Decker opposition, Is this completely broken? Options

[FuelDrop]

Ok, so according to the book of SR5 12 to 15 grand per runner is not unreasonable pay for a runner team on many jobs (More with a decent face, but still)

Ok, so let's say that during the adventure you encounter an enemy decker with a rating 2 deck. Not unreasonable. You defeat him, and swipe his deck.
Now you sell it.
call it 30% (25% + 1 net hit complements of your face, who's likely to have a better negotiation dicepool than a decker who's after a new deck.)
That's 30-33 grand, or in a 4 runner team 7.5 - 8 grand each. That's half your paycheck from a single piece of loot. A good roll from your face will get you a lot more, adding 5 or more grand per hit before dividing it up.

In effect, any time you face off against a decker with even a lousy rating 2 'link who doesn't have it implanted will be a gift of a lot of cash in a very portable form.

On the flip side, is it really worth it for a small facility to get this massively expensive piece of gear and an operator? Or is my willing suspension of disbelief just sub-par?

[kzt]

Pay scales for SR per the books have always been stupid. SR5 is just more stupider.

[Jack VII]

On the flip side, is it really worth it for a small facility to get this massively expensive piece of gear and an operator? Or is my willing suspension of disbelief just sub-par?

I would think most matrix opposition you would run into in a facility would be of the spider variety. I would guess that dude would be jacked into a terminal somewhere off-site or on-site, rather than using a portable deck.

[Abstruse]

Odds are an in-person decker would be pretty rare on a corporate run. You'd probably see the corporate decker in full VR more than standing around with the random guards. And a lot of corporations would probably skimp on hiring a decker for every facility in favor of hiring a few deckers for the entire division to code IC and spiders and let GOD do most of the dirty work by ratcheting up OS.

[LordlierPie]

I would just make it that the buildings spider has an actual console in an office somewhere, and if the runners want to take the time and hardware test they could take some of the parts, but there is no easy to loot deck

[Isath]

To me it is the pricing, that is broken. Prices in SR4 apeared a lot more reasonable to me. Sadly SR5 is a return to overpriced gear. Especially with professional gear, defining your profession. There is no use in being a computer-crack if you do not own a completely overpriced tablet... yes I loath Cyberdecks.

[Epicedion]

Since you can slave devices to a host, it'd be more efficient to have security slave their devices to one host, and leave the decker off-site and capable of monitoring a number of security sites from that host. That way the host provides a static defense bonus, and the decker can remove marks and whatnot. If things get really bad, the decker can track the invading hacker's marks back to the hacker and attack him through the Matrix.

A larger facility with its own host might have an on-site decker, but almost assuredly he wouldn't be wandering around looking for runners to data spike. That's what the dudes with machine guns are for.

[Moirdryd]

Sure, you can get that for a Deck, but it does take a whole bunch of time to sell the thing. one of the key problems in most resource systems are that the timescales are often ignored when it comes to fencing goods etc.

I had a team back in SR3 that thought they'd hit it major, but we're horrified at the three months to move their highly specialised loot.

[Abstruse]

Can we please have one conversation about the new rules system without someone bitching about how the game's ruined? Seriously, getting a little tired. Some of us actually LIKE the new system and would like to discuss it and its ramifications without having some grognard try to skirt the no edition wars rules without offering a single constructive thought to the conversation.

[Raiden]

Can we please have one conversation about the new rules system without someone bitching about how the game's ruined? Seriously, getting a little tired. Some of us actually LIKE the new system and would like to discuss it and its ramifications without having some grognard try to skirt the no edition wars rules without offering a single constructive thought to the conversation.

what

[Bigity]

It's dumpshock dude. Don't be silly

[FuelDrop]

Fast food fight has a decker with a rating 2 deck (retail 110 grand) as a fry chef. Heck, if the runners pilfer that and sell it they get at least 25 grand for it on a 1 grand each run (assuming that you pull off the second objective).

[Jack VII]

Can we please have one conversation about the new rules system without someone bitching about how the game's ruined? Seriously, getting a little tired. Some of us actually LIKE the new system and would like to discuss it and its ramifications without having some grognard try to skirt the no edition wars rules without offering a single constructive thought to the conversation.

This! IS! DUMPSHOCK!

[Rystefn]

Fast food fight has a decker with a rating 2 deck (retail 110 grand) as a fry chef. Heck, if the runners pilfer that and sell it they get at least 25 grand for it on a 1 grand each run (assuming that you pull off the second objective).

Inflation, man. Or something... >.>

[Moirdryd]

Sure they can FuelDrop, but it's probabley going to take at least 2Months to sell the thing.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Sure they can FuelDrop, but it's probabley going to take at least 2Months to sell the thing.

Naah... Dump it to your Fence... It is his job to sell it. He gives you your cut (20%), and then sells it to some newb Decker tomorrow for full price.

[Elfenlied]

Can we please have one conversation about the new rules system without someone bitching about how the game's ruined? Seriously, getting a little tired. Some of us actually LIKE the new system and would like to discuss it and its ramifications without having some grognard try to skirt the no edition wars rules without offering a single constructive thought to the conversation.

Weren't it the "grognards" who reintroduced those prices for old times sake?

[Abschalten]

Weren't it the "grognards" who reintroduced those prices for old times sake?

Say what you want about SR4, its prices were much more reasonable. While imperfect, they at least gave you reason to believe these items you were dealing with existed in a believable economy.

SR5's pricing model, especially in terms of cyberdecks, goes back to that old-school economic retardedness, where you might make a couple grand on a job but need that piece of gear in the hundreds of thousands of nuyen just to stay ahead of the curve.

This is especially prevalent in any of the official Missions, (even in SR4!) where the pay for doing the job sometimes doesn't even cover the expenses for the job itself. I guess Johnsons can be serious misers, even when throwing money at what is essentially a black ops crash project.

[BishopMcQ]

Don't forget you also have to hack the device to transfer Ownership, which takes awhile. The Ownership mechanics, by my understanding, were put in place to reduce looting etc.

[Abschalten]

The Ownership mechanics, by my understanding, were put in place to reduce looting etc.

The devs really wanted to make it too difficult to afford decent gear, didn't they? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[Wakshaani]

On the flip side, is it really worth it for a small facility to get this massively expensive piece of gear and an operator? Or is my willing suspension of disbelief just sub-par?

Most facilities won't have an on-site Spider. The new, "unhackable" Matrix eliminated a healthy chunk of the hackers out there (Until they upgraded to Cyberdecks, which took a while), and the new IC protocols are enough to stop quite a few of the rest. (I/C ... it's like a decker that you don't have to pay for, yay!)

If the place isn't extra-territorial, they may have a decker service online or, failing that, have an alert system that contacts Knight Errant or Lonestar to swing in. Law Enforcement deckers sit at the precinct house and log in remotely to frag you up. The basic Trace action is a *terror* for Joe Decker since the law enforcement guys can, and will, dispatch a car to come pick you up and you really don't want that action. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If the area's Extraterritorial, then there'll be a decker somewhere, but only on-site for a larger location. The MCT Hexagon in Seattle has deckers in the place, for instance, but Research Facility #18 probably doesn't... they just have a decker from the Hex pop in when an alert goes on.

Of course, if you really start hammering systems, that's when they call in a guy from teh Home Office. You don't want that. It ends badly.

[Aaron]

If you're running against a corporate decker who happens to have her own deck on her person and you can get to her, there's still the matter, as BishopMcQ mentioned, of transferring ownership. Since the deck's owner is most likely the corp, not the decker, they'll be able to spot the deck any time they like, and then a trace is just a Matrix action away. Of course, you can always turn the deck's wireless off, but you can't change ownership without the Matrix, so whoever ends up with it will probably resent the fact that you didn't tell them it was hot. You could travel to a really remote location and do the ownership hack there, in hopes that you can get away before the corp can make a response, although being in a sparsely populated area means that attack drones or (if they really hate you) cruise missiles will become more likely than investigation teams. In the end, it seems like a lot of hassle.

[Raiden]

simple solution. wait for it. almost. pay more than suggested?

[Medicineman]

Why stop at looting Decks ?
Cyberware in SR5 is so expensive ,that
it pays off to butcher Streetsams to get the (now used) Cyberware (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Hough!
Medicineman

[Remnar]

Why stop at looting Decks ?
Cyberware in SR5 is so expensive ,that
it pays off to butcher Streetsams to get the (now used) Cyberware (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Hough!
Medicineman

Yeah, that makes me think of our old 2nd ed games where some players loved to collect used cyber from fallen foes and try to sell it. We were young and pretty Pink Mohawk at the time, so it was fun for all involved. Pretty sure that crew drove about in a tricked out Citymaster and Lonestar learned to just leave them be.

The memories.