ranting again, aren't I?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm ranting again, aren't I?

Only a bit... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Wakshaani]

But you look so *beautiful* when you rant...

[CanRay]

But you look so *beautiful* when you rant...

I look like text on a screen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I look like text on a screen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

And your Avatar... Don't forget your Avatar... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Yes, because things look great in 16-Bit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)