Magical Resources as an Alternative to Drain, Ammo equivalent for spells and summoning Options

[Jizmack]

Greetings All,
This thread is to invoke feedback and constructive criticism from the Dumpshock community regarding the feasibility of the following house rule:

As an alternative to using the Drain effect for mitigating and restraining magicians, Magical Resources could be used instead.
Magical Resources are otherwise known as spell components and could be anything (it’s magic, after all, so let people get creative).

The intent is to imitate the power and effectiveness of magicians with people using firearms and gear. The magician’s “weapon” would be his/her spell formula, along with the appropriate skill (i.e. – spellcasting) to utilize the “weapon”… so far so good… but, the “ammo” to make the “weapon” effective would be the Magical Resources.

For example, a magic user casts a spell with normal Drain value of 4. Instead of resisting the Drain and suffering the Stun Damage, the magic user would instead exhaust/deplete some spell components. In other words, casting the spell would Drain 4 points of Magical Resources.

A few consequences:

1) Access to Magical Resources would define the power and effectiveness of magicians, making key contacts more vital and planning/prepping for runs more intricate.

2) Magical security would be very similar to regular security with regards to preventing individuals with lethal capabilities from entering a specified area (airplane, courthouse, border crossing, etc.). Just as there are devices and skilled people to scan/search for melee weapons and ammunition, there would likewise be devices and magically skilled people to scan/search for any Magical Resources. In turn, Magical Resources could be hidden or concealed in some way, just like normal weapons/ammo.

3) The GM could have more control over how much magic would be employed in a given scenario or the overall campaign by simply varying the availability and cost of Magical Resources. Currently, background counts are the only feasible way to do this, so by using Magical Resources there is an alternative non-magical way of limiting magic.

4) The Enchanting skill, Arcana skill, or both could be used to fabricate Magical Resources from mundane resources; albeit the required mundane resource would still have some cost associated with them. This would be beneficial for Shamans living in the natural environment (i.e. - backwater wilderness).

5) Each spell/spirit formula could require its own specific Magical Resource, which would make looting other magician’s Magical Resources almost worthless. Yet, this would make the access issue (consequence #1) even more difficult, unless it is moderated by allowing magicians to fabricate their own (consequence #4).

I thank you in advance for your comments (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Magus]

The one issue on this is cost. Mages dont really buy anything they hoard Karma. So typically the mage has all this cash to spend and doesn't. He has to buy Lodge Materials and Binding supplies both are not too expensive and with Enchanting they can harvest there own with a talismonger kit.

So no I dont see this a viable way to control magic

[Modular Man]

1-4) [...]

Maybe a kind of magical battery? Other game systems (and a lot of computer games) use some kind of (maybe regenerating) ressource, often called "Mana". You could as well store this in an external device.

Well, how much would you cahrge for one "shot" of magic? Ammunition is reasonably cheap as long as you keep to the more basic parts (so no assault cannon AV rounds or fully automatic grenade salvos (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). Though SR doesn't have a way of counting weight, a chain belt of HMG ammo weighs a bit, maybe a little more than your average mage wants to chuckle. Pistol ammunition is much lighter. Do you want weight to be an issue?

5) Each spell/spirit formula could require its own specific Magical Resource, which would make looting other magician’s Magical Resources almost worthless. Yet, this would make the access issue (consequence #1) even more difficult, unless it is moderated by allowing magicians to fabricate their own (consequence #4).

Even guns of the same category use the same ammunition (not the same magazines, though). Set the limits at least up to that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mages do spend money. Foci and such are expensive at a higher force. Binding spirits (to what, maybe five services?) also costs a little. Well, those ressources already can be home-made for a better price, "Street Magic" provides rules for that.

It would, of course, basically rewrite the magic system. I like the idea, though. I'm just not sure if I would really like to play with this set of rules.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It would, of course, basically rewrite the magic system. I like the idea, though. I'm just not sure if I would really like to play with this set of rules.

I know that I would not... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[phlapjack77]

I like this idea - it'd take some playtesting I think to really see the ripple-effects and all that, but on the surface, very interesting...

For 5), like Modular Man said, I would instead allow magical resources to be looted for categories of spells. So your mage knows powerbolt, and downs another mage, then loots that mage of any combat spell resources he has.

Other ideas / random thoughts about this:

6) Because there is no "drain", this makes drain stats less useful when building a char. What are the effects of this?

7) How about if a mage has no magical resources for a spell, then they can use their own body as the resource? So a mage wants to cast a F6 powerbolt, drain 4S, so they immediately take 4S, no staging the drain down.

[Modular Man]

6) Because there is no "drain", this makes drain stats less useful when building a char. What are the effects of this?

Well, you'd still need Willpower for spell resistance. The tradition-specific drain attribute, though, not so much.

7) How about if a mage has no magical resources for a spell, then can use their own body as the resource? So a mage wants to cast a F6 powerbolt, drain 4S, so they immediately take 4S, no staging the drain down.

Not a bad idea, it covers what happens if a mage miscounted spell materials or simply overestimated the stock.

[DMiller]

You will probably want to remove the ability to overcast under this system. You are comparing this to guns for balance and guns do not have an option of "hey I want to do double damage on this shot".

-D

[phlapjack77]

You will probably want to remove the ability to overcast under this system. You are comparing this to guns for balance and guns do not have an option of "hey I want to do double damage on this shot".

I'd agree about not allowing overcasting when using "resources". If my brillant idea is also used for drain when there are no resources available, then I would allow it in that case. Seems very in keeping with the idea of "drain" to allow overloading your system. Blood gushes from your nose, you visibly age, etc. Overcasting with no resources would be very, very harmful, especially since there would be no staging the drain down.

[All4BigGuns]

I know that I would not... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Agreed.

"If it ain't broke..." (And it ain't)

[Jizmack]

"If it ain't broke..." (And it ain't)

This is not an attenpt at fixing anything; it's just an alternative system.

[Daier Mune]

I think it's an interesting idea, up to a point. Not to co-opt your idea, but what about this:

Casting with components allows a magician to avoid drain - mana is channeled into spell components and safely dispersed as the components are consumed. However, if a magician finds himself in a tight spot, and is without his magical gear, he can still cast his spells without the components; and suffers drain as normal. If you want to Overcast, then you have to spend components & suffer Drain.

as a mechanism for controlling a magician's power, I dono how well that'll work, but it might be an interesting experiment.

[Chance359]

this sounds a lot like disposable fetishes from previous editions. SR2 p133 describes the use of fetishes to cast spells.

A fetish-required spell is cast a 1 force rating higher point higher if a reusable fetish is used, or at 2 force rating points higher for an expendable fetish. The magician needs some physical object to cast the spell, choosing it at the time off learning the spell. This prop is a fetish, an anthropological term that means a ritual item used in "primitive magic. The magician must have a fetish in hand to use it. If the magician is weraing the fetish, he need only touch it. The fetish belongs to a specific spell, and the same one cannot be used for different spells.

Fetishes can be purchases from a talismonger, with prices depending on the spell's category. A magician cannot substitute on fetish for another, but a reusable fetish is a durable object that can be used again and again . An expendable fetish is used up or destoried when the spell is cast. In other words, the spell needs ammo that must be replaced every time.

It is possible to learn a spell requiring either an expendable or reusable fetish but not both.

Shamanic fetishes
Reusable: Drums, rattles, knives, tomahawks, spears, carved wooden bone wands, native jewelry, carvings, masks and medicine bags, pouches filled with a complex mixture of minerals, herbs, and animal parts
Expendable: Small packets of herbs, curiously shaped twigs, tufts of feathers or animal hair, small stones or crystals, crude miniature weapons, bits of bone, shells, and so on

Hermetric Fetishes
Reusable: Ornate wands (usually jeweled), rings, amulets and other jewelry, complex scrolls covered with diagrams, and such.
Expendable: small parchment talismans, chemical mixtures or potions, crystals or stones, painted charms, and so on.

[Neraph]

A variant Life Pact?