Shadow Run Players guide, Good Players ?? Options

[Faster_Pussycat]

Now a game master does all the hard work, creates plot, makes new toys, keep track of the rules and stuff like that. And there are a lot of material to help the game master.

But where is the material to help the players ?

And i don't mean a handful of new guns....

[Raife]

You mean a "how to" guide for shadowrun players?

Well the "sprawl survival guide" is a huge help. I am thinking about a series of "how to twink" posts on my site, but that will have to back burner till the GM companion is done.

[Connor]

From the description in the Introduction to Mr. Johnson's Little Black Book, it sounds like the Anatomy of a Shadowrun section will be useful to both new GM's and Players.

Was there anything specific as far as a Player's Guide goes that you were looking for?

[Faster_Pussycat]

In short I want a guide to the players, that makes it clear that a character lives in dangerous time, with a dangerous job, and in a not to friendly world. And to keep this character alive and healthy, and a fat selection of tips and tricks to do that.

I was looking for something that could help a player to really flesh out his character, not just stats, guns and crome, but mentals, history and environment. something with a view on the shadowrun era with the mind and the eyes of a shadowrunner.

We know a lot of stuff about it, but mostly (in my oppinion) from a high point of view. What are the mental state of mind, what does it do to your character to be living on the edge of paranoia all the time. And what are the means to survive on a day to day basic.

I have been playing shadowrun from day one Shadowrun 1.Ed. hit Denmark, and mostly been the master. And I have had a realy hard time making the players "feel" the tension of the Shadowrun world.

well enough raving.. :cyber:

[MrSandman666]

As a warning: everything I write in this post has to be taken with a grain of salt since I'm currently incredibly tired, exhausted and overworked.

So, while I think this is an honorable mission, this is essentially what the BBB, the Shadowrun Companion and the Sprawl Survival guide (plus all the Seattle and Target: X sourcebooks) are for. Whether they do a good job or not is a matter of taste, really, but that's their purpose.

Now, what you write sounds appealing to me but I have a strange feeling that this isn't the direction Shadowrun is headed anymore. Granted, I'm bitter. I have been arguing in the "What's next in Shadowrun" Thread franticaly for a while until I gave up and finaly admitted that my view of Shadowrun as a dark, dirty, paranoic, angst-filled and hopeless world is pretty singled out and not officially pursued any more.

My point? While I do think it's a good idea to do this, I also think it's somewhat astray. I believe you're heading in a different direction than the official Shadowrun line is. The fact that the books I mentioned above don't fulfill your needs is just another piece of evidence. Their made to drag the player deeper into the game world, help them flesh out their characters, convey a feeling of the world (what you described as making it "clear that a character lives in dangerous time, with a dangerous job, and in a not to friendly world.").

The only possibility that comes to my mind that doesn't conflict the current development is if you really want to tell the player how a runner would realisticaly behave and feel in such a world, which in general amounts to telling the players how to play their characters - which is something any longtime GM wants to do sooner or later, me included.
However, I don't think this is a great idea. It's about having fun. You're not in a movie acting by a script, nor are you making a documentary or a simulation. It's a game and should be treated as such. Telling the players "You're not playing it right. A Shadowrunner would never do this!" is a sure way of losing players, IMHO, even if it's what you would wanna do as a GM. I can understand that, I'm in the same boat (long time GM, never get to be a player)
It's like telling a GM, "No, you're kewl plot can't work this way since this would never realisticaly happen". Really, giving a short run-down on the nuts and bolts of Shadowrunning is cool but telling a player how his character feels or what he thinks is never a good idea.

Conclusion: while I really, really like the concept in an emotional kind of way, my brain tells me that this might not be such a good idea after all since it will either conflict with the current overall mood and direction of the game or it will be a real turn-off for the players - or both.
I could be completely wrong though... Just my thoughts

[Faster_Pussycat]

Hey Sandmand

Point taken..

This is not about telling my players what to do or feel. It wont work any way, and as you say it is a game and its about having fun playing it. I could write a novel if I wanted to control every aspect of the story.

But in all games you do have some sort of help to play the game. In most games rules and playing pieces is enough, but this is a roleplaying game, and the lack of limits and the imagination of the player is the key to the fun.

The gamemaster sets the stage, but the players do the performance. I think that the SR universe is a really great stage, and as I see it, it has to be a grim and dark place to be, just look at the hooks, your are a hired Thug, yes i know shadowrunner has nice ring to it. but in the end you are a Thug. Not a fancy paladin or a bard on a quest for justice.

The official SR can change the world all they like, but it has not change the fact that the essential role the players have, are as Thugs, cyberet or magical enhanced, often freaks or misfits, showed no mercy by the people they work for or against.

I dont want to make SR into S.L.A Industries, but i would like to give the players a single book that could help them flesh out a character that lives and survives in this world, fine that there are several books they can read on part of the topic, but on top of keeping track of guns, vehicles and crome, magic and matrix gear, i think it would be nice to have a litte help, only for the player.

[MrSandman666]

Well, as I said, I believe that every single book ever released about Shadowrun (except those sections specificaly aimed for the GM) are there for exactly that purpose: to help the player. After all, if it's not adressed at the GM, who else would it be adressed at if not the players?

That was just to stress my point though and make it a bit more clear... and me having fun playing devil's advocate ;)

Anyways, regardles of those very rational points I've been trying to make (whether I made them succesfully I will not judge) I'm still anxious to see the finished product and as a pashionate GM it would be something that I would like to force my players to read until they know it by heart! :read:

So, good luck...

[Faster_Pussycat]

Thanks a lot... :S

Now where did I put that rope.. ?

[Rigged'n'Ready]

If your players really like the genre of the game, and you wish to impart a bit of the feeling into them. Ask them to read William Gibson's books. Neuromancer, burning chrome, mona lisa overdrive, virtual light, as well as other books ov the genre, ie do androids dream of electric sheep. This will give them a better understanding of what the world is like. Though none of these books have the fantasy elements in them, they are basically what inspired sr and cyberpunk.

[GenoSicK]

If you really want a unique book to explain what is a runner, where does he come from, and where does he go, give them the Sprawl Survival Guide, especially the section that describe a shadowrunners group from the inside... It contains everything you want and some more... ;)

[Fortune]

Plastic Rat used to have some Players' guide-type handouts made up. It might be worth your while to do a search on him, or even send him a message about them.

[lspahn72]

I have had a similair problem with newbies and D&D peeps... It is SOOOO important to understand the SR world before you play in it... Magic, Racism, Cyberware, The Balkanization of Just about everything, the new treats.... All these things have to be understood or, IMHO & at least in my experiences, the PCs dont feel threatened or the game get a generic feel to it.