Best Shadowrun sourcebook? Options

[Supercilious]

I am starting to "run" shadowrun with my gaming group, I have played before but never GM'd, I love the system from almost a year of player experience, but I want to know what the best book besides the "main" BBB is?

[Thanos007]

Cannon Companion because it has things in it that everyone can use.

Thanos

[Kanada Ten]

Best how? Like what are you looking for? More fluff, more stuff, more places, more mojo?

[Teulisch]

I would say Man & Machine, because of how much it adds to what you can do. not just the street sams, but anyone with some ware can benefit from it.

[Supercilious]

The most useful second book, in combination with the main.

Rephrased: If you could only own TWO SR3 books, which two would they be? (One must be main book).

[Tarantula]

Erm, depending if your group is mostly magical or not, M&M or MitS.

[Kanada Ten]

Yeah, Man and Machine or Magic in the Shadows. Though Cannon Companion is close behind... Actually, I want to suggest the Sprawl Survival Guide, but then again... God, only 2 Shadowrun books and one must be the Main? Cripies... <wishpers: Year of the Comet, no Dragons, no wait...> <sigh>

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

You really would consider DotSw or SSG? Wow.

Bug City--because it is the most well-written SR book to date.

[Slash_Thompson]

I would probably go for the BBB and then any one of the settings books (most likely New Seattle, but depending on where you were planning to run)

but then. I'm a sucker for lots of background detail in games.

[Tanka]

[Critias]

Cannon Companion, hands down. Combat rules revisions, new guns, gun creation rules, new melee weapons, new armor, armor modification rules, you name it. M&M or MitS would slant a game too much in my opinion -- either the mages or the mundanes would feel shafted, 'cause the GM had more info for the other half of the group. CC, all the way.

Though, that being said, those three would be ideal, being a sort of holy trinity (following the main book itself). See if you can find some used SR books on eBay or something, you might get luck an' score 'em for cheap (then all this soul searching and deliberation could end!).

[FrostyNSO]

I rate how useful the books are to the players and I by how worn they are, and how many pages are loose.

BBB of course is the most worn, has many loose pages, and I even had to buy a new one.

Cannon Companion is a close second, pretty well worn, and with quite a few pages hanging by a thread. One of the players bought a spare though (phew!).

Shadowrun Companion for some reason is very worn and has lots of loose pages, but I am positive my players got more use from the CC.

[Lafcadio]

Wow, only 2...

Of course the base book is enough to run by itself, but there is so much good stuff in the rest. If you have the base book already you could have you players check it out and see what types of characters they are interested in. If magic heavy---> MitS, cyber---> M&M, gritty badassness--->CC. Maybe you could coerce your players to buy one or two that would enhance their characters so you could go with a good source-book like SSG.

[Zen Shooter01]

Shadows of North America.

But if I were building a bigger SR library than just two books, I'd start with the BBB, then decide between SoNA or SoE.

Next, I'd look at my group to guide me, and pick which order I wanted M&M, MitS, CC, R3, and M in, and it would probably be in that order. But if three out of five PCs are riggers, I'd bump R3 to the top of the list. All deckers? M first.

After that, the SOTAs.

Then CD.

Then DotSW.

[Joe Outside]

By that criteria? Shadowrun Companion, as it's the most general. Then Sprawl Survival Guide. Then Mr. Johnson's Little Black Book. Then the mechanics supplements in whichever order is handiest.

[Adarael]

Most Useful for Players:
A toss up - Man and Machine, or Magic in the Shadows, with Man and Machine edging slightly ahead. While magicians can get cyberware toys at a slight magic cost, mundanes can't get magic toys at a slight cyberware costs.

Most Useful for New GMs:
Sprawl Survival Guide. This'll teach your ass how to make the world *work*, and what living in it is like.

Most Useful for Old GMs:
SoNA. It's like all the stuff I love about the SOTA: XX, old NAN, Neo-Anarchist and Threats books rolled into one. What's going on with your world? Look here.

Just Plain Best Written:
Tir Tairngire. Say what you will about the metaplot - love it or hate it, this was the beginning, in my opinion, of when they decided Shadowrun needed a coherent string of events to tie it together. Still one of my favorite RPG books ever.

You'll Pry It From My Cold, Dead Hands:
Fields of Fire. I don't know why. I just love this book. I don't even use it for stats... I just love it.

[Paul]

Best for enjoyment? Universal Brotherhood and Bug City.

Best for a new GM to start up a new campaign? BBB, followed by either Sprawl Survival Guide, or the Companion. Add MiTS, CC, M&M, R3R and you've got just about everything you need to run any SR character you need.

[Supercilious]

I love M&M... I love it like the children I do not have...

I think, however, I will go with Sprawl Survival Guide. I do, however, intend to get new books about once a month or so, 'till I have the full collection.

[Ombre]

For a beginning Shadowrun GM I would say either "Sprawl Survival Guide" for a broad description of what living in the runnin'2060s feels like or "Mr Johnson's Little Black Book" for the thorough description of the anatomy of a shadowrun from the beginning to the (happy) end...fluff indeed, but useful fluff nonetheless (I like the word "fluff" which I didn't know about just a few weeks ago...just a French runner, you know... :D )

But for pure solid rules I would also recommend Man and Machine or Magic in the Shadows but I would be hard pressed to choose between those two. The former gives an insight into what is technically/scientifically possible in the game world in various fields (cybernetics, biotech, genetics, chemistry and even nanotech) while the latter explores what makes Shadowrun a different game from other cyberpunk rpgs : Magic with all its implications in a modern world...
Matrix and Target :Matrix are very good books to get a good perception of how the global telecommunication network has changed the way people live, and not only shadowrunners...

Then you have 25+ background sourcebooks giving a global vision of the Sixth World , as some people said: Shadows of North America and its across-the-pond twin brother Shadows of Europe which are both invaluable sources of information for beginners (and nice updates for the old guard who have all the Native American Nations , Neo Anarchist's Guide to North America , London Sourcebook and other Tir na nOgs )

I agree Bug City is a very good book, but its usefulness could be debated if our friend intends to start his campaign in 2060 (which is very likely)

Anyway, I almost envy you for the pleasure of taking your first steps into this world we have been exploring for the past 15 years....As a famous elf would put it: "it's going to be a hell of a ride"

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Cynic project]

I would have to say that there is not best source books, but there are ones that you only need to fill out the rest. The dragon book, is nice to have and puts a whole lot of plot ideas, but it is not needed, the same for just about every story source book. But Then you have the rule books,and if you are running a game where all the players want to be riggers, then MITS is not the book for you.If you are playing a game where everyone wants to be voodoo people, then M&M is not for you.If you are playing a game where the players want to be super spies, I wouldn't put CC up for the top spot either.

For the games I have played in I would say that more people use M&M over any other book, but I use at least four books for any character I make.Most of the time I use around 7.

[Paul]

Bug City just reads well. You can read it just like a short story. The Tir books were okay, but I didn't, and don't keep a copy of them in the bathroom, or by my bed just to reread.

[Cynic project]

The tir books have this one problem. If you read them you must embrace the IE plot line. You then must look at humans at pathetic morons who were lead by a group of elves for thousands of years, and didn't do anything worth talking about from the time earth dawn ended to about 40 years before the game world started.

This is just how i have read them,and frankly I do not so much mind the fact that IEs are around, but mroe that they did so much when there were so few of them.

[Adarael]

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

UB was published in 1990. CS and TT both came out in 1993, at around the same time. I won't hazard a guess as to which came first since I was in a bit of a FGS limbo when they came out and didn't buy them until the mid-90s.

But, really, the plotline TT introduces is *ahem* lame.

[Adarael]

Really? 1990?
Jesus, when was the first printing of Double Exposure, then? I'd always assume it was late 2nd edition, due to the use of Fields of Fire weaponry and items... Yet the UB is still up and kicking, with nobody the wiser about it.

Yeah, the IE plotline needs some work before it can approach usable. I treat it the same way I treat all Illuminati-style plotlines: "Yeah, this is what SOME people thing. Or maybe this is just the disinformation they're giving you!" Because you know what? The idea that almost none of humanity's innovation in the 5th world was actually developed by humans, and was secretly 'gifted' by the IEs, really freaking bothers me.

[Sepherim]

Returning to the initial idea of the post, I'd go for New Seattle, probably, or Corporate Download. Most basic background is in there, and background is always more important than rules.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Double Exposure was released in 1994. Bug City in 1995 (at GenCon, IIRC).

UB is definitely a SR1 book. It looks like it in format, and feels like it in tone.

[Paul]

[Fix-it]

Renraku Arcology Shutdown.
Three hundred and forty levels of pure terror.

Nothing like a good survival/horror story. :D

[Mercer]

Even though I don't like the IE plotline and wouldn't use it, I still liked the original Tir book. Even of you didn't use any of the hooks in it, I still put it as the most effective SB for instilling in game paranoia in people.

If, in addition to the SR3 I could only have one book, I probably wouldn't pick MITS, M&M or CC, because-- as mentioned-- they're like the holy trinity of SR. To add one is to add them all, because they all enhance one aspect of the game. Same goes for either Rigger3 or the new Matrix book.

I'd have to pick a seperate location book to set the campaign in. CalFree, Cyberpirates, and so on. Wherever I was going to base the game, I'd want a book on. Aztlan, Tir Tairngire, London, SOE, SoNa, et al. A Sr game is a hell of a thing to get involved in without some sort of back up in terms of locations, background and adventure hooks.

[Thistledown]

M&M. Maybe just for the chemistry stuff alone. The BBB gives you what you need to get by as a mage, but not nearly enough to get by as a sam.

So, BBB, then M&M, then CC, then Mits. After that, R3. Only get M if there's a lot of deckers in your party. Oh, after R3, critters. Can't forget the critters.

[Kagetenshi]

I'm going to say Matrix, personally. That or Shadowrun Companion; Companion may actually edge Matrix out because it has the point-build system.

~J

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Adarael]

It isn't just you, I assure you.

Being a born and bred Californian from the Bay Area, some of the stuff they wrote about the Bay was just absolutely freaking retarded.

[Thistledown]

Being from San Jose, I can see ares taking over silicon valley though.

[Cynic project]

Maybe I haven't said it loud enough, but the people who wrote shadowrun hate California. They don't know it,and have been pissing on it for the whole shadowrun timeline.

[Jérémie]

Corporate Download.

[Cynic project]

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Cynic project]

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...wtopic=6307&hl= look for it..It is not hard to see my point of view.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Ah. I never read that thread.

[CircuitBoyBlue]

Anyone who recognizes my name from elsewhere on these boards is probably going to be suprised by this because almost all of my posts are vitriolic rants against the metaplot (heck, I posted one like 20 minutes ago in the "what would you change" thread), but I LOVE the Tir Tairngire sourcebook. I wouldn't classify it as the most useful book, but I thought I should derail the thread just a tad to add my voice to those that dislike the metaplot and still see the TT book as valuable. Aside from the metaplot (which is pretty much entirely drawn from the shadowtalk), the book lays out what appears to be a well thought-out governmental system that doesn't work (which is hard to do). It's not author's version of Utopia, but it's also not just "uh, these elves claim power and rule the land" It goes into more detail about daily life than any other location sourcebook I can think of, including the books that cover Seattle and N America. This is perfectly understandable, because the entire basis of the Tir regime is that they've managed, at least to some degree, to "create" an entire new social order, albeit one stolen from various sources then smashed together with a little bit entirely new. This social order may not be perfect, and is almost certainly doomed to failure. It reminds me of North Korea, in a way. It works, but only in the sense that it's leaders have managed to hang on to power despite the fact that nothing works. TT is better off than that, but so was N Korea when it first started out, I think (not a Korea historian, so just use my perceptions of the situation for analogy purposes). The TT sourcebook gave me the impression that things are going well for the Tir now (2055, I think), but there were some serious flaws in the system that were ultimately going to bring it down. That kind of thing is a lot harder to write than your idea of a system that works perfectly or a system that doesn't work at all.

[The Question Man]

The Old "Seattle Sourcebook"

Cheers

QM

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

The difference between TT and North Korea is that the PRC and USSR didn't spend 40 years funneling money to TT, and PRC to this day.

[CircuitBoyBlue]

Ah, true. But I think they explained where all the money came from pretty well, as I recall. You're right, though, it probably doesn't add up to as much help as the USSR gave N Korea, so that probably is a fault in the book. A rather minor one, though, in my opinion.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

That's what hand-waving is for.

[Cynic project]

My brains hurts. I mean that was just painful to read. I know my posts are bad, but really I think CircuitBoyBlue needs to learn when to use Enter.