Mechwarrior: Online, Calling all Mechwarriors! (I know theres at least a few of us here Options

[Tech_Rat]

So, getting close to open beta, and the games is looking pretty good so far. I'm just surprised nobody here has mentioned it yet.

Http://www.mwomercs.com

[_Pax._]

I got a Closed Beta invite a couple weeks ago, but I've been busy with Borderlands 2. And will, starting next week, be busy with both Dishonored and XCOM:EU.

[Sengir]

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...0&start=100 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And it USED to look pretty good, until...well, for now I'll just say don't get your hopes too high...

[faultline]

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...0&start=100 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And it USED to look pretty good, until...well, for now I'll just say don't get your hopes too high...

Well first of all there were several games being discussed in that thread so I'm not sure of exactally which one your refering too, but MWO is unbelievably awesome.



I've been in beta for about 2 months and now that the NDA for it is lifted I can talk about it.

I could talk generalities, but Im sure some people questions they would rather have answered, so go ahead and post them and I'll get to them ASAP.

[Stahlseele]

the NDA has been canceled by the way, you can be as exact and asinine about that bullshit game as you want as of now . .

[Sengir]

now that the NDA for it is lifted I can talk about it.

Heh, why didn't you say that?

So, this is them devs on their intended economy model:

This system has been tuned significantly and now acts closer to our intended goals. There are still some known issues associated with RNR [Repain & Rearm] that will be addressed over the coming weeks. Players will earn between 50-150,000 CB per match after repairs using Founder or Purchased BattleMechs, and around 40,000 CB using Trial BattleMechs. A Commando will take approximately 45 matches or 4.5 hours of match time to save up for using a Trial BattleMech without a Premium Account.

That was the 9/18 patch, the next patch increased earnings by ~50% but the general principle remains the same: You have to spend dozens of games in one of the "Trial Mechs" with their extremely crappy (fixed) stock configs for a Commando, god forbid you want to ride something frivolous as a Hunchback.


Another part that sucks badly is the hardpoint system. Apart from the standard slots and tonnage, you are also restricted by how many weapons of each type (energy, ballistic, missile) the stock config has in each section. So if the stock config has a Large Laser in the arm, that arm can mount only one laser weapon, even if you had slots and tonnage for half a dozen Small Lasers. Or vice versa, as long as there is a machine gun in the side torso off the shelf, you can put a Gauss Rifle there (but not two Machine guns)

[faultline]

the NDA has been canceled by the way, you can be as exact and asinine about that bullshit game as you want as of now . .

Asinine, Bullshit.....I take it you have problems with the game. What exactally what are they?

Heh, why didn't you say that?

So, this is them devs on their intended economy model:

This system has been tuned significantly and now acts closer to our intended goals. There are still some known issues associated with RNR [Repain & Rearm] that will be addressed over the coming weeks. Players will earn between 50-150,000 CB per match after repairs using Founder or Purchased BattleMechs, and around 40,000 CB using Trial BattleMechs. A Commando will take approximately 45 matches or 4.5 hours of match time to save up for using a Trial BattleMech without a Premium Account.

That was the 9/18 patch, the next patch increased earnings by ~50% but the general principle remains the same: You have to spend dozens of games in one of the "Trial Mechs" with their extremely crappy (fixed) stock configs for a Commando, god forbid you want to ride something frivolous as a Hunchback.

the 45 matches or 4.5 hours is calculated at the minimum c-bills you could earn a game ie a loss, winning your matches will make this time significantly less.

Another part that sucks badly is the hardpoint system. Apart from the standard slots and tonnage, you are also restricted by how many weapons of each type (energy, ballistic, missile) the stock config has in each section. So if the stock config has a Large Laser in the arm, that arm can mount only one laser weapon, even if you had slots and tonnage for half a dozen Small Lasers. Or vice versa, as long as there is a machine gun in the side torso off the shelf, you can put a Gauss Rifle there (but not two Machine guns)

I will agree that the hardpoint system is not the best but if they went with similar rules to TT crit locations and allow you to place anything anywhere it would be worse. The only reason the Hardpoint system is there is mostly to for mech balancing. Besides the only reason most people bitch about the hardpoint system is mostly because of the CAT-K2.

[Sengir]

the 45 matches or 4.5 hours is calculated at the minimum c-bills you could earn a game ie a loss, winning your matches will make this time significantly less.

Founder, huh? Because you obviously never played with the stock mechs
Winning a match in a trial mech nets you 25,000 CBills (The regular 100k*0.25 because you are using a trial), plus a bit for kills and damage caused. So quite the contrary, the calculation is extremely optimistic

The poor economy also has a little side effect, teamraping public games is standard fare since it's the only viable way of making money...

The only reason the Hardpoint system is there is mostly to for mech balancing.

And since it fails badly at that there is no reason for keeping it. If the fact that a mech has two machine guns makes it better than an Atlas, you are doing something wrong.

[bannockburn]

I'm making about 100k plus in a Raven. Per Match. If I get destroyed. AND loose. So yeah, that's 100 games for an Atlas, in the most pessimistic calculation. Get over it, there needs to be some motivation for longer play. Economy is fine, as it is now.
I like the game so far. It needs fine tuning, but in general it looks good.
The hardpoint system is fine, as well. I like it better than ALL THE OMNIMECHS! Much better, tbh. And what do you mean, 2MGs are better than an Atlas? Did you play lately? ^^

[faultline]

Founder, huh? Because you obviously never played with the stock mechs
Winning a match in a trial mech nets you 25,000 CBills (The regular 100k*0.25 because you are using a trial), plus a bit for kills and damage caused. So quite the contrary, the calculation is extremely optimistic

The poor economy also has a little side effect, teamraping public games is standard fare since it's the only viable way of making money...

Yes I am a founder, and the bonus does help, but at the same time the repair cost for the mechs does get up there especially if you upgrade to advanced tech like xl engines, so I have had to grind in the trial mechs before to earn enough to repair my founders mechs.

The teamraping should eventually go away as they update the matchmaking system which they've stated is not even close to what its supposed to be.

And since it fails badly at that there is no reason for keeping it. If the fact that a mech has two machine guns makes it better than an Atlas, you are doing something wrong.

I agree in its current incarnation the hardpoint system is flawed and would be in favor of just going to an unrestricted system ala TT

And its not the fact that it has 2 machine guns, Its the placement of the 2 ballistic points that's the issue since they are set in the left and right torsos people have been exploiting that and mounting gauss rifles in both slots. I'm with people that consider this a problem


Remember Its still a closed beta and they've not even hinted at open beta yet, they've just done away with the NDA.

[Sengir]

I'm making about 100k plus in a Raven. Per Match.

So when not using a trial mech you don't have the problems of trial mechs. Thanks for the extremely irrelevant info, captain obvious...

And what do you mean, 2MGs are better than an Atlas? Did you play lately? ^^

The K2's two MGs mean it can mount two gauss rifles. Which in itself would not be so bad, but if a heavy is the ONLY mech capable of mounting two Gauss there is obviously something wrong. And if that ability is due to the fact that said mech normally mounts two MGs it gets downright ridiculous.



And before you say "it's only beta", the hardpoint system is a fundamental aspect of the game that won't be swapped out and the economy is how the devs want it to be.

[bannockburn]

So when not using a trial mech you don't have the problems of trial mechs. Thanks for the extremely irrelevant info, captain obvious...

Captain Obvious to Commander Pleasegetit: It's not a founder's Raven. It also mounts a 300XL engine which is in comparison extremely expensive to repair. Your trial mech (where you can drive an Atlas for free!) gets about 80% of a normal mech but has NO repair costs at all. So yeah, you gain just about the same money. Exception is when I drive my founder's Atlas. This one let's me earn WAY more money, if I were so inclined, but for obvious (!) reasons, I did not use that as an example.

re: Gaussapult 'problem'
I don't say it's only beta. I say: onetrickpony lol. I've killed more gaussapults with just about every mech type I've driven so far than have killed me. So, let em come and l2p.

[Sengir]

OK, let's recap:
- I say the lacking income from trial mechs is a problem
- You respond "I don't have a problem in a Raven"
- I call you out on the fact that the Raven is not a trial mech and hence generates a totally different income
- you respond:

It's not a founder's Raven

Do I smell homo sapiens ingentis, or just illiteracy?

[bannockburn]

Do you simply not understand, that there is NO difference in income in an expensive XL engine fitted raven that gets DESTROYED and a trial mech that has NO repair costs AT ALL?
Nothing to do with illiteracy, just with a failure to understand the connection, on your part. Nice try with the insults, btw. I would take a shower, if I'd smell something like that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You don't like the game. I get it. May have to do with the fact that you fail at it. But no sweat, no one's forcing you to like it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[bannockburn]

To expand on the concept in a friendlier tone:
A commando (admittedly not the funnest mech) costs 1,8mil C-Bills.
Assuming, you're using a trial mech (Jenner, Hunchback, Catapult with PPCs or Atlas atm) and have a horrible losing streak, you still get to ride in the weight class of your choice for about 18 games. that's 3h of work, in average. You get 75k per loss (guaranteed), and if you do anything at all right, you earn money for spotting, for destroying stuff, for capping bases. All things you can do in trial mechs, without problems. In average 100k for a lost match.
The only difference is that you do not earn XP during that time.

If you owned, like me, an expensive piece of technology and lose, you earn about the same amount of money for a lost match, because you need to include the repair and rearming costs.

So, there is actually no difference apart from the timesink factor. Oh wait. You play that game for free. And you still complain?
Personally, I dislike the instant gratification mindset, and prefer it the way it is. You need to actually do something before you can bring out the big toys. But in all this time you ear experience as a player and will be able to use those expensive toys better.
Take modern FPS games, you need to unlock all those addons, even if you paid for it. This is called motivation over time. The developers of a game want you to play it not lay it aside. If you bought BF3 for 50€, you will be disappointed if you have no target at all to play for.
In case of a F2P (not pay2win) game, they want you to play it even more and longer, because you only generate revenue if you actually buy stuff. If you're not so inclined, you'll have to play longer. Fair game, IMO, but if it's not for you, that's also fair.

[Stahlseele]

I am a founder too.
i had such high hopes for this game, that i actually went and got the 120$ package.
and i find that with each patch, the suck goes up more and more.
the net-code is horrible.
the mech-lab is horrible.
the gui out of combat is horrible.
it takes more power to play than it has ANY RIGHT TO DO!
it's based on the fragging Crysis 2 Engine. The CryEngine3.
And in Crysis2, both the Net-Code and the graphical power were MUCH BETTER!
I have a pretty strong System here, and it still gives me 20 to 40 FPS maximum.
In Crysis2 i get 60 to 80 FPS.
The content is also sorely lacking.
Only what? 4 or 5 maps by now?

MWO is, in my eyes, A CHEAP COPY OF WORLD OF TANKS WITH MECHS!
I won't even give it the honour of calling it a copy of MWLL.
Because a made by fans MOD for Crysis1/Warhead looks and plays better than a premium game for frags sake!

[Chimera]

I signed up for the Founder access. I didn't mean to but suddenly my credit card was in my hand and well, there it goes.

I will agree that the economy does need a little bit of work, but I think its a helluva lot of fun and I'm all for paying as much (or as little) for a game as I want. I've played mostly lights and mediums thus far, and I've been having as much fun, if not more, than every other incarnation of a Battlemech simulator (with the exception of the Virtual World pod).

[bannockburn]

I hated MWLL, and love this game, so I guess our priorities are different (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
I can't say anything about WoT, but I prefer stompy robots over treads and F2P with completely optional payment over pay2win (yay gold ammo ^^).

My gaming system is kind of old by now and it runs fine at high details with about 60fps average, just needs long to boot up the (not very pretty, but still usable) mechlab interface.
Netcode is getting better lately, so this is obviously a priority for PGI.
Lacking content and UI are, in my eyes a beta issue. I'll be disappointed if they haven't fixed that at release, but for now I'm content with what it offers.
Maybe you would have been better advised if you waited for the final game, but I see where you're coming from.

[_Pax._]

And its not the fact that it has 2 machine guns, Its the placement of the 2 ballistic points that's the issue since they are set in the left and right torsos people have been exploiting that and mounting gauss rifles in both slots. I'm with people that consider this a problem

It sounds to me, like what they need to do is this: rate each gun for how many "points" it's worth. Then, exchange "1 hardpoint of Y weapon class" for "X points of Y weapon class". (And maybe also let you pay double points, to put in a different weapon class).

IOW, picture it this way: a Small Laser is 1 point; a Medium Laser is 2 points; a Large Laser is 4 points. Going ER or Pulse with any of them, is +1 points ...

Small, 1pt
Small ER, 2pts
Small Pulse, 2pts
Medium, 2pts
Medium ER, 3pts
Medium Pulse, 3pts
Large, 4pts
Large ER, 5pts
Large Pulse, 5pts

Do similar with the Ballistic and Missile weapons.

Missiles? 1pt per 2 SRMS, or 2pts per 5 LRMs. 8 points for an Arrow4 (as it was always identical to an LRM-20).

Ballistic weapons? 1pt for a MG. 2pts for an AC5, +2pts for every 5-point increase. +50% for an LBX or Ultra version.

...

So you want to replace that Large Laser with Mediums? Sure, two Mediums is as many points as one Large. Or you could put in four Small lasers if you want.

Swap out that AC-20 for an LBX-15? Well, you're a point short there (8 for the AC, 9 for the LBX) but if you can strip out a MG too, you're golden.

Change those three LRM-10's for ER Medium lasers? Well, now, an ER Med L normally takes 3 points; cross-fitting it into a Missile hardpoint will double that to 6 each. Those LRM-10s are only worth 4 points each, so ... you can only get TWO of the lasers, for all three of the missiles.

...

Poof. Balance (with some fine-tuning and polishing needed, naturally).

[bannockburn]

The mechs also mutate magically into OmniMechs, Pax (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
I do like where you're going with this, but I still like the idea of a ballistics hardpoint only being able to mount ballistics weapons.

[X-Kalibur]

The mechs also mutate magically into OmniMechs, Pax (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
I do like where you're going with this, but I still like the idea of a ballistics hardpoint only being able to mount ballistics weapons.

You mean exactly like MW2-4?

Because in TT you can fill your slots however you like if you're doing a custom mech.

[Tech_Rat]

I do like Pax's idea on the point system, without the pseudo onnimech aspect. Keep the ballistics in a ballistic. Don't allow energy weapons in a missile, etc.

My biggest complaint is that the Raven(besides using the same model on both the 1 and 4) is that it just feels too tall.

[Sengir]

Assuming, you're using a trial mech (Jenner, Hunchback, Catapult with PPCs or Atlas atm) and have a horrible losing streak, you still get to ride in the weight class of your choice for about 18 games. that's 3h of work, in average. You get 75k per loss (guaranteed), and if you do anything at all right, you earn money for spotting, for destroying stuff, for capping bases. All things you can do in trial mechs, without problems. In average 100k for a lost match.
The only difference is that you do not earn XP during that time.

Wow, you really have no idea...and didn't read what I wrote a few postings up. Trial mechs earn 25% of the normal income. And except for the Catapult, they are nearly unusable.

[bannockburn]

Wow, you have no idea.
When was the last time you actually played instead of just ranting?

Trials Mechs receive 80% of these values or 72,000-92,000 up from 36,000, a 100%~ increase in rewards.

So yeah. I have an idea. I've also USED trial mechs, before buying new ones, even if I have MC, to get a feel for the loadout. And I've found that I exceed these values lately, because the salvage value has also been increased. As I said, in general 100k PLUS, even when losing. NO difference when using the pimped out Raven OR a trial Hunchback. Those are numbers from _yesterday_. Now please stop pulling random numbers from months old patch notes and try to get it that they tuned the economy since then.

[lorechaser]

I signed up for the Founder access. I didn't mean to but suddenly my credit card was in my hand and well, there it goes.

I will agree that the economy does need a little bit of work, but I think its a helluva lot of fun and I'm all for paying as much (or as little) for a game as I want. I've played mostly lights and mediums thus far, and I've been having as much fun, if not more, than every other incarnation of a Battlemech simulator (with the exception of the Virtual World pod).

This exactly. It's. closed beta, so I expected unoptimised graphics, some ugly UI and balance issues. But when I hop in my Dragon and roll out with my lance, it's awesome. We're running a combo - one missile boat, one badass Atlas or Awesome, a couple light to medium, and me in the Dragon. I usually guard the missile boat for a while, the head in to take out softer targets. If no one comes after the boat, I just run around shooting stuff.

For $30, I got three mechs and all the gear I wanted. That's a fair deal to me.

[Sengir]

Wow, you have no idea.
When was the last time you actually played

Last week, so I partially have to apologize because I didn't get the last economy update, thus my claim of only making ~40k a game is as realistic as your idea of a newbie making >100k in a lost match while riding a trial mech.

(And for the record, even if it were 200k per game the economy model would still be bad. People get hooked by giving them small treats with promise of more to come, not by promising the chance of making the first minor after a few painful hours of play.)

[_Pax._]

Bugger, another $60 down the tubes ... as I join the ranks of the Elite (with a Catapult).

EDIT TO ADD: .... and I'm an idiot. I should have tried the beta before putting money down on the game. I fear I have made a sixty dollar mistake ... because with a learning curve that steep, I just know I'm not going to slog through loss after loss after loss, just to learn how to MAYBE begin learning how to play.

Bugger. :'(

[faultline]

So much negativity for a free to play game that is still in beta

I've played every incarnation of the Mechwarrior games besides Mechassault (I dont do xbox), I've even played in the old Virtual world pods (3.0 and Tesla) and by far this
is the best game I've seen. Yes it has is issues but I can look past them all and still have a good time playing.

I'm sorry for those of you you are dissapointed in MWO, and cant get past the issues of the beta and have fun regardless.

For those of you that are enjoying themselves in MWO my callsign is "Mr Sockpuppet" drop me a friend invite on the forums and in game and maybe we can get together and play sometime.

[CanRay]

I'm still stuck on the Trial Mechs, so can't comment much on anything...

"mongoose" if anyone cares.

[_Pax._]

just to be clear: I'm not saying MWO is a bad game. Just, I think it's not a good choice of game for me, and I probably should have tried the beta before dropping sixty dollars on the game.

[faultline]

The learning curve isnt that steep Pax, just keep playing you'll get the hang of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

You want a GOOD Mech-Game?
Try the MWLL Mod. Sadly, the Player-Count is VERY LOW.

[Sengir]

So much negativity for a free to play game that is still in beta

Being F2P does not make a game immune to criticism, it still has to compete in the same market. Beta stage means some things are still being worked on, but if something has been around unchanged since the early beta (the slot system) or even is the stated intent of the devs (tying new players to the trial mechs for hours) chances are it will stay more or less unchanged.

I've played every incarnation of the Mechwarrior games besides Mechassault (I dont do xbox)

Me too, and so have 99.9% percent of the people on the beta. But to be successful the game would need a far broader reach than that, which it currently fails at badly. That's also the reason why I don't see myself shelling out for it, I don't put money into something that I believe will wither soon after release

[StealthSigma]

The teamraping should eventually go away as they update the matchmaking system which they've stated is not even close to what its supposed to be.

Excuse me while I go laugh. Matchmaking systems can be gamed, easily. If you believe otherwise, go ask Blizzard to provide info on how much of problem they have with matchmaking where people willfully drop themselves into lower brackets to roflstomp people worse than them.

[faultline]

Excuse me while I go laugh. Matchmaking systems can be gamed, easily. If you believe otherwise, go ask Blizzard to provide info on how much of problem they have with matchmaking where people willfully drop themselves into lower brackets to roflstomp people worse than them.

Yes they can be gamed, I know that and I'm not saying they wont be I'm just saying that the matchmaking as we know it now is just a basic matchmaking system so they can have a functional beta, its not even set to differentiate between any significant data atm its just whoever is queuing up for a match currently (much like a WoW battlegrounds) which is why you see premade teams stomping pugs eventually that wont happen when they implement their real matchmaking system.


Its also easier to game the matchmaking system with less people, we're talking about a game here that will eventually be set for 12 vs 12, i'm not saying it wont be done just much harder.

And btw Blizzard doesn't really care, if they did they'd do something about all the hacking and gold sellers, and all the other problems too. Blizzard just hasn't been the same company since being bought by Activision.

[Fabe]

I think the next change to the match maker is going to simply be separating pre-made team from teams made up of random players since that has been the main complaint about the matchmaker in the beta forums.

[X-Kalibur]

Yes they can be gamed, I know that and I'm not saying they wont be I'm just saying that the matchmaking as we know it now is just a basic matchmaking system so they can have a functional beta, its not even set to differentiate between any significant data atm its just whoever is queuing up for a match currently (much like a WoW battlegrounds) which is why you see premade teams stomping pugs eventually that wont happen when they implement their real matchmaking system.


Its also easier to game the matchmaking system with less people, we're talking about a game here that will eventually be set for 12 vs 12, i'm not saying it wont be done just much harder.

And btw Blizzard doesn't really care, if they did they'd do something about all the hacking and gold sellers, and all the other problems too. Blizzard just hasn't been the same company since being bought by Activision.

They weren't fixing those problems before Activision either, to be fair.

[Halinn]

Personally, I think that it's just become a more visible problem with Blizzard games, due to the markets becoming larger so it's more profitable for gold sellers etc. to sell stuff in their games.

[Stahlseele]

MWLL Page is back up, kinda, there were some problems.
If you have a computer that can run it and own Crysis Warhead/Crysis Wars(The Multiplayer-Part), i advise in checking MWLL out.
If you actually LIKE MWO . . well, there's no helping you in my eyes, but a good chance that you might LOVE MWLL even more.

[Stahlseele]

MWLL Page is completely back up again.
Sadly, still low player count.
But new toys!

[CanRay]

I was finally able to afford my own mech. I'm so proud. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Stahlseele]

?

[ggodo]

CanRay, Is it Awesome?

[CanRay]

CanRay, Is it Awesome?

No, I couldn't afford one of those. Raven RVN-4X, with some customizations.

[Fabe]

No, I couldn't afford one of those. Raven RVN-4X, with some customizations.

Nice,so far I've managed to save enough to buy two commandos.I would have kept saving for something bigger rather then get the second com but this was just before we all though open beta was going to be on the 16th so was kind of just screwing around before the wipe.

[Stahlseele]

No, I couldn't afford one of those. Raven RVN-4X, with some customizations.

hmm, fitting choice somehow O.o

[X-Kalibur]

He was really hoping for a CL4P-TP.

[CanRay]

hmm, fitting choice somehow O.o

How so?

He was really hoping for a CL4P-TP.

Not really. Can you imagine riding on the top of one of those when everyone else has 50-foot tall mechs?

[Stahlseele]

The Raven, isn't that up there in canuckistan iniun mythology the image(or at least one of them) of the trickster god?
And untill i read up on the 4x variant i thought it was one of the usual backstabbing täuschen tarnen verpissen ravens.
Seeing how you can be a bit of a devious mind, it would have been fitting for you to be in one of the electronic monsters.

[StealthSigma]

How so?Not really. Can you imagine riding on the top of one of those when everyone else has 50-foot tall mechs?

I was thinking of the final boss from Claptrap's New Robot Rebellion.

[Stahlseele]

Furthermore:
Try MWLL if you can.
Playing a BA is surprisingly fun!

[almost normal]

Raven is one of those mechs that's great in roleplaying, but bleh elsewhere.

Of course jumping is also pretty poorly handled in the online games. Jump 10 hexes and you're nearly impossible to hit. Have 10 jump jets on a mech in Mechwarrior and you might as well upgrade your life insurance policy now.

[Fabe]

Raven is one of those mechs that's great in roleplaying, but bleh elsewhere.

Of course jumping is also pretty poorly handled in the online games. Jump 10 hexes and you're nearly impossible to hit. Have 10 jump jets on a mech in Mechwarrior and you might as well upgrade your life insurance policy now.

that'ss kind of funny since right now there is a thread in the beta forums complaining about JJ causing lag and its abuse by pilots.

[KarmaInferno]

I'm still stuck on the Trial Mechs, so can't comment much on anything...

"mongoose" if anyone cares.

PerfectTommy here.

I seem to run mostly Hunchbacks for some reason.




-k

[_Pax._]

Haven't played in a week or two, but I favor my Awesome. Wish I'd taken that as my Founder Mech, instead of the Catapult; I can't find decent team-mates to play spotter for my LRMs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

May have to fire the thing up again, see what developments have happend since I last playd "how quickly can I get blown up". Also, remind myself what my in-game callsign is, so I can share it with you lot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[_Pax._]

Okay, no, it's official: this game is a pile of shit.

I logged in, tried my best, oh hey I got defeated, no problem, wait a few and try again ... right?

Wrong. That defeat utterly destroyed the entire friggin' ENGINE. And I can't afford a replacement. Which means, I can't drive the mech I spent MC to buy. I can't drive the only mech I don't completely suck with ('cause at least I can usually get A kill, and several assists, in most matches - or did, while it still had a goddamned engine). Unless, of course, I want to spend real cash to be able to play again.

Screw this noise. >_< Not only is it "pay to win", it's even pay to lose.

/uninstall

[Tanegar]

Okay, no, it's official: this game is a pile of shit.

I logged in, tried my best, oh hey I got defeated, no problem, wait a few and try again ... right?

Wrong. That defeat utterly destroyed the entire friggin' ENGINE. And I can't afford a replacement. Which means, I can't drive the mech I spent MC to buy. I can't drive the only mech I don't completely suck with ('cause at least I can usually get A kill, and several assists, in most matches - or did, while it still had a goddamned engine). Unless, of course, I want to spend real cash to be able to play again.

Screw this noise. >_< Not only is it "pay to win", it's even pay to lose.

/uninstall

What. Wait. Are you telling me - seriously telling me - that if your 'Mech becomes unusable and you don't have the in-game currency to fix it... you just can't play? Like, ever again? Unless you spend real-world currency?

Yeah, I am never buying this game.

[lorechaser]

What. Wait. Are you telling me - seriously telling me - that if your 'Mech becomes unusable and you don't have the in-game currency to fix it... you just can't play? Like, ever again? Unless you spend real-world currency?

Yeah, I am never buying this game.

That particular mech becomes unusable. You would have to use another mech you purchased, or one of the 4 "trial" mechs that are always available, don't cost repair and reload, and earn (iirc) 80% of normal profit. So it's hardly "Ever" or "unless you spend real-world currency." It is "Until you fix it" and "Unless you spend real money to speed it up, or spend time earning the in game money."

This is the same sort of gameplay in XCom that is being lauded as "A return to a time when games had consequences." And the sort of thing that people who denigrate WoW complain about ("Losing has no consequences! It's just push a button to respawn! There's no skill, there's no challenge!"). It's why EVE gets held up as the pinnacle of real MMO design, because your shit gets blown up, and it's on you to fix.

But yes, if you get your mech blown to hell, and can't afford to fix it, you can't use it again until you can afford to fix it. If the game *didn't* have unlimited use, no cost trial mechs, it would be amazingly broken. Since they do, it means you're penalized by having to use mechs that you may not like (most of them are not uber, but they are certainly servicable) until you can afford the repair costs.

I'm wondering how much an engine repair costs. You get money for every single match, win or lose, so it would be easy to figure out how long you would be in the penalty box to repair.

And I'm willing to be a bit of an ass, and pull out that old EVE standby: "If you can't afford to lose it, don't risk it." Given that in MWO you actively choose what Mech you go to combat in, rather than EVE, where "Risk it" means "Log in" I think it's a reasonable level of risk for people who are interested in games that include risk.

I'll readily acknowledge that's not for every one. Hell, I quit EVE before leaving the trial period, cause it sure wasn't for me. And often, it's not for me - I never even kept up with Ultima Online because of that - but MWO does it very well, imo. There's a penalty, but that penalty doesn't take you out of the game entirely, and they provide an ingame method to mitigate it.

[Stahlseele]

No, you can try and make the money to repair it using the free mechs you get i think . .
but that will take quite some time to do, depending on the engine for example . .
if you need 300k to repair the engine and you make 100k per game with the free mechs, you need to play at least 3 games with mechs you hate so you can play at least 1 game again with a mech you like . .

[lorechaser]

No, you can try and make the money to repair it using the free mechs you get i think . .
but that will take quite some time to do, depending on the engine for example . .
if you need 300k to repair the engine and you make 100k per game with the free mechs, you need to play at least 3 games with mechs you hate so you can play at least 1 game again with a mech you like . .

I will grant that if there is exactly 1 mech which you like, and you can't stand any others, and you end up getting smoked in that mech, and it is destroyed, you will not enjoy the game until it's fixed.

That being said, try some other mechs! Or, alternatively, put a little bit of money in to the free game you've been playing for free, and get the mech back, so that you can use it again. If you enjoy the game, spending a bit of cash shouldn't be a huge deal (note, however, that I have no issues inherently with either subscriptions or microtransactions, so your view may vary).

[_Pax._]

IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION

I was a fool, who let surprise and anger cloud his judgement. The missing engine was a BUG.

Herp, derp, idiotcakes on me.

[_Pax._]

I'm wondering how much an engine repair costs.

A Standard 240 costs 950,000 C-bills.

[Fabe]

Remember people the game is still in Closed beta they are still making adjustments to to things,id they update on Tuesday then we could end up with a whole new game.

[lorechaser]

A Standard 240 costs 950,000 C-bills.

That's a lot of cbills. Dayum.

[bannockburn]

You don't need to pay the full price for a repair most of the time, though. But yeah, reactors are expensive (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

the engine is, canonically, the most important and expensive thing in any mech . .
An Assault Mechs XL-Engine might, for example, cost more than an entire medium mech, if you are particularly unlucky . .

[_Pax._]

Keep in mind, 'mechs "engines" are actually fusion-reactor power plants ...!

(I honestly wish MWO would properly model what happens when you put an AC/20 round through the core of a big fusion reactor that's going full-tilt with all the safeties disengaged. BEWM, hehehe.)

[Stahlseele]

You wanna KNOW what happens?
A whole lot of NOTHING!
Going Thermonuclear Boom (Stackpoling) is physically wrong.
You maybe get a little poof from air(oxygen/hydrogen) being burned up around the Machine, but afterwards the breach will have caused the needed temperature in the fusion chamber to have lowered so the fusion stops cold. heh.

[faultline]

You wanna KNOW what happens?
A whole lot of NOTHING!
Going Thermonuclear Boom (Stackpoling) is physically wrong.
You maybe get a little poof from air(oxygen/hydrogen) being burned up around the Machine, but afterwards the breach will have caused the needed temperature in the fusion chamber to have lowered so the fusion stops cold. heh.

Hey to be fair it wasn't Stackpole's fault, engines exploding were in the rulebooks.

[Stahlseele]

Yes and no . . i think the actual rules came later, with tac ops first or so, but i am not sure about that.
And it's still damned hard to get one such explosion going. You need to take 3 or 4 (not sure again) engine hits IN ONE ROUND and THEN you have to roll on 2d6 and achieve a 10, 11 or 12 to get it going . .
So smaller engines still do not explode due to not being able to actually take the prerequisite engine hits in one round, and even bigger ones don't explode if they are damaged before, if the prerequisite engine crits ain't there anymore. After 3 engine hits every mech is dead, but to get it to explode is harder.
IS XL Engines have 3 crits in each torso SIDE to boot, meaning that as soon as one side torso is completely gone, so is the Mech.
CLAN XL only have 2 crits in the side torso, so they can keep working after one side torso is gone at least.

[_Pax._]

Going Thermonuclear Boom (Stackpoling) is physically wrong.

For one, even Stackpoling isn't really going thermonuclear. If a 'mech engine could go thermonuclear, then it would wipe clear entire map-boards.

When a fusion reactor catastrophically fails, the plasma inside it's fusion bottle - and by "plasma", I mean "stuff that is under intense pressure and just so happens to be multiple times hotter than the surface of a typical main-sequence star" - anyway, that "fusion bottle", a magnetic field that keeps the plasma under pressure and away from the walls of hte reactor itself, fails. Said plasma is thus no longer constrained from (a) expanding, and (b) coming into contact with the metals and ceramics around it ... which, under such high temperatures, immediately sublimates into rapidly-expanding superheated gas, itself.

...

IOW, when a 'mech engine "Stackpoles", what is being modelled is NOT "a runaway nuclear reaction" ... it's the simple result of the plasma at the reactor's core being released into the world. It's a flashover, just like opening the door to a room that's on fire: you suddenly let in oxygen, and WHOOSH the fire and heat come running gleefully out into your face.

In MWO terms? It should be a large "explosion" that does a little damage, and jacks up the HEAT scale of nearby mechs. With a radius of, oh, maybe half the engine rating, in meters. Which is to say "Dude, take a few steps back before he blows up, would you kindly?"

[CanRay]

"Brew up" would likely be the appropriate term, and has been around for a long time.

Also, playing Bioshock now, so I'm taking a few steps back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

the only thing i wish MWLL had that MWO has is the community size . . and even there i ain't 100% certain <.<

[_Pax._]

Sooooo ... I have found a weapons mix that I like. Base Chassis is an AWS-8Q; I run it with one PPC in the arm, and five Medium Pulse Lasers in the torso/head. PPC is group 1 (left-click), all the lasers are group 2 (right-click) and Cascade fired - I can basically stream a constant beam of medium-pulse-laser, without a single pause. Got enough heat sinks I can do that and, except in Caustic, not build any net heat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've actually gotten a kill or two with that one, and a boatload of Assists. Wish I'd taken an Awesomer for my Founders' Mech, in fact.

My callsign in MWO is, unoriginally: Pax

[bannockburn]

Can't take an Awesome as founder's mech (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Jenner, Hunchback, Catapult and Atlas only (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
But you can still contact the support, they may exchange it.

[Stahlseele]

The Awesome, while lighter, has always been a better Mech than the Atlas.
LITTLE inspires as much fear as one of those with 4xER PPC . . or even the one with the 3 old PPCs
Especially, because they are armored at 100% and don't have exploding ammo and no vulnerable side torso XL engine.
They are zombie-mechs. Yes, that's a field term.

[_Pax._]

I'm not sure I could pile in 3 or 4 ER-PPCs, and not have to either (a) run with so few heat sinks that I couldn't ever even Alpha Strike, and not go into instantaneous heat shutdown, or (b) strip out far more armor than I'd be comfortable losing. Especially not with how MWO handles 'mech customisation.

The one I love so far is an AWS-8Q, the classic old girl with 3 PPCs. I cut that down to one PPC, then put in (currently) six Medium lasers and a total of 34 heat sinks. Oh, and an AMS with one ton (1000 rounds, about 16.67 seconds of sustained fire)

MWO terms, that gives me a 1.24 heat efficiency (1.00 means "balanced", though that's not the same as a zero-heat design; 3.00 would be zero-heat). I can chain-fire the mediums with zero heat buildup, or batch-fire them for about 30% (that then quickly fades back to nothing, if I pause firing). Didn't have to go with an XL engine to pull that off, either.


I also have an AWS-8V I've tinkered with; it's very like the 8Q I've got, but three of the medium lasers change into Streak SRM2's (with 1 ton of ammo - 100 missiles, just shy of 17 salvos), with the ammo bay CASEd. Had to lose one heat sink and the AMS+ammo to fit the Streaks in. Thinking of replacing the Streak2s with SRM6s. Have to give it some thought.

Tweaked my Founder's Catapult CPLT-C1F to mount LRM20s instead of 15s, though it's energy armament took a hit - only Small Pulses left, but 4 of them. I'm hoping that's enough to give any pesky Lights who sneak into the "LRM Carrier Zone" reasons to go after someone ELSE'S Cat, haha. (And I'm shamelessly abusing the "1 JJ is as good as 10 of 'em" bug, for the time being; I'll ditch the JJ entirely when it's fixed).

Lastly right now, I've got a Jenner (JR7-F) I'm toying with. Not with much success, sadly. I tried it with 6 Small Pulse Lasers, and didn't do so well ... but I think that's more me than the guns, as I found it hard as hell to target stuff while running along at the stupendous top speed I pulled off (with an XL 245 engine; yes, that's a top speed of 113.4kph. In TT terms, she's a 7/10 speed demon.) Also abusing the "1 is enough" JJ bug with this one, so the TT is really 7/10/7. Obscene. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If I can learn to circle-strafe at the right speed to keep in an Atlas' rear quadrant, those six SPLs will really chew up some armor plate ... but first I have to learn to stop tripping over every 'mech in sight, hahaha!

What's scary is, I could strip out those SPLs, all six, and replace them with a single ER-PPC. A Jenner, with a PPC!!! CRAZY! LOL!

[Stahlseele]

a jenner is one of the heaviest light mechs you can get. and it's allways been known for firepower and speed, rather than anything else . .
as for the 4xER-PPC's: that one uses double heat sinks and produces, i think, 4 or 6 over heat per alpha strike . . the classic 3xPPC produces 2 over heat per salvo with SINGLE heat sinks.
One of the most used mods was to replace the PPCs with large lasers. a bit less reach and punch, but also less heat and weight so constantly cold enough and can get rid of some heatsinks.

[_Pax._]

I'll tell you one thing MWO has done: made me wish I had a group to play some TT Battletech with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)


For light mechs, I always liked the Hollander. Though, the design could be seriously improved - go with an XL engine, and you save enough (3.5 tons, actually - the engine of the stock model is 20% of the whole mech's base weight!!) for a pair of medium lasers AND another ton and a half of much-needed armor. Sure, it'd stil be a bit slow for a Light, but the two medium lasers are enough to let it skirmish with other lights, even some mediums; and the Gauss Rifle, well ... even Assaults need to respect THAT.

Plus, you know ... "gun with legs", ROFLCOPTER ...

[Stahlseele]

You realize how stupid that thing is in CBT tough, don't you?
You have the Gauss in the Side and the CT, at least in case of the heavy gauss . .
And even with the light gauss, the gauss is the biggest thing to be hit on the Mech.
One hit, one crit, one destroyed main weapon and maybe even side-torso/XL-Engine.

Now, the PACK HUNTER or the Hollander with a Heavy PPC with Capacitators, THAT is nasty.


as for wanting to play CBT . . tried megamek yet?

[_Pax._]

Never heard of Megamek.

As for the Hollander ... it's not that it's a GOOD mech ... it's that it gives me GIGGLE FITS to think of it. ;D

[Stahlseele]

megamek is a java based version of the cbt board game that can be played against a bot or other people via the interwebs.
it's a fan made project, pretty good too.

[_Pax._]

Consider my interest piqued. Got a link you can throw me, or should I go pester Google? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tanegar]

MegaMek, bitch! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[faultline]

Lastly right now, I've got a Jenner (JR7-F) I'm toying with. Not with much success, sadly. I tried it with 6 Small Pulse Lasers, and didn't do so well ... but I think that's more me than the guns, as I found it hard as hell to target stuff while running along at the stupendous top speed I pulled off (with an XL 245 engine; yes, that's a top speed of 113.4kph. In TT terms, she's a 7/10 speed demon.) Also abusing the "1 is enough" JJ bug with this one, so the TT is really 7/10/7. Obscene. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If I can learn to circle-strafe at the right speed to keep in an Atlas' rear quadrant, those six SPLs will really chew up some armor plate ... but first I have to learn to stop tripping over every 'mech in sight, hahaha!

What's scary is, I could strip out those SPLs, all six, and replace them with a single ER-PPC. A Jenner, with a PPC!!! CRAZY! LOL!

With my Jenner I drop the srms, and JJ's, usually adding in an ams w ammo, more heatsinks, and a bit of armor. When I've been able to afford it I've switched over to a larger xl engine and have been at over 130 kph with it.

At top speeds it is hard as hell to target, but when you get the circle of death (or circle-strafe as you call it) down, you will be able take down almost anything because some pilots will find it hard to keep up with turning/torso twisting to keep you in sights. I've gotten kills this way about 10 times or so, usually against other lights/mediums, once or twice against a heavy/assault

Learning not to trip over mech's and run into buildings is hard (unfortunately we don't have the compressed 360° vision like they've always described mech pilots as having in the books), but you eventually get into a pattern where you take a quick look around while weapons are charging, or in between shots of weapons groupings, to keep an eye on your surroundings.

[KarmaInferno]

Also I've found that "feathering" the jump jets makes for faster turning.





-k

[almost normal]

MegaMek, bitch! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Yep, I play that on the regular. While nothing beats the fun of filling in tiny circles hundreds of times a match, Megamek is a nice way to play folks o`er the internet.

I'll also debate the whole Awesome > Atlas thing.

The Awesome is a great defender mech, but that's really all it can do; stand on top of a mountain and shoot towards you, hoping for the best. It's an Assault weight mech that is completely outclassed when it comes to actually assaulting something.

The Atlas however, can start the game running forward and never stop, getting shots off until it reaches it's destination, where it can then pummel most things into submission. Two 10 point fists? That's enough to crack the cockpit. AC 20? In the glory days of Box-Set, that was truly a weapon to be feared. Even if you manage to get behind it, It's got enough rear weaponry to give some light jumpers a pause.

No, in anything other then a suppositional line fight where two mechs stand a distance away and shoot at each other politely, I'll take the Atlas.

[Stahlseele]

i'll give you the AC20 of awesome, but only in the 3025 setting . . afterwards, it simply is outclassed <.<
The Gauss-Rifle does the same Damage with a SINGLE POINT OF HEAT over FUCK HUEG DISTANCE!
And the Awesome can deliver a mighty kick too. And you have at least one Hand in the 3xPPC version.
And of course, the mighty small laser of doom . . don't ask me how often i have blown stuff to smithereens with that one.
Entire alpha strike misses . . tiny small lasers needs a 12 to hit. hits. goes Through armor crit. hits something expensive.
Like, 3x engine or gyroscope or ammo or head/cockpit . .
The awesome is SLOW for it's small weight at only 80t and moving 3/5 . . but that's because it has as much armor as an atlas.
And the Atlas is full of explodey bits with the LRM, SRM and AC ammo usually. Or the Gauss-Rifle in place.
The Minimum-Range-Problem of the Awesome vanishes with the ER-PPC or Large Laser Variants.
It is, simply, AWESOME!
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Awesome

The only thing that's genuinely BETTER in a group of people playing CBT instead of MegaMek is the food and the HEADSHOT! *points and dances*

[almost normal]

Gauss Rifle does 15, AC20, oddly enough, does 20.

Also, Gauss rifle is level 2, or whatever they're calling levels these days over in Herbtech land. Didn't come in the box set.

Stahl, what do you think about organizing up a dumpshock game with me?

[Stahlseele]

ah, right, the gauss only deals 15 not 20 . . i always get that wrong x.x
yes, gauss is more advanced, i am a fan of starter tech myself, actually.
especially the hunchback 4P . . such an evil little hate-machine *drools*

As for a Dumpshock MegaMek Game:
seeing how i am at work about 90% of my awake time it seems, it'd probably be a bit hard to get it going with me <.<

[CanRay]

The Awesome is a great defender mech, but that's really all it can do; stand on top of a mountain and shoot towards you, hoping for the best. It's an Assault weight mech that is completely outclassed when it comes to actually assaulting something.

So it's like a WWII Tank Destroyer, used aggressively, deployed defensively?

[almost normal]

So it's like a WWII Tank Destroyer, used aggressively, deployed defensively?

Quite so.

My assessment is based on Golden Era tech levels however, where Star League equipment like double heat sinks and Gauss Rifles didn't really exist yet. If you decide to include everything, then you've got monstrosities like the Hellstar, a bigger, faster Awesome that carries 4 more damaging clan ER-PPCs, with the heat sinks to fire them all comfortably.

[CanRay]

I so wish I could play this game tabletop. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[almost normal]

You finally got to play Shadowrun and now you're getting greedy. Figures.

[Stahlseele]

Quite so.

My assessment is based on Golden Era tech levels however, where Star League equipment like double heat sinks and Gauss Rifles didn't really exist yet. If you decide to include everything, then you've got monstrosities like the Hellstar, a bigger, faster Awesome that carries 4 more damaging clan ER-PPCs, with the heat sinks to fire them all comfortably.

Well, the HellStar is a Clan-Mech.

I so wish I could play this game tabletop. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Have you tried out megamek yet?

You finally got to play Shadowrun and now you're getting greedy. Figures.

he's got the taste, he's got the power.

[_Pax._]

I'll also debate the whole Awesome > Atlas thing.

I've done better piloting my Awesomer AWS-8Q (ER-PPC, two Large Lasers), than my Atlas AS7-K (two ER-PPCs, one L Pulse Laser, two AMS). The atlas has bigger weapons, and over 20% more armor. Both move the same speed. The Atlas SHOULD be better ... but it's not, not with me in the cockpit.

[...] Two 10 point fists? [...] rear weaponry [...]

MWO has neither of those.

No, in anything other then a suppositional line fight where two mechs stand a distance away and shoot at each other politely, I'll take the Atlas.

.... I'll take a 50-ton LAM, thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Jump 11+ hexes a turn? Fat chance hitting me with anything, let alone that dead-weight AC/20.

(A pair of LAM spotters backed up by LRM carriers, all in a C3 network, is an ugly, ugly thing. Especially if you throw canon to the wind, and build it with C3I modules. Two spotters trading places out front, FOUR LRM-heavies ... yeah. It gets ugly. For the other guy.)

[Stahlseele]

so the phoenix hawk lam then?
those are extinct by the way . .

[almost normal]

.... I'll take a 50-ton LAM, thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Jump 11+ hexes a turn? Fat chance hitting me with anything, let alone that dead-weight AC/20.

(A pair of LAM spotters backed up by LRM carriers, all in a C3 network, is an ugly, ugly thing. Especially if you throw canon to the wind, and build it with C3I modules. Two spotters trading places out front, FOUR LRM-heavies ... yeah. It gets ugly. For the other guy.)

We were talking specifically board game, and then focused to box-set, which doesn't feature LAMs.

As far as LAMs go, They're an air asset, dealt with anti-air assets, like Arrow launchers. Doesn't matter how far you jumped, you're a 9 to hit with an average pilot, and taking 20 points of damage in 5 point clusters. Have fun with your piloting check. The extreme rarity of LAMs coupled with the great deal of conventional forces any given planet has makes LAMs silly as a confined location fighter. Indeed, if faced with opposition the first thing a LAM pilot should do is fly the fuck away and hit something unprotected instead.

[Stahlseele]

Yes, LAMs are very much guerilla style machines made for operations where there can be no landing strip for normal air assets. because they can simply walk and jump and fly and jump and land and walk . .
basically, they are there to land somewhere close to the anti air batteries, hope to take out these batteries before they get bumrushed by ground forces and then take off and fly away to somewhere else while the real ASF now have no anti air to deal with anymor . .

and are you sure you mean arrow missles?
not artemis missle launchers?
arrows are artillery missles if i am not misremembering o.O

[almost normal]

You're remembering correctly. Arrow missiles can be used as Flak against air units, of which an Airmech mode LAM is considered. Since LAMs have been illegal since at least 1994, most of the interactions however are all very house-ruled.