Gang warfare, with complications. Options

[FuelDrop]

Hi all.
My group has recently received a commission to stop a gang's aggressive expansion in the northern Seattle Barrens, as the Mafia is afraid they'll encroach on their territory and don't want to send their own soldiers against this unusually well-equipped gang. (The fact that we've gotten something of a reputation for doing the impossible among the mafia didn't hurt our getting the job)

We're getting paid a decent sum for the task, but the real payoff is that our mafia contact has offered us 65% of street value on all loot or salvage from the mission, and anything we want to keep they'll exchange for a newer/better-condition version.

However, there's a reason the Mafia doesn't want to send their own troops in on this: in addition to some solid infantry firepower, the gang has gone and got themselves a pimped-out Devil Rat APC, likely with full armour and smart armour in addition to some big guns. They're using it as an 'I WIN' button against the other gangs, and even our group is going to have some trouble dealing with it in a straight fight.

Naturally enough, we don't want to kill it... we want to steal it! As of right now our plan goes something like this:
1) Steal a car.
2) Armour stolen car up, give it a rigger adaption, add firing ports for our gunslingers and a mounted weapon for our Ninja (who has no hand-held firearms skills but does have gunnery. Don't ask me why).
3) Drive into enemy territory and basically go wild, car-jacking, looting, taking hostages, blowing up strongholds... anything that will demand their immediate and total attention.
4) When the Devil Rat comes on the scope our airborne assets reveal themselves, pounding it with the EMP missiles from arsenal (Zappers, as I believe they're called). These will either offline the APC entirely or just disable the crew... in theory. If neither of the above happen then our backup plan is to have some Anti-Tank missiles (From WAR!) on standby, and if worst comes to worst then we're not too proud to flee and come up with a new plan.
5) With the Devil Rat out of the picture and the local gangs coming together in an alliance (Which I've already negotiated), the new gang's progress should slow significantly.

What we need is a 6) that can completely curve-ball them and either de-claw them completely or just set them back so far that they're no longer a threat. I'm working on something involving the face and the social infiltrator approaching two different lieutenants with offers of support from some mysterious backers (opposing mysterious backers, naturally), then having the ninja sneak in and eliminate the boss with enough ambiguous evidence left behind for both sides to frame the other and thus (Hopefully) turn the gang on themselves. However, we need a plan B (and possibly C) in case that doesn't work.

Suggestions?

[Midas]

(5) seems a pretty clever curve ball to me; in fact if you tell the rival gangs the night you are gonna take out their vehicle-of-doom, they can unload their resentment and revenge in one fiery night and wipe the gang off the face of the earth.

One question: Any idea who is backing them? I would be more worried about that side of things myself, especially if they can replenish the gang's personnel and toys at will.

[FuelDrop]

One question: Any idea who is backing them? I would be more worried about that side of things myself, especially if they can replenish the gang's personnel and toys at will.

Humanis Policlub.

Fortunately, the group face is an ex-member of one gang and several members of another owe her their lives. That made getting an alliance together far easier, and after that all we needed was a corridor of safe passage through... Mafia territory. Since they were the ones hiring us, that was easily arranged (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[StealthSigma]

It seems to me that you haven't thought through what you're going to do once you've disabled the APC. It sounds like your engagement with the APC is going to be in this gang's territory and there's no plan to bring in this alliance of gangs to assist you. Once you disable the APC, it's going to be disabled for some period of time and it's probably going to be in the middle of some open area. That means your rigger, probably, is going to need to be in/on/around the APC getting it back up and running for you to steal. You can probably bet that the gang members will flood to where the APC is disabled since I doubt they would so easily let it go and that's your problem.

Now, the problem isn't with your armored up stolen car, at least not initially. The problem is for your rigger who will have to get out. He's going to be vulnerable and presumably he's also the combat driver for your team which may mean your car goes stationary (another problem). With the APC out, you will probably outgun the gang in quality of your weapons but you won't out man them in quantity. At some point they may resort to Soviet inspired human wave attacks which have a chance of overwhelming those in the car but most importantly will severely put the repairman at risk. You're basically creating a Black Hawk Down scenario for yourself where you guys are the two snipers trying to protect the downed crew. Further, I'm not sure that using zapper's to disable it is a good idea since those disable the vehicle by burning out circuit boards so it would be an extremely complex repair job. So I'm thinking you guys need to decide if you really want to steal it or destroy it.

Now, what I would do given the resources you've mentioned is setup an ambush utilizing the gangs you've allied. Then make a more trench coat plan to get in control of the APC while it's at rest without disabling it. Finally, go mohawk once you're in control over it and blow as much stuff up to get their attention good and hard on the APC and get the gangs to follow into the ambush. Basically, the gang isn't going to let you get away with taking the APC because they know it's a core piece of their influence so you can pretty much guarantee they'll try to get it back.

[FuelDrop]

You make good points... Exactly why I posted the plan for peer review in the first place.

At the moment we're still gathering intel on where the APC is going to be while at rest, and if a snatch and grab is viable then that'll be our primary role. However, at the moment it looks like finding it while it's not in action is going to be impractically difficult, hence trying to bring it into the open.
However, I agree with you that I haven't yet put enough thought into how to capture the APC after disabling it. Now that you've brought it to my attention I'm thinking that repairing it in the field is impractical at best (though if we have to all our group members can drive to varying degrees, and at least half can perform field repairs), so I'm beginning to think that some kind of armoured tow-truck/flatbed arrangement might be workable, to be brought in during the window where we've disabled the APC and hostile reinforcements haven't arrived yet. That plan is a work in progress, though, and has not been even fundamentally thought through.

Keep poking holes in my plans please, it helps make them better!

[StealthSigma]

You make good points... Exactly why I posted the plan for peer review in the first place.

At the moment we're still gathering intel on where the APC is going to be while at rest, and if a snatch and grab is viable then that'll be our primary role. However, at the moment it looks like finding it while it's not in action is going to be impractically difficult, hence trying to bring it into the open.
However, I agree with you that I haven't yet put enough thought into how to capture the APC after disabling it. Now that you've brought it to my attention I'm thinking that repairing it in the field is impractical at best (though if we have to all our group members can drive to varying degrees, and at least half can perform field repairs), so I'm beginning to think that some kind of armoured tow-truck/flatbed arrangement might be workable, to be brought in during the window where we've disabled the APC and hostile reinforcements haven't arrived yet. That plan is a work in progress, though, and has not been even fundamentally thought through.

Keep poking holes in my plans please, it helps make them better!

Okay, let's assume you stick with the disabled vehicle route and bring in a heavy duty truck to tow that sucker out. Hopefully you bring in an integrated lift rather than any of the other types. That's the easiest and fastest to operate. You're effectively driving what amounts to a Nordkapp Zugmaschine with trailer. You're going to have about a 5/20 acceleration with a 90 top speed at a -3 handling. That's pretty easy to catch if the gangers have any other types of transportation and cornering is going to be problematic for you. The good news is that you got a goodly amount of momentum in that rig.

Also, as I did some thinking, I suspect that if your goal is to keep the APC then you will probably want to avoid using the allied gangs. You may have some leverage over them now but I wouldn't count on that holding once they can see their greedy fists on that APC for themselves.

[Seriously Mike]

My plan?
1. Prepare for stealth.
2. Sneak in.
3. Steal the APC.
4. Now you can thoroughly wreck the gang's shit.

[FuelDrop]

@StealthSigma
I believe that the long term plan involves selling the APC...

I just had a thought, and I'd like to run it by you:
Swap step 5 and step six around, so that our face characters are stirring up trouble before we get the APC. Then, in theory the gang should be fighting over it, making it comparatively easy to take it afterwards. contingent, of course, on us being able to send the gang into a self-destructive spiral in the first place.

EDIT: Damn ninjas!

[StealthSigma]

I believe that the long term plan involves selling the APC...

I just had a thought, and I'd like to run it by you:
Swap step 5 and step six around, so that our face characters are stirring up trouble before we get the APC. Then, in theory the gang should be fighting over it, making it comparatively easy to take it afterwards. contingent, of course, on us being able to send the gang into a self-destructive spiral in the first place.

I think that's a worse boat than the original plan. If the other gangs come in, the APC owning gang will probably push it into action. So not only do you have to contend with hijacking it from the original gang, you have to lift it right from under the noses of the other gangs.

I still contend that if you're going to steal this APC the best time to do it is before the shit starts to fly and consequently use it to help cause that shit to fly.

[Marwynn]

It's interesting, but I'd prefer not to take on heavily armed anythings by myself or even with a team.

My suggestion would be:

1) Victimize a corp exec.
2) Make it look like it was the gang.
3) Wait.


Now, I'm sure you have a corp exec in mind. A Johnson that screwed you over, or some vindictive dude you've run into. Or even just some sleazoid. The point is, you make the gang well known. Force the Star to actually gun for the gang themselves, considering they're now attacking SINners and corporate citizens.

Or sneak in and steal the APC for yourself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[FuelDrop]

As noted earlier, the gang has gone to extraordinary (and considering the number of runners in the barrens, thoroughly justified) lengths to hide the APC's location when not actively in use, making stealing it without drawing it out first... challenging at best. Also, Lone Star's recent attempt to tame the barrens (in our game's timeline, which deviates somewhat from standard) is what left the main gangs weak enough to be usurped by the newcomers (possibly intentionally, given the star's pro-human leanings and the fact that this gang has Humanis Policlub backing...). It would take a LOT to make them go back in, in force, so soon after their last fiasco.

EDIT: Not saying that it's impossible to bait them in... just that it'd probably be a lot like hard work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
also, bringing in outsiders reduces the amount of salvage we can pick up, which is almost the entirety of our paycheck (part of the deal is high resale value and an assured buyer for anything scavenged on this mission. be a shame to waste that offer).

[Marwynn]

Hmm... methinks a Lone Star higher-up would need to be targeted as the cause of retaliation. But hey, that's just my take on things, I'd really rather rely on people's baser instincts than uniting for a cause. With this gang smashed, and the other gangs scattered, you could start isolating the gangs one by one and removing them. Take over the area yourselves, or hand a gang or three over to the mafia as low-level grunts.

There are LAWs in Arsenal, I believe. But it could be War. Cheap and useful. I'd also make an excuse to try and grab a Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle just for fun. But yeah... that's probably not going to happen.

What's their Magic support like? If it's Humanis-backed, they'd be slightly light on Awakened members. So a few days' worth of harassment with the Accident power would be hilarious, if you can get the APC to come out and get it followed.

[FuelDrop]

There are LAWs in Arsenal, I believe. But it could be War. Cheap and useful. I'd also make an excuse to try and grab a Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle just for fun. But yeah... that's probably not going to happen.

What's their Magic support like? If it's Humanis-backed, they'd be slightly light on Awakened members. So a few days' worth of harassment with the Accident power would be hilarious, if you can get the APC to come out and get it followed.

I'd be more inclined to use the MAW (The LAW's big brother), as the target is very heavily armoured. The Thunderstruck is also something I've been dying to see in action since I first read 'AP=1/2-4'. Unfortunately... no-one in the group has heavy weapons. Meaning that almost all our heavy support comes from either drones or mounted guns. Which means that we don't get the joy of using a Thunderstruck for its true purpose IE: Making the wielder look insanely badass. Why waste that on a drone?

Ironically, our mix for this mission contains no spellcasters of our own, so we're technically at a disadvantage magically if they have even one mage. Even if our group mage was onboard for this run we wouldn't be getting any accidents... He believes he's a Jedi Knight, and thus doesn't summon spirits. He still can, mechanically, he just doesn't.

[StealthSigma]

Hmm... methinks a Lone Star higher-up would need to be targeted as the cause of retaliation. But hey, that's just my take on things, I'd really rather rely on people's baser instincts than uniting for a cause. With this gang smashed, and the other gangs scattered, you could start isolating the gangs one by one and removing them. Take over the area yourselves, or hand a gang or three over to the mafia as low-level grunts.

There are LAWs in Arsenal, I believe. But it could be War. Cheap and useful. I'd also make an excuse to try and grab a Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle just for fun. But yeah... that's probably not going to happen.

What's their Magic support like? If it's Humanis-backed, they'd be slightly light on Awakened members. So a few days' worth of harassment with the Accident power would be hilarious, if you can get the APC to come out and get it followed.

I think that you might have a problem with trying to pin something like what you suggested on a bunch of gangers. You have to make it look like it was gangers that did it and not professionals. You have to use the kind of equipment those gangers have available. Otherwise if you stretch the imagination too much it might just get written off making the entire effort moot.

[Marwynn]

I'm sure there'd be difficulties in pulling it off. But by now, the runners should have an idea of how this gang operates. There has to be some human gangers in the Barrens as well.

Add in footage of the attack leaked to the Matrix, and they'll face enough pressure to do something about the Devil Rats (that's what I'm calling them now). Lone Star/Knight Errant doesn't have to believe they did it, just be forced to do something about it.

I'd be more inclined to use the MAW (The LAW's big brother), as the target is very heavily armoured. The Thunderstruck is also something I've been dying to see in action since I first read 'AP=1/2-4'. Unfortunately... no-one in the group has heavy weapons. Meaning that almost all our heavy support comes from either drones or mounted guns. Which means that we don't get the joy of using a Thunderstruck for its true purpose IE: Making the wielder look insanely badass. Why waste that on a drone?

Ironically, our mix for this mission contains no spellcasters of our own, so we're technically at a disadvantage magically if they have even one mage. Even if our group mage was onboard for this run we wouldn't be getting any accidents... He believes he's a Jedi Knight, and thus doesn't summon spirits. He still can, mechanically, he just doesn't.

Good point, it's best to wield the Thunderstruck and look utterly badass. Is it a Heavy Weapon? Thought it required an Exotic Skill. But, yes that Errata with the half armour then apply the AP? Oh my giddy aunt.

+1 to your Jedi teammate. Awesome.

[StealthSigma]

Good point, it's best to wield the Thunderstruck and look utterly badass. Is it a Heavy Weapon? Thought it required an Exotic Skill. But, yes that Errata with the half armour then apply the AP? Oh my giddy aunt.

+1 to your Jedi teammate. Awesome.

Yes. The Thunderstruck is an Assault Cannon and thus a Heavy Weapon.
Yes. The Thunderstruck halves armor then applies a further -4 AP.

[Seriously Mike]

Still, an APC is an APC. It's a huge heavy pig of a vehicle. Not many places you can hide it at. If you're sneaky enough, you can do enough recon to figure out where they may be keeping it and find the right spot.
Seriously, you have it easier than my players. They have to find a crate of explosives in one of ten self-storage units scattered throughout half the Downtown/East LA.

[FuelDrop]

Well, they say that no plan survives contact with the enemy...
In this case, it didn't even survive contact with my allies.
In spite of my objections the group elected to go with a plan that revolved around car-bombing the HP's strongholds... In spite of the fact that this was a high-impact, low threat tactic: High impact because it kills and wounds a lot of people and destoys a lot of property, low threat as it doesn't actually present a target for them to hit with their trump card... which was kind of the point of the whole operation.

Fortunately we got caught up with the whole "jacking cars to turn into carbombs" part of the operation, which (while it hasn't yet brought the APC to us) has at least given them a target that they can hit with the hammer of brute force. Our work (Jacking a total of 4 gang-owned cars in one day, wrecking a good 6 more and eight bikes on top of that) has put them on the defensive for a bit, which has bought us time.

I also managed to sell them on getting a tow-truck... then promptly claimed no part in the endeavor as they decided to steal it from BUBBA THE LOVE TROLL. *Facepalm*
I mean seriously, who in their right mind steals from Bubba the frikking love troll?!?

Anyway, the point is that things have gotten interesting, and that my party discarded all my planning and your advice out of hand in favor of explosions. I figured that all those that contributed would appreciate the update.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Make double-sure the tow truck you stole is strong enough to tow a Devil Rat. It's not like towing a family sedan; the bare minimum that your tow truck will have to be capable of towing is a tractor-trailer's tractor to even think of towing the Devil Rat.


Now, you're not gonna be able to escape the hostile gang once you do this. So my advice is don't even try. Drive your stolen tow truck to a street shop, pay to get it Armor 20*, and pull the heist. Let the Humanis fraggers chase you, shooting ineffectually at your armor, and lead them into ambush after ambush; all those guys with scores to settle? Lead 'em through those guy's terrain, and have your kill-car ready to come in hot if the bad guys get enough cojones in one place to break through your pals.


Now, have you thought about where you're gonna need to be at the end? You're gonna need a huge damn garage, and you're going to want it to to be a faraday cage, so the Devil Rat can't squeal home when you have it in place. Now, once you do get it, be sure to strip out all the electronics - the last thing you need is for some combat program to go live the moment you un-freeze it from the EMP shocks, load the gun, and start firing inside your garage.

((Draining the fuel tanks, disconnecting the batteries, and unloading all the weapons are obviously also good ideas.)


Good luck. Have fun. And remember to watch your back.


*With any luck, the Armor 20 you buy the tow truck will also serve as a peace offering to Bubba the Love Troll. Otherwise you may just have to geek him and keep the wrecker.

[kzt]

Get KE or LS to kill the APC for you. They really are not big fans of well organized and heavily armed expansionist street gangs.

[FuelDrop]

Get KE or LS to kill the APC for you. They really are not big fans of well organized and heavily armed expansionist street gangs.

They have better PR than us. Specifically, they are apparently not a gang at all but merely a 'group of concerned citizens working hard to better the neighborhood and constantly hounded by those too greedy and jealous to allow the improvement of the community'. Apparently they forgot to mention the tank, tacticals and assault rifles they were using to 'improve' the neighborhood... must just be an oversight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Oh, and I have my doubts that the Star is going to care that much about a Humanis gang doing a little ethnic cleansing in the barrens... particularly as they don't seem like they're going to spill over any time soon.

@ShadowDragon8685: Good advice. I believe that the group made sure that the truck would be able to tow the APC, and that the player with Bubba as a contact is planning on keeping him too drunk to notice that the truck is gone until he returns it... not a plan I have that much confidence with, to be honest. So far my suggestions on armouring up the vehicles have been met with a surprising amount of resistance (mainly due to the amount of time it would take)... I never thought it'd be so hard to convince runners to put something between them and bullets!
As to what we're doing once the Devil Rat is in our possession... we're pretty much going to take it over to our Mafia contact, who's the one that's paying us to do the job and has already agreed to take it off our hands afterwards. all the guns are manual so we're not particularly worried about some long-dormant pilot waking up and starting shooting. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but considering the telling off i got for overthinking the mission last session I'm just going to stay out of the line of fire and if they do start shooting then all i'm going to say is 'told you so'.

[Ryu]

Fortunately we got caught up with the whole "jacking cars to turn into carbombs" part of the operation, which (while it hasn't yet brought the APC to us) has at least given them a target that they can hit with the hammer of brute force. Our work (Jacking a total of 4 gang-owned cars in one day, wrecking a good 6 more and eight bikes on top of that) has put them on the defensive for a bit, which has bought us time.

I also managed to sell them on getting a tow-truck... then promptly claimed no part in the endeavor as they decided to steal it from BUBBA THE LOVE TROLL. *Facepalm*
I mean seriously, who in their right mind steals from Bubba the frikking love troll?!?

Anyway, the point is that things have gotten interesting, and that my party discarded all my planning and your advice out of hand in favor of explosions. I figured that all those that contributed would appreciate the update.

Explosives are always Plan A, no matter what... You have been striking the gang in a way the APC can´t stop. Well done regarding your mission.

As for stealing the APC: It has a 50k¥ base pricetag. By all means steal a few cars instead. Easier to get, easier to sell. The tow-truck idea can be cool, but don´t miss the opportunity to get some high-power weaponry. At armor 1/2 -4, you don´t need much skill to use a Gauss Rifle. Someone with solid Agility and Smartlink should be able to hit a tank that does not see the attack coming.

[FuelDrop]

our current intel says that a LAW or MAW is all that we really need to kill it. However, our group is nothing if not mercenary and is trying to squeeze as many nuyen out of the mission as possible. Plus, being able to say we jacked a tank is great street cred.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

our current intel says that a LAW or MAW is all that we really need to kill it. However, our group is nothing if not mercenary and is trying to squeeze as many nuyen out of the mission as possible. Plus, being able to say we jacked a tank is great street cred.

Heh... A Devil Rat is not really a Tank... But if it salves the ego, go with it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[FuelDrop]

Heh... A Devil Rat is not really a Tank... But if it salves the ego, go with it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This is bragging. By this time next month it'll be a stonewall... in two months it'll be a couple of stonewalls...
considering that at least two of our characters have the compulsive (braggart) negative quality, I think that capturing the APC is going to be important to them.