Run & Gun Preview #4, Team Roles and Small Unit Tactics Options

[Jack VII]

You can find it here.

[BlackJaw]

Do I spot references to Tac-Net software, and is it past-tense? Something new called a "Pi-Tac" and something else called a "PCC?"

[Sendaz]

Nice teaser about using a Decker to keep the wireless on their side secure or semi-protected at least. Let's hope the crunch matches up to the fluff in the game information section with added tricks of the trade for this.

[Sengir]

In-character field manual, not exactly the part why I'd buy a gear book (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Smash]

Do I spot references to Tac-Net software, and is it past-tense? Something new called a "Pi-Tac" and something else called a "PCC?"

I hope it's just fluff. The last thing we need is something that just adds 3-4 to limits and/or dicepools for nothing.

[Jaid]

Nice teaser about using a Decker to keep the wireless on their side secure or semi-protected at least. Let's hope the crunch matches up to the fluff in the game information section with added tricks of the trade for this.

see, here's the problem with that. if they go and make it super difficult to find and take advantage of wireless devices, what was the point in forcing us all to use wireless in the first place?

i mean, supposedly wireless bonuses were supposed to be the incentive to make us all insane enough to hook our spinal column and nervous system to the matrix, in order to provide a playground for hackers. if they make it so that deckers can't actually play in that playground, then why have stupid nonsensical wireless bonuses in the first place?

[Sendaz]

see, here's the problem with that. if they go and make it super difficult to find and take advantage of wireless devices, what was the point in forcing us all to use wireless in the first place?

i mean, supposedly wireless bonuses were supposed to be the incentive to make us all insane enough to hook our spinal column and nervous system to the matrix, in order to provide a playground for hackers. if they make it so that deckers can't actually play in that playground, then why have stupid nonsensical wireless bonuses in the first place?

Why would the devices be difficult to find? I didn't get the impression that having a decker on your side rendered your devices invisible or immune, but rather a decker would offer a more active defense of said devices.

This covers all tasks or issues that deal with any aspect of the Matrix. While rarely physical combatants, the runners filling this role search out and disable any vulnerable enemy wireless or Matrix assets.

So devices can still be found and attacked, especially vulnerable devices lacking decent protection. Course the argument of what counts as decent may vary since a decent commlink does offer a bit.

They’re also responsible for securing and defending the teams wireless and Matrix assets.

This is the crunch point they need to focus on if they want people to risk being part of that network.

Matrix support team members are often most useful in keeping the team leader apprised of changes in the tactical situation, which can morph rapidly once combat is joined, and keeping all members in communication when the team is divided.

Information is power and a good decker/TM should be part overwatch monitoring and interpreting data to give the team any edge possible...

[Smash]

see, here's the problem with that. if they go and make it super difficult to find and take advantage of wireless devices, what was the point in forcing us all to use wireless in the first place?

i mean, supposedly wireless bonuses were supposed to be the incentive to make us all insane enough to hook our spinal column and nervous system to the matrix, in order to provide a playground for hackers. if they make it so that deckers can't actually play in that playground, then why have stupid nonsensical wireless bonuses in the first place?

I thought the exact same thing and to be honest, I think it's to placate all the people who have been complaining about it non-stop for the past 9 months. It's a shame really. I rolled a decker because it seemed that they were actually trying to make wireless interesting. If we get forced back into babysitting tac-nets and having to plug into everything I would have rather just played an archetype that's allowed to have fun and just allowed the decking to be hand-waved like it always was.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I thought the exact same thing and to be honest, I think it's to placate all the people who have been complaining about it non-stop for the past 9 months. It's a shame really. I rolled a decker because it seemed that they were actually trying to make wireless interesting. If we get forced back into babysitting tac-nets and having to plug into everything I would have rather just played an archetype that's allowed to have fun and just allowed the decking to be hand-waved like it always was.

They should have just made cyber hackable. Its the wireless to get lame bonuses thing that pisses me off. If they just said, hey new tech allows you to hack closed systems like cyber, I'd of said cool GiTS hacking.

[Jaid]

Why would the devices be difficult to find? I didn't get the impression that having a decker on your side rendered your devices invisible or immune, but rather a decker would offer a more active defense of said devices.
So devices can still be found and attacked, especially vulnerable devices lacking decent protection. Course the argument of what counts as decent may vary since a decent commlink does offer a bit.

This is the crunch point they need to focus on if they want people to risk being part of that network.

Information is power and a good decker/TM should be part overwatch monitoring and interpreting data to give the team any edge possible...

you're the one who was hoping for additional ways to protect your group. if those additional ways don't add anything, then they're meaningless. if they do add anything, it's going to have to either be in terms of difficulty to find, or difficulty to hack.

if they do add those things, and they are actually meaningful, then we get right back to where we were before, where hackers either control the environment or pull out a gun and shoot people in combat. except that now they also probably can't do a very good job of controlling the environment because there's added protection.

if they don't do that, then we go right to the point where all these professionally paranoid individuals decide it's totally reasonable to connect their spinal column to the matrix, because hey it's not like they're in a profession where people are trying to kill them all the time or anything.

@ smash: in many places, hackers *did* have things to do. in a city, there are probably *hundreds* of cars within hacking radius, and regular cars shouldn't have enough matrix toughness to withstand a hacker that can get into megacorporate systems anyways. in a corporate facility, the corporation has conveniently painstakingly created a battlefield that is controlled through their systems to favour their own people... and which you can subvert.

the only thing they needed to do to make hacking viable in combat in most scenarios was to make it resolve quickly both in and out of the game. we don't need stupid things like wireless cyberlimbs that can be bricked for hackers to be useful in combat. we need GMs to understand that a corporate research facility is like a living fortress controlled by computers which a skilled hacker can subvert.

when you consider that cars in most editions can crash into people for more damage than a panther auto cannon can deal, and that every door in a corporate facility should be controllable by the security spider, as well as weapon turrets, lights, and various other weaponized environmental factors (control the HVAC to provide covering smoke as needed or to dump pepper spray into certain rooms, have the lights flicker in a way designed to mess with flare compensation, etc), the reason hackers had a hard time in combat isn't because they had nothing to hack...

it's that it takes a couple minutes to resolve their attack out of game, and a couple of combat rounds or more in game, that's the problem. if smashing a car into a target was as easily resolved in the matrix as firing a panther auto cannon is in regular combat, people would use it more often.

[Sengir]

see, here's the problem with that. if they go and make it super difficult to find and take advantage of wireless devices, what was the point in forcing us all to use wireless in the first place?

i mean, supposedly wireless bonuses were supposed to be the incentive to make us all insane enough to hook our spinal column and nervous system to the matrix, in order to provide a playground for hackers. if they make it so that deckers can't actually play in that playground, then why have stupid nonsensical wireless bonuses in the first place?

You seem to assume that there is any logic behind this concept...

[binarywraith]

you're the one who was hoping for additional ways to protect your group. if those additional ways don't add anything, then they're meaningless. if they do add anything, it's going to have to either be in terms of difficulty to find, or difficulty to hack.

if they do add those things, and they are actually meaningful, then we get right back to where we were before, where hackers either control the environment or pull out a gun and shoot people in combat. except that now they also probably can't do a very good job of controlling the environment because there's added protection.

if they don't do that, then we go right to the point where all these professionally paranoid individuals decide it's totally reasonable to connect their spinal column to the matrix, because hey it's not like they're in a profession where people are trying to kill them all the time or anything.

@ smash: in many places, hackers *did* have things to do. in a city, there are probably *hundreds* of cars within hacking radius, and regular cars shouldn't have enough matrix toughness to withstand a hacker that can get into megacorporate systems anyways. in a corporate facility, the corporation has conveniently painstakingly created a battlefield that is controlled through their systems to favour their own people... and which you can subvert.

the only thing they needed to do to make hacking viable in combat in most scenarios was to make it resolve quickly both in and out of the game. we don't need stupid things like wireless cyberlimbs that can be bricked for hackers to be useful in combat. we need GMs to understand that a corporate research facility is like a living fortress controlled by computers which a skilled hacker can subvert.

when you consider that cars in most editions can crash into people for more damage than a panther auto cannon can deal, and that every door in a corporate facility should be controllable by the security spider, as well as weapon turrets, lights, and various other weaponized environmental factors (control the HVAC to provide covering smoke as needed or to dump pepper spray into certain rooms, have the lights flicker in a way designed to mess with flare compensation, etc), the reason hackers had a hard time in combat isn't because they had nothing to hack...

it's that it takes a couple minutes to resolve their attack out of game, and a couple of combat rounds or more in game, that's the problem. if smashing a car into a target was as easily resolved in the matrix as firing a panther auto cannon is in regular combat, people would use it more often.

That's the biggest gripe I've had with SR5's Matrix, design-wise. They imposed a bunch of really nonsensical shit on every non-decker character in order to fix a problem that wasn't a problem. If your decker has nothing to do in combat, either you have failed to make a character that can interact with the game world or your GM is failing at running Shadowrun.

[Smash]

That's the biggest gripe I've had with SR5's Matrix, design-wise. They imposed a bunch of really nonsensical shit on every non-decker character in order to fix a problem that wasn't a problem. If your decker has nothing to do in combat, either you have failed to make a character that can interact with the game world or your GM is failing at running Shadowrun.

For me, it's not really about that.

Deckers suffer from the 'boring toolbag' archetype that clerics in D&D fall into. In both games (except with games with TJ because he's a living paradox) you generally find that these most vital classes are usually the ones no-one wants to play. They always want to just play combat specialised characters.

I'm not saying that Decker's can't shoot guns, what my position has always been is that it's good that you don't always have to. The bricking mechanic is actually pretty useful outside of combat as well.

There's only so many files you can download or doors you can open before you start to wish that you'd just rolled a mage or a sam. This will become particularly so if a book just gives sadistic DMs the tools to make decking impossible because "Datz de realismz".

[psychophipps]

Meh.

[DWC]

I have to admit that I was more likely to buy Run and Gun before I saw the first preview, and each one makes me want to buy it less and less. Then again, if the next preview is just an article explaining that the Line Developer finally realized that firearms customization is idiotic in a system that's not already internally mechanically consistent, maybe I'll pick it up. But I doubt it. Instead, I'll see belt fed, full auto Rain Forest Carbines and Crocket EBRs.

If they're sloppy enough to let me, I know I'll have mine when Gencon rolls around.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

For me, it's not really about that.

Deckers suffer from the 'boring toolbag' archetype that clerics in D&D fall into. In both games (except with games with TJ because he's a living paradox) you generally find that these most vital classes are usually the ones no-one wants to play. They always want to just play combat specialised characters.

I'm not saying that Decker's can't shoot guns, what my position has always been is that it's good that you don't always have to. The bricking mechanic is actually pretty useful outside of combat as well.

There's only so many files you can download or doors you can open before you start to wish that you'd just rolled a mage or a sam. This will become particularly so if a book just gives sadistic DMs the tools to make decking impossible because "Datz de realismz".

Entertaining that I love both Concepts - Clerics in DnD and Hackers in SR4A. They are often some of the most interesting characters, and there is never a lack of any one wanting to play them at our tables. Probably because they are not boring, and both have a massive amount of things that they can contribute to the party. *shrug*

I never had the issue you describe of me being bored with hacking, ever. And I do tend to shoot people in combat (yes, even as a Hacker), because, you know, that is what you do IN COMBAT. But you know what... it was not all the time. Because there was often OTHER things that kept me busy, and none of it dealt with hacking the opposition Street Sam's 'Ware.

[binarywraith]

Entertaining that I love both Concepts - Clerics in DnD and Hackers in SR4A. They are often some of the most interesting characters, and there is never a lack of any one wanting to play them at our tables. Probably because they are not boring, and both have a massive amount of things that they can contribute to the party. *shrug*

I never had the issue you describe of me being bored with hacking, ever. And I do tend to shoot people in combat (yes, even as a Hacker), because, you know, that is what you do IN COMBAT. But you know what... it was not all the time. Because there was often OTHER things that kept me busy, and none of it dealt with hacking the opposition Street Sam's 'Ware.

Yeah, it's odd that I somehow play both myself, on those rare occasions I get to play instead of GMing either game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Jaid]

For me, it's not really about that.

Deckers suffer from the 'boring toolbag' archetype that clerics in D&D fall into. In both games (except with games with TJ because he's a living paradox) you generally find that these most vital classes are usually the ones no-one wants to play. They always want to just play combat specialised characters.

I'm not saying that Decker's can't shoot guns, what my position has always been is that it's good that you don't always have to. The bricking mechanic is actually pretty useful outside of combat as well.

There's only so many files you can download or doors you can open before you start to wish that you'd just rolled a mage or a sam. This will become particularly so if a book just gives sadistic DMs the tools to make decking impossible because "Datz de realismz".

perhaps you're opening and/or closing the wrong doors.

for example, if those doors happen to contain an untrained piasma, the door gets a lot more interesting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

but seriously, i don't think that places willing to invest in armed guards and drones with automatic weapons are going to be shy about investing in defensive measures stronger than doors.

they're going to have more "pro-active" security systems. security systems which are vulnerable to hacking, if you can get into their system. stuff like automated turrets, knockout gas chambers, electrified floors, etc. now, a lot of it will be relatively non-lethal; for obvious reasons, you don't want to build an incineration chamber that might incinerate that prized researcher you just spent 200,000 nuyen hiring a shadowrunner team to extract for you, for example. (obviously, the consequences of falling victim to their less lethal defence systems are not necessarily going to be less lethal for shadowrunners; once they've captured you, you better hope you have more value to them alive than you do dead. unless you're a technomancer, in which case you may wish to invest in a cyanide capsule). their systems may very well even have external requirements to enable them, although they should still be something the spider can control (otherwise you've got a dog-brain controlling it, and that's just never a good thing). so, for example, they may not be able to activate unless there's an alarm, no matter how much you hack them (on the other hand, triggering an alarm is generally not a hard thing to do).

but seriously, there should be a lot more to the corporate facility than just doors and cameras. they hired a black-ops team comprised of people who are generally unsuitable for corporate employment because they didn't want to get caught doing it themselves, there's got to be some crazy security setup otherwise they would just hire a bunch of thugs to kick in the front door or even use corporate assets if they're confident they won't get caught.

[Umidori]

Entertaining that I love both Concepts - Clerics in DnD and Hackers in SR4A. They are often some of the most interesting characters, and there is never a lack of any one wanting to play them at our tables. Probably because they are not boring, and both have a massive amount of things that they can contribute to the party. *shrug*

I dunno, TJ. While there certainly can be "interesting" Clerics and Hackers, they seem to be much more the exception rather than the rule. Or maybe we just have different valuations of what is "interesting"?

One big problem with Clerics and Hackers both is their "aesthetics", for lack of a better term. It's not like playing a tough as nails Fighter/Street Sam, or a silent but deadly Rogue/Infiltrator, or a magically incendiary Wizard/Magician. Clerics and Hackers are seen as Support Roles, the sort of characters designed pretty must just to offer Utility to a team. While "Warrior" types are akin to Infantry, "Rogue" types are akin to Cavalry, and "Mage" types are akin to Artillery, "Support" types are akin to Supply Wagons - absolutely vital, but entirely unglamorous.

There's also the problem of weak thematic typing. Clerics feel like a less in-your-face version of Paladins - they both have divine magic, an anti-undead emphasis, blunt weapons, and healing powers, but everything about Paladins evokes the theme of zealous holy warriors while everything about Clerics feels... like a watered down Paladin, or generic Utility mage?

At the same time, Hackers kind of just feel like the more abstract version of Riggers and Cyberized Sammies - they all share a heavy reliance on gear and technology, but instead of commanding a miniature robot army or turning their bodies into literal killing machines, Hackers go in for the awe-inspiring power to... collect data files... tamper with security cameras... open doors... and even play some Dwarf Fortress engage in thrilling Icon vs. Icon "cybercombat"!

Borrr-ing!

...yet, ever so necessary.

Don't get me wrong - Utility roles often are quite powerful, and properly employed can give a team the edge necessary to go from being just "good" to being truly great. But they're not "sexy", so to speak. No one lies awake at night fantasizing about disarming a Data Bomb or expertly taking out a pair of Black IC, no matter how mission critical. Other, more in-your-face archetypes pretty much sell themselves. Hackers? Eh... not so much.

Let's be honest here - people play Shadowrun because they want to roleplay a badass of some description. Hackers can do a lot of extremely useful things, but none of them really make you feel amazing when you do them.

Yeah, you did a great job hacking the enemy team's commlinks and leading them into an ambush, but it's the Street Sam who feels like king of the world when an unsuspecting mook turns a corner face-first into the barrel of his shotgun, not you.

Sure, you got the vital intel which let the team realize their Johnson was trying to screw them over, but it's the Face who feels like the smoothest of operators as they cut a deal with the Johnson's opposition, taking care of the rat bastard and fattening your wallet at the same time.

Okay, so you saved the entire team's bacon by opening those sealed blast doors when the drek hit the fan, but it's the Shaman who felt like a primordial god holding the line by hurling lightning bolts and summoning beastial spirits of nature while you were slumped against the wall drooling with your head wired into a data terminal.

Hackers have value - but they're sorely lacking in style.

~Umi

[binarywraith]

Really, though, that's a problem of player perception.

Clerics, for example, are absolute powerhouses in D&D if played right. They've got the armor/hp/attack bonus to hang with the fighters, a ton of buffs available to them, and a pretty decent selection of summoning spells to make up for less than stellar direct damage. Not to mention healing. Players just see the role they'd push a cleric into if someone else was playing it, and think it is uninteresting. Want to see your party respect your contribution to the team? Stop healing for a fight or two.

Same goes for deckers. The common image of them is the guy who spends every run in his computer chair at home, remotely hacking stuff. That is a pretty poor way to build a character, and I blame it soundly on years of GM's handwaving decking. Put a few karma into something that isn't "Neckbearded shut-in-fu", and you get a perfectly workable character that can spend time hacking things on-site while still having things to do when the shit hits the fan. If decking isn't being essential to your runs in some way, then the GM is sorely shorting you on major parts of the game, as much so as if magic was cut completely and we just played Cyberpunk 2020.

Not to mention a character who can walk down to Stuffer Shack for a pack of Nerps without being mugged and given an delightful selection of new holes by the local gangers is a bit of a better idea, plausibility wise. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Smash]

perhaps you're opening and/or closing the wrong doors.

for example, if those doors happen to contain an untrained piasma, the door gets a lot more interesting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

but seriously, i don't think that places willing to invest in armed guards and drones with automatic weapons are going to be shy about investing in defensive measures stronger than doors.

they're going to have more "pro-active" security systems. security systems which are vulnerable to hacking, if you can get into their system. stuff like automated turrets, knockout gas chambers, electrified floors, etc. now, a lot of it will be relatively non-lethal; for obvious reasons, you don't want to build an incineration chamber that might incinerate that prized researcher you just spent 200,000 nuyen hiring a shadowrunner team to extract for you, for example. (obviously, the consequences of falling victim to their less lethal defence systems are not necessarily going to be less lethal for shadowrunners; once they've captured you, you better hope you have more value to them alive than you do dead. unless you're a technomancer, in which case you may wish to invest in a cyanide capsule). their systems may very well even have external requirements to enable them, although they should still be something the spider can control (otherwise you've got a dog-brain controlling it, and that's just never a good thing). so, for example, they may not be able to activate unless there's an alarm, no matter how much you hack them (on the other hand, triggering an alarm is generally not a hard thing to do).

but seriously, there should be a lot more to the corporate facility than just doors and cameras. they hired a black-ops team comprised of people who are generally unsuitable for corporate employment because they didn't want to get caught doing it themselves, there's got to be some crazy security setup otherwise they would just hire a bunch of thugs to kick in the front door or even use corporate assets if they're confident they won't get caught.

I don't disagree with any of that, it's just that no matter how much we dress up how awesome decking apparently is, they are generally (and that's not to say ALWAYS to avoid all the powerful anecdotes that are sure to follow) rarely played archetypes and the great thing was, if you didn't have one you could just a) hire one to do the boring stuff and b) the GM didn't have to pretend they had any idea how decking actually worked.

Yes every facility can be like a game of 'Prince of Persia' but at the end of the day it all just boils down to "Oh, here's something the decker needs to do. Who wants pizza?" It would eventually get done and everyone else would have fun fly kicking red samurai while the decker hid in the next room looking for something to do. Now, you may ask "Why is fly kicking red Samurai more fun than turning off electrified pits?" The answer to that is human nature. We all like violence, even simulated violence, which is why we play Shadowrun and not My little Pony-Run. It's as simple as that.

One of the writers posted a thread on Dumpshock a while ago that showed a video of Ghost in the Shell where a hacker hacked some guys eyes to fool him into thinking he had the upper hand. That was awesome, that was suddenly something that a hacker could do tactically rather just shoot ineffectively. That's where the game was heading and now it is starting to look like that Run&Gun is going to roll that back to placate the whingers. That's really disappointing.

[Umidori]

Really, though, that's a problem of player perception.

My problem is that a well designed game takes into account things like player perceptions.

People come into games with pre-existing notions, and they may have false expectations and might make unrealistic assumptions. But part of the job of a game designer is being aware of those player perceptions, and designing the game in such a way as to make sure they don't succeed in leading players astray.

If you have a character class, or a piece of gear, or an ability or skill that has great mechanic potential, but which is unpopular with the player base, you're supposed to figure out why. If the numbers suggest it should be a popular pick, but no one plays it, you have to ask yourself what's stopping people from choosing it? If this thing is so great mechanically, why don't more people play?

If a certain mechanic gives a player a lot of power, but they don't feel powerful using it, that's a problem. This concept is called "Hidden Power", and it's something you want to try to limit in your games if you don't want people just glossing over whatever choices suffer from the greatest amounts of Hidden Power.

Imagine a movie hero throwing a punch, or shooting a gun, or setting off an explosion. Which feels more impactful to the viewer - a realistic sound effect, or a larger than life one? A world class boxer throwing a high power punch in reality doesn't make a very interesting sound, but take an untrained actor and add in a powerful booming burst like some angry deity slamming their car door and it just feels powerful, despite being the demonstrably inferior punch in every way.

A huge factor in what drives someone to choose one option over another is how those options feel. When you make one choice numerically superior but emotionally inferior to another, you doom the first choice to being ignored by all but the most efficiency minded number-crunchers and min-maxers, while the second, less efficient/effective/optimal choice sees soaring popularity.

Even when there isn't an actual disparity, a perceived disparity can ruin player enjoyment. Even if Hackers are technically powerful, if they don't feel powerful people won't enjoy playing them.

Hence why people complain about Hackers. They've always had "things to do in combat", but it never really felt like it. They've always been mechanically robust, but they've always seemed weak and limited. They've always brought a unique set of abilities to the table, but they've never made the average player want those abilities.

People want to play a Street Sam, because More Dakka™ is frelling cool. People want to play a sneak-thief bastard, because flipping out as a katana-wielding ninja or popping heads with a high-powered sniper rifle is just immensely satisfying. People want to play a master of arcane magics because dropping more lightning than Zeus tripping over a Tesla Coil is fragging sweet.

But people don't want to play Hackers, because all of their Power is Hidden from the player, and only those who dig far enough down to find, recognize, and appreciate it will ever bother choosing a Hacker over any other immediately more pleasurable option available to them.

~Umi

[Sengir]

I have to admit that I was more likely to buy Run and Gun before I saw the first preview, and each one makes me want to buy it less and less. Then again, if the next preview is just an article explaining that the Line Developer finally realized that firearms customization is idiotic in a system that's not already internally mechanically consistent, maybe I'll pick it up. But I doubt it. Instead, I'll see belt fed, full auto Rain Forest Carbines and Crocket EBRs.

There are just too many players who like to trick out their gear to abandon firearm mods...myself included, so I can't complain (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

What I can complain about, though, is that they're trying to tease a gear porn book with...no gear.

[BlackJaw]

I suspect Run & Gun won't alter the way Deckers currently provide matrix support to their team: which is through slaving devices to their (limited capacity for slaving) cyber-deck. There might be something that enhances how many devices they can slave through a plugin or software package, but I doubt they will drastically change much matrix wise in Run & Gun.

Tac-Net wise? I'd expect Leadership bonuses. Your PCC (Personnel Communications Console?) or whatever a Pi-Tac is may provide bonus dice and/or limit increases for making Leadership and/or teamwork tests, along possibly allowing teamwork from character not near each thanks to the wonders of AR. It's not flat bonus dice like the Tac-Nets of old, but it could prove useful for the team Face/Leader, especially with the Direct and Rally leadership actions.

[psychophipps]

Now, this probably makes me the minority, but pretty much all of our 4E deckers were also riggers, and vice versa. The rigger couldn't go against a dedicated decker for more than a few rounds, and vice versa, but it really cuts down on the ol' downtime when the decker is running a hound or scout micro-flyer.