 FanPro D Newsletter May 2005, Otaku in SR4! |
 May 4 2005, 04:15 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537  |
The current FanPro D newsletter can be found here (in German, of course).
It talks about the new SR4 matrix and gives excerpts from the SR4 core book. Interesting information: Not only hackers manipulate the wireless matrix - the "children of the matrix" (Otaku) still exist. But now they are adults and are called "Technomancers"! |
 |
 
|
 |
Replies
(1 - 99)
|
May 4 2005, 04:16 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
So no more fading? I dunno, but I think that was half the interest of playing an otaku. Slowly losing your abilities until you had to rely on a deck.
It's not even out yet and I'm already missing the "old days." |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 04:25 PM
Post
#3
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
And a very rough altavista-translation (sounds very funny, but it should give an idea) ;)
Perhaps someone can translate it more correctly? SYL |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 04:50 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I hate the term "WiFi" so very, very much.
Definitely seems to support the idea that SR4 is taking a transhumanist turn. I suppose we'll see. ~J |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 04:52 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 639 Joined: 22-April 02 Member No.: 2,638 |
Sounds like they're definitely going with a GITS-like augmented reality. Being able to hack a person's PAN seems very likely. There's even a hint of being able to hack cyberware (thru a headware commlink, at least).
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 05:35 PM
Post
#6
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Part One: THE MATRIX IS DEAD - LONG LIVE THE MATRIX! After the collapse of the traditional "wired" Matrix in 2065 quite some things changed in the digital shadows. The old Matrix with its datajacks, cyberdecks and kilometers of optical cables exists no longer. Its place has been taken by a world of wireless communication (WiFi = Wireless Fidelity) and an enhanced electronic perception (AR = Augmented Reality). In the 4th edition of Shadowrun every citizen is a fixed part of this encompassing data world, the rich as well as the poor, the honest ones as well as the bad guys. Those who run the shadows have learned to use the wireless world to their advantage. Those "Hackers" are specialised in data manipulation, controlling programs and machines and obtaining data thought stored safely. But the hackers are not the only specialists of this digital realm. "Technomancer" - the grown-up children of the Matrix - are able to manipulate the wireless world with the power of their mind alone. Both hackers and technomancers are specialised in entering and exploiting wireless WiFi networks. They serve their shadowrunner team not only with their ability to break security systems and obtain important data but also by leading whole armies of drones into battle and entering a direct connection with their vehicles that make even highly cybered street samurais turn pale. Most importantly, hacker and technomancer are no longer bound to the inflexible cyberdecks and wired systems their predecessors had to cope with. They are now highly mobile and fully integrated members of their shadowrunner team. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 05:43 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 16-March 05 Member No.: 7,178 |
heh, The first thing my shadowrunner will do is learn enough electronics to stripout all those "hidden computers" so he can't be tracked by them.
Seems like fakeID's just became much more important. ECM devices are now like bombs! Start one up and watch a area go black. No data for you! |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 05:48 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Part Two:
UBIQUITOUS COMPUTER WORLD In the year 2070 computer-controlled devices are so ubiquitous they are everywhere. Every kind of electronics is controlled by highly integrated processors that are wirelessly connected to other devices and networks around them. Computers can be found in pieces of clothing, cars, firearms, chairs, toilets, doors - everywhere. They are so common and ubiquitous that most people have already forgotten being surrounded by computers at all times. Protocols, frequencies and transactions are standardised so it rarely poses a problem to let two random devices talk to each other. You want to read your emails while preparing food? No problem, just project them to your fridge's holo-display. Or listening to the new favorite song while on a 'run? No problem, send the audio data to the pistol's speakers via commlink and make the dolls dance! |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 05:53 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Part Three:
PERSONAL AREA NETWORKS (PANs) The average person in the year 2070 carries with him a bunch of computer-controlled devices which are united into that person's micro network: the Personal Area Network (PAN). This gives a number of advantages like file sharing, data backups and comfortable control of one device through another. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 06:10 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Part Four:
COMMLINKS Commlinks are the ultimate PAN devices and are used by everybody. They are a combination of wireless router, mobile phone, video camera, PDA (Personal Data Assistant), chip reader, purse/credstick and mobile game device all in a single highly integrated unit that can be carried in a trouser pocket, mounted on the belt or wrist. Commlinks are available in an overwhelming variety of shapes, sizes, colors and functions from stylised headsets and jewelry to cranial implants and devices woven into clothing's fabric. Commlinks are the center of a PAN and allow access to all devices connected to the PAN. Talking on the phone, playback of a video file recorded earlier, running cyberware diagnostics, checking a drone's fuel reserves or configuring the alarm clock - all this and much more can be done comfortably with the commlink. Furthermore, commlinks allow a continuous wireless access to the surrounding world. Not only can messages be sent, data be transfered or requested from the Matrix, it is also possible to access wireless devices and networks - whether near or far - be it a shop's catalogue, the PAN of a friend, touristical information broadcast from sight-seeing locations or the Matrix activities of that sweet guy at the café. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 06:25 PM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Part Five:
AUGMENTED REALITY (AR) For most inhabitants of the world of 2070 the Matrix is no place to go to but a digital parallel world that overlays the user's natural senses. Data from the Matrix is selected via commlink and then displayed by a variety of interface devices. Data received from the Augmented Reality can be freely selected or blocked by the user. While two AR users could both see a restaurant's virtual menu only one of them hears his incoming call's ringtone, etc. The most basic form of Augmented Reality are visual objects known as AROs (Augmented Reality Objects aka "Arrows"). Visual data is received by the user and then displayed by his cybereyes, AR goggles or contact lenses or directly projected to his retina by a laser. The data appears as ghostly pictures or text in the user's field of vision and can then be repositioned or converted as he sees fit. Current tasks are displayed in the FOV's center (transparent so the real world beyond is still visible) while everything else can be repositioned to the periphery where it's not in the way. |
|
|
|
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 4 2005, 06:28 PM
Post
#12
|
|
Guests |
I don't know whether or not to be glad there are no surprises so far with this stuff.
I mean, commlink, gee, I don't know. I wish I had something like that in my 3e games. Oh, wait... |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 07:00 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Is it just me, or does this stuff not seem even remotely plausible given only a 5-year jump in timeline?
We're going from a world in which display and image links were different pieces of cyeber to pervasive augmented reality in 5 years? (less really, considering the amount of time that'll inevitably be wasted running in circles screaming when the Matrix goes down and everything goes tits-up?) And runners are supposed to buy into this BS wholesale, never mind the way it all screams "security risk"? Also, does anyone else think that "technomancers" are just about one of the worst ideas you've ever heard of? Making magic and technology more and more interchangeable only serves to undermine the most important thing that actually makes SR different from every other cyberpunk-ish setting... Hey, I have an idea - let's allow mundane "nanomancers" to wirelessly control nanobot swarms that'll let you do all kinds of neat stuff like superheat the air in a given area, or shock someone's nervous system with electricty, or bend the light around you to make you disappear, or dissolve the bullet flying at you in midair, or bond to your body to make you stronger, or attach to someone else and probe their nervous system, reading their mind! Wouldn't that be just fucking awesome? :S |
|
|
|
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 4 2005, 07:07 PM
Post
#14
|
|
Guests |
No, because AR is within the realm of reality. "Nanomancers," as the preceding thread has shown, aren't.
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 07:09 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Winston Salem, NC Member No.: 1,359 |
M¥$T1C, thanks. My German really sucks (I have never had any classes or been to Germany), and I appreciate the translation. My Spanish is decent, which for a white American male is a little out of the norm. I am guessing that those that visit this board are, for the most part, out of the norm in some way. :D
Very interesting information. I like/dread what I am seeing. There are definite aspects that are very appealing (virtual overlay) and others that are going to be worrisome to deal with (overabundance of processors and connections via wifi). It will be interesting, and I will reserve final judgment until I get the final product. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 07:13 PM
Post
#16
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Thank you for missing the point... |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 07:22 PM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 |
Am I the only one that noticed that Technomancers manipul;ate the matrix with ONLY the power of their brains? No cyberware? How does being able to perform computations like a computer with your brain evolve into the ability to remotely control machines with your brain?!?
Doom I say!!! DOOOOOOM!!!! |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 07:25 PM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
The techno manners could still be ok, provided they are actually no more magical than otaku where, then, like the otaku, they will merely be an annoyance.
My difficulty is the idea of a pervasive augmented reality. There are several problems with it. One: the cost, in the world of SR there are supposed to be a lot of poor. Anybody that can get an interface unit for the WMI within 5 years and doesn’t sell it is not living a street or squatter lifestyle, many with a low lifestyle will also not be able to afford it (those that do purchased them “used” from a squatter that “found” it. There will also be purists that will shun the technology so rules for people that refuse to have such devises will be needed Two: it doesn’t (in itself) mach the purpose of the matrix, the matrix is a mass telecommunications system, it would cost a lot of nuyen to make something (say a wall menu) an ARO especially considering not everybody will be able to see it. At eth same time doing so dose not allow your customers to access the menu from outside your store. Regardless of what it gains the matrix MUST retain its primary function, that being to share and access data over long distances. Edward |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 07:33 PM
Post
#19
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
the thing is, this text dont say shit about how the tecnomancers work. most likely its similar to todays otakus in that they can use a simple translator and their brain talks "comlink". basicly a lot of fluff but no meat at this point.
this seems similar to blue planet, but i guess that augmented reality and comlinks are being more and more the norm in near future sci-fi. just take a look at the cellphone of today and add a highcapacity bluetooth-like short range link (2-3 meters or so) to the mix. the only problem i have is with the contacts, how are they powerd? but thats kinda the same question i have about cyberlimbs :P as long as the world we all know and love survives all this intact i have a feel that sr4 is going to be a good thing :P |
|
|
|
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 4 2005, 07:34 PM
Post
#20
|
||||||
|
Guests |
I got your point. That was the only part of your post worth responding to.
|
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
May 4 2005, 07:37 PM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
that newsletter is not very encouraging but thanks for posting.
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 07:47 PM
Post
#22
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 12-April 02 From: the shadows.... Member No.: 2,548 |
Technology like evolution does not proceed in clearly deliniated paths, rather it can grow by incredible leaps. And how can you define "remotely plausible" for a fictional game based in the future? Hell, functioning cyberlimbs, cybereyes, datajacks, etc could be considered not even "remotely plausible". |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 07:47 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
Why is it that all the details are being released in German but English-speakers don't get the same love?:-/
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 07:54 PM
Post
#24
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Ok, care to tell me a single thing a human brain has in common with a computer in terms of their methods of processing information, aside from the fact that they both do it? It's like saying a horse-drawn carriage and a jet powered car are alike because they both move on wheels. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 07:55 PM
Post
#25
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Well, you got that Loose Alliances preview PDF, didn't you? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 07:58 PM
Post
#26
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
I simply mean, "plausible given what we know about how the SR world works". Clearly, a place incorporating magic and dragons isn't plausible in any sort of real-world sense, but you'd presumably have no problems if I complained about the plausibility of someone killing a great dragon with a sniper rifle, would you? (and "plausible" is so much easier to type than "it has verisimilitude".:)) |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
May 4 2005, 08:07 PM
Post
#27
|
|||||||||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 12-April 02 From: the shadows.... Member No.: 2,548 |
I really don't see any difficulties here with reguard to the poor. I envision not having a commlink as pretty similar to not having a SIN in the current SR world of the 2060s. IE, the corporate world saying: "You don't got one, we dont' want to deal with you." But as far as the cost of getting one...well there are already all kinds of price disparities in SR3 with necessary cyberware for sammies costing enough to feed families for years (so why even buy it). And Pocket Secretaries costing several 1000¥, yet everyone is supposed to have one...and other oddities. As far as the purists go, I could really see that happening. No fraggin' way would I want some piece of tech constantly broadcasting my information to anyone savvy enough to hack into it...let alone having a commlink installed internally (just so it can't be stolen). And then I would suppose those purists would run into the same problem as the poor when attempting to conduct day to day business. With the purist I could see a social attitude arrising against them much like it does today against people who choose not to have a TV or choose not to watch the latest and greatest shows. "What you do watch Survivor! What's wrong with you?"
Of course by 2070, the definition of "the Matrix" has apparently changed. But not by much. It is still used to gather and share information, its just that information takes on a much broader meaning. And as far as expense, that is relative; fifteen years ago it was expensive to have a website designed, now nearly anyone can do it, thus cost drops. Much like IC and system design in SR3, the good, unique, or interesting ones will cost a pretty ¥, but there are boring standards that anyone has access to for extremely low rates...I would imagine the same for most AROs.
Why not? Everything is wireless. The menu is broadcasted blocks away. This allows you to brouse the menu while you are en-route, call in the order on your commlink before you get there, and then by the time you arrive and are seated your food is ready. Although the purist would have a hard time as he sits down and politely asks the nearest server, "Excuse me, can I get a menu..." to which he is greated with confused stares...
And what about adding ARO takes away the "primary fuction" of the Matrix. It still does that, and on an even broader scale... |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
 May 4 2005, 08:13 PM
Post
#28
|
|||||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 12-April 02 From: the shadows.... Member No.: 2,548 |
Ah, ok...a bit of misunderstanding your words :) But of course what we know about how the SR world works could be radically changed. Either naturally so due to the most recent crash and an extreme glut of new tech to deal with the fallout (necessity is the mother of invention after all), or because the designers waved a magic wand and said "Abra-capocus"....I'd prefer the former...but would be upset by the latter.
Well gosh...I guess I would want to know was the bullet made of Oricalcum and fired from and enchanted oricalcum rifle...and did the shooter have high levels of physical adept abilities to raise his Rifle skill? 8) |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
May 4 2005, 08:19 PM
Post
#29
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 12-April 02 From: the shadows.... Member No.: 2,548 |
PS: Why is it I get a very Ghost in the Shell feeling while reading the newsletter and the phrase "Hacked his cyberbrain..." keeps echoing in my head...??
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 08:39 PM
Post
#30
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Odd. Technomancer screams to me of d20 Modern. Maybe because it's a class in it. Meh.
But, seriously, they're changing definitions. I can see why. In the 80s, a hacker was a very heavily used word that meant somebody who broke into secure systems illegally to commit (oftentimes) criminal acts. Now, a hacker is the same, though most people don't have the fear of a "hacker" that they did in the 80s. Now a hacker is just another "punk kid" that got his hands on some neato toys and poked at a few open ports. Then there's the switch from otaku to technomancer. Nowadays, an otaku is generally seen as some fat kid still living in his parents' basement watching subbed anime and eating nothing but pizza and chips, occasionally going outside to get to his friend's house to play D&D. When you say "decker" referring to one who uses a portable computer (laptop, anyone?) to compromise secure systems, people get confused. Now you say hacker and everybody gets it. When you say "otaku" referring to one who uses their mind to compromise secure systems, they think you're batshit crazy since everybody knows fat anime/dnd geeks don't do anything illegal. Now when you say technomancer, people ask what you mean and then they get it. I can see how the new terms will draw in new players, but that doesn't mean I won't miss them and occasionally find myself backtracking after using old terminology to explain something to somebody who has only played 4th edition. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 08:46 PM
Post
#31
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hmm, should i correct tanka about the meaning of hacker or not? nah, i dont feel like being that much of a pain...
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 08:49 PM
Post
#32
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
I know what a hacker really is, but most people don't know it. Most people think a hacker is some kid who breaks into secure systems and commits crimes.
I know a hacker is somebody that (more or less) codes. I consider myself a hacker in the fact that I code in a few languages and know a fair amount of "computer stuff." Do I tell this to people on the fly? No, I say that I'm a computer geek. Why? You say you're a hacker and people get all antsy and freaked out and probably consider calling the police. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 10:10 PM
Post
#33
|
|||
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
if true, that would possibly be the stupidest thing i've ever heard in relation to SR4. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 10:29 PM
Post
#34
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,118 |
Silence, you. When the day of the technomancer-magician-adepts (who aren't Leonardo, his telepathically linked uberdeck sounds suspiciously like the technomancer bare-brain hacking) comes, you will be the first against the wall !! |
||
|
|
|
||
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 4 2005, 10:32 PM
Post
#35
|
||||||||||
|
Guests |
Let me make it more clear, also. You made two fatal errors: One was a fallacy of assumption, and the second was the false analogy. You assume that the wording infers that there is no interface between Technomancers and the wireless Matrix because it says that they can interface with it through the power of their minds. That is pretty much the same description of Otaku as-is, but there is still an interface required for them to access the Matrix. Secondly, the Nanomancer concept you suggested is a false analogy because it builds on this apparent assumption to suggest that it should be possible for them or some other persons unknown to communicate with nanites without the use of any interface device, which goes back to that first error. BTW, I love how this comes much closer to proving my three speculations correct. Now I just need to find confirmation on the other one.
I find this rather disturbing insofar as the datajack has proven to be the most efficient method of interaction between the user and outside information. Sure, there will be commlink cyberware, but call me cynical but it's probably not going to be 0.20 essence for that. I don't doubt that 'jacks will still be around, but... it's so inefficient to appeal to people who don't have them to the same degree as the umpteen bajillion people with them in 3e or people who get cybercommlinks. Ewww. Just... Ewww. Unless they have wireless datajacks, which I see no reason for there not to be. That'd be an upgrade a long time coming. I mean, some other people here can attest to my optimal cybernetic communications suite, and the last thing that would go into a PC's brain pan would be the actual emitting device. I don't like the idea of an internal cybercommlink, but a DNI connection is a given for any hacker worth a piss. I also think it's a bit premature to talk about the demise of a system which by the mid-60s should have been able to provide power and voice/data connections through one cord (kind of like how it's possible right now). The damn battery cartel will have a field day, but to suggest those wires are just gone is just... stupid. How else are you going to recharge your commlink?
Blocks? It's put on the Matrix for anyone to Google, like now. The ARO is more convenient when coupled with GPS to provide a (literally) pointing arrow to a restaurant you've never been to before. I like that SR finally caught up to modern-day. I think it could be handled without a Crash or whatever System Failure is going to be. I had no problem introducing the commlink in my gaming and stories as a digital hub (Which as a term has only been around since at least when the iMac came out) with varying degrees of augmented reality saturation around. You don't need to kill the Matrix. They should have just killed the idea that rigging and decking aren't close enough to be synergized with almost no trouble back in Rigger 2. |
||||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||||
|
May 4 2005, 10:48 PM
Post
#36
|
|||
|
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Eh, I doubt it. I'd say that they're basically the equivalent to Otaku vs. Keckers in "today's" Matrix: one is dependent on *more* machines than the other is. Otaku still need a datajack and an ASIST converter; I imagine that Technomancers still require some sort of wireles link device.
As for the cost of a commlink, how many of you out there bought your cell phone? Now, how many of you, instead of actually buying the thing outright, got it "with new two year contract" basically for free, buying the phone on essentially a lease-to-own plan? That's where I see SR4 Commlinks going, for the most part: the vast majority of people that buy their Commlink did it by signing their life away to a provider for X number of years (5 would probably do it). Only the richest technophiles and those most concerned with getting a pay-as-you-go plan with no strings attached (read: Shadowrunners) would actually go around buying new Commlinks without the plan attached. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 11:02 PM
Post
#37
|
|||||
|
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Looking past the hype, I'm dead certain they're not getting rid of datajacks entirely. You just don't need to physically tether yourself to the cyberdeck, and from the cyberdeck into the wall, to get your ARO to work. I can imagine in fact that most people will be doing what I currently do with my character: plug a DNI pocket secretary (Commlink) into their datajack and use that + image link to access ARO. The (until now) enormous Essence cost of any sort of implanted wireless transmitter will no doubt carry over to the 2070s, so I doubt we'll see the majority of people with a comm device actually implanted in their heads. This is particularly true as the technology for these Commlinks will be undoubtably be updating every few years or so--rather like cell phones nowadays--and the average person doesn't want to commit to going under the knife every couple of years. All you actually need to actually implant at the minimum is the mind-machine interface, and that means the datajack. Further datajacks will still be necessary for *real* Matrix interaction, with the RAS override and such, which isn't just going to go away. We hope, anyway; ARO is a great metaphor for interacting with things in close proximity, but it sucks if you're talking about stuff whose physical location is far away or doesn't exist. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 4 2005, 11:10 PM
Post
#38
|
||
|
Guests |
I don't know. I look at the number of people I know or know of who bought the RAZR because it was cool, or the fact that just about every lawyer in the country has a Blackberry or something like it, or the jagoffs with the Sidekick II, or the people who used Gizmodo and Engadget like a catalog, and I think you might want to tone down the exagerration about "Only the richest technophiles" would have them. People buy all sorts of crazy shit that they can't afford, usually on credit. The entire U.S. economy is predicated on that fact. Oh, and I agree with everything you wrote in your second post. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 4 2005, 11:30 PM
Post
#39
|
|
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
This thread has done nothing to allay my fears that the book coming out soon will not be SR except in name only.
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 11:32 PM
Post
#40
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 778 Joined: 6-April 05 Member No.: 7,298 |
The problem with augmented reality is that it's not economically feasible to augment reality outside of heavily developed areas. I don't think you're going to go walking in the NAN wilderness and get a nifty little HUD display saying "Swainson's Thrush (Catharus ustulatus)" with an arrow pointing to a little bird sitting in the tree, which is itself annotated with "Douglas Fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii)". So the degree of augmentation is necessarily rather limited.
Fortunately for "hackers" and "technomancers", most shadowruns take place around advanced technology, which will give them something to do. But the setting needs to acknowledge the limits of AR: it would be really hard to swallow that every species of beetle in Amazonia and every ancient, battered trid set in Africa has been labeled with metadata or outfitted with wireless matrix interface technology. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 11:45 PM
Post
#41
|
|
|
Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
I don't see a shadowrunner wanting to walk around connected to the WWW all the time by his WiFi devices. It screams "follow my every move, track me where ever I go".
I would sacrifice the minor and completly mundane advantages of being connected to the world wide WiFi for the ability to not be tracked and hunted down by my shoes. From this point on all my characters are going to have a hobby of collecting old firearms to avoid the micro "tracking" computers in the modern ones. Or in other words, more lameness from SR4. *Waves bye to Shadowrun* *Waves hello to SR4/WoD/D20 modern game* |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 11:51 PM
Post
#42
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
You mean d20 Modern + Urban Arcana, I assume?
NEW RACES FOR SR! BUGBEARS, AASIMAR AND TIEFLING, OH MY! |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2005, 11:55 PM
Post
#43
|
|||
|
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Well naturally. By the way, did you know that currently you don't get cell phone coverage on over half--indeed the majority, in fact--of the land area of the United States? How many people buy cell phones and still find them useful every day? Hype about, "ARO is everywhere!" of course implies "ARO is everywhere [important]!" I can gaurontee you there won't be any reliable ARO hubs in the Barrens, just like there's no reliable Gridguide in the Barrens. As for the "Everything has Wifi access" statement above, I'm almost certain that's going to be hyperbole, as it's not even close to necessary and indeed can be an incredibly bad move to have Wifi access on say a handgun or clothing. In the same way my "Only the richest technophiles" statement is hyperbole; all I was saying is that the majority of people probably won't buy their commlinks outright, in the same way that the majority of people didn't buy their cell phones outright today. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 12:27 AM
Post
#44
|
|||
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
sorry, im just in a bad mood whenever i read hacker lately in any similar context. the post should not have been made... |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 12:33 AM
Post
#45
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
It happens, I usually correct people when they use hacker incorrectly as well.
I was merely putting it in a "public light" manner, reading it as Joe Average would read it. |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 12:42 AM
Post
#46
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
and about ARO (o? must have missed something, i cant figure out what that o is for) and using it to send out stuff like menus. think of it like the people that stand out on the street handing out small menus or similar to people that pass by.
sure you can put the menu out on the net and hook it to a gps location so that people can ask "where is a place to eat that serve x food and is close by?". but you may allso walk by it at some other time, get a small beep and a indication that the comlink have downloaded something, basicly the menu in electronic form. maybe you can leave a order while your doing other stuff and then get a message when its ready to serve or be picked up. there have been plans to outfit movie posters and similar with bluetooth devices that constantly send out a data signal to any passing device able to pick up bluetooth push traffic. only problem is that the signup time for bluetooth at the moment is to long for this to work effectivly. |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 01:05 AM
Post
#47
|
|
|
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
ARO = Augmented Reality Objects (though I like to think of it as "Augmented Reality Overlay", but it's the same thing)
|
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 01:40 AM
Post
#48
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 1,525 |
Why have the comlink beep when you walk by? Why not just have rendered examples of the food cooked inside, complete with smell if anyone is running hot enough to pick it up. Basically ARO allows you to create displays and signs that would be impossible otherwise. Sure if you want to actually query for the full menu you can, but advertising that attempts to push full information doesn't work. It is impression, stimulation, and direction that sells things.
|
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 01:53 AM
Post
#49
|
|||
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yes, because corporations and governments have the processing power, time, and inclination to track down every minor threat that pops up--and runners will, of course, have no resources available to them to bypass or negate such telltales. and, as well, SSG doesn't detail technologies that can already do pretty much everything you're talking about, albeit at a less fine level of detail. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 02:22 AM
Post
#50
|
|||
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
it was the fastest example that i could think of :P till, having a simsense feed that plays a smell for those thats wired for that would be nice, maybe as a replacement for the beep for those that are wired. rember that you can wear contacts that overlay visual info rather then being wired for full sim so therefor you need to have multiple layers of getting the message thru. think of it this way, it draws your attention to something and you can deal with it at your own time (alltho knowing how most people react to text messages on their cell its a accident waiting to happen). thats the whole point. and with a menu (complete with real life images of the dishes they serve and so on. alltho its a message dont mean it have to be all text, we are talking sci-fi after all) transferd you can examine prices and so on when you feel like it (even if your in a area with matrix access as the menu is allready in your comlinks memory). think about the image of some runners on a job with some downtime: r1: hmm, anyone feel like getting some food after the jobs done? r2: sure, got any ideas? r1: well i got a menu on my comlink from a place we passed on the way here. food looks good and prices are ok. hey, they have a all-you-can-eat option that even allow trolls and orc! r3: sounds great, i need a proper meal. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 03:12 AM
Post
#51
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Roger that..... |
||
|
|
|
||
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 5 2005, 03:17 AM
Post
#52
|
||||
|
Guests |
I'm curious how much of the world you could track if you told YKK to implant RFID (or eqv.) in every product they make.
Actually, I see it more like the guy in the Mexican wrestler mask wearing a sandwich board who stands in the median of a busy street advertising a local Mexican restaurant (This is quite possibly the worst job in the city in summer), although it's just a slightly twisted take on your example. One of the things I think should be clarified is that you still have to take the menu from them, same as you would IRL or in SR pre-AR. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
May 5 2005, 03:23 AM
Post
#53
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Probably a very large majority of it.
Granted, the moment people found out and there was a public outcry, YKK would be out of business and another company would be supplying all those tiny parts. |
|
|
|
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 5 2005, 03:28 AM
Post
#54
|
|
Guests |
Well, that assumes people ever found out. Even if they did... Maybe. I mean, I think Wal-Mart is the devil incarnate, but I still shop there.
|
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 03:29 AM
Post
#55
|
|
|
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
ARO = Augmented Reality Object
|
|
|
|
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 5 2005, 03:41 AM
Post
#56
|
|
Guests |
OBTW, I know this is going to sound radical--crazy, even--but maybe the English version of the excerpt will show up sooner or later.
|
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 06:22 AM
Post
#57
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 20-March 05 Member No.: 7,193 |
Amen to that, except for still shopping there. I'll stop myself before I go off on a tangent about how despise and loath Wal-mart. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 06:44 AM
Post
#58
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 4-August 02 Member No.: 3,064 |
I also think that there's still a place for wired technology, because it is inherently more secure.
I mean, I would much prefer a nice, quiet, landline connection to my security cameras. It's [nearly] unjammable and requires much more effort for an intruder to gain access to the image feed, let alone spoof the output. Why rely on encryption when you can deny physical access to the signal? |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 07:29 AM
Post
#59
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Name, and perhaps one more aspect: bizzaro tech *shrug* The description of what a tech** sees is close to what i expected (as posted in a thread here a while back), but they haven't touched yet on attacking devices, devices fighting back, or cracking into someone's PAN. BTW sapphire_wyvern i did talk there about how hardwire isn't a huge security advantage, although i could see it having limited applications. Where there is lots of cash to throw after an extra bit of security, in a newer building that is built and prewired for it's current use, where there is limited or no mobile devices, and the system is physically issolated from the Matrix with no communication lines in or out. I agree this whole idea could get messy if the developers artifically force all old-style cyberware to disappear. But i could see the corps mostly controlling cyberware production, and pushing the stuff that has wireless connectivity to be the norm. The old-style cyberware you come across is then either lower quality (hello Mr. SOTA) or is terribly expensive because it is custom made and the corps don't want it out there (except when it is under their thumb and working directly for them). Coupled with some advantages of a wireless system, the pervasiveness of wireless capable cyberware could be somewhat natural in many classes of cyberware. Advantages like the SR3 palm/weapon induction pads, or linking all your headware with external devices without having to cut in router hardware. If your cyberspurs are controlled by your PAN, once you had the commlink and the cyber legs in the cyberspurs could be essense free since you don't need a DNI. Downsides yup, but if there are suitable defenses it could be a reasonable trade-off to go either way. In any event i don't expect many mages signing on for 'ware commlinks (bad name choice, they share little with previous SR "commlinks" other than they communicate over radio frequency). Perhaps HUD goggles, but those would be relatively low security risks. I expect that even luddite characters are going to be within the reach of a tech. Indirect attacks lauched by controlling the devices in the environment around the luddite target. So your team would do well to have a tech on board unless the run is going to take place in the woods with the only vehicles, gear, and such around being luddite level. **I'm beginning to like the name "tech". Short, concise, doesn't have the same level of goober baggage of "technomancer" or "hacker". The people that like "technomancer" could even delude themselves into thinking it's a shortened version on that. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 07:53 AM
Post
#60
|
|||||||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
ok the menu idea wasn’t the best. the catalogue of a store that has customers on eth other side of the world would be more correct. The way system is being escribed is that you remain in full position of your meat senses and have an overlay of the information added by AROs within your line of sight. Let’s say I am in the renraku arcology mall looking at the tridio sets there. I look at them and an ARO pops up on each one to give me information on what I am considering buying. I decide I want to compare the prices of the novatech models. I cant access the AROs because I cant see them, I cant likely even get a direct signal to a novatech store. How do I now access that information? In SR3 I would have had to sit down at a terminal and access the matrix, ether in tortoise mode or using a RAS override, the pargam for matrix 2 suggests that people clapped out with a RAS override is a thing of the past but throwing a non localised matrix view on your field of vision would be extremely disorientating, my question is how this is done. Also are we to lose all the total immersion matrix sites running everything from educational simulators to coffee shops? These places had no logical physical location so they will have a great deal of difficulty interfacing with an ARO or augmented reality sweet. As to the treatment of those that can not or choose not to get a full PAN I agree. But I worry that the rules will state that everybody is connected or at least fail to mention that there are people that are not connected and thus the hacker tricks don’t work on them. Runners could even fall into this category, they are being treated as badly as sines as you said, remember many runners have always been sinless. They will at least want to be able to turn off there devises to avoid there location being triangulated (a trivial operation given the number of receivers around the place. We need rules for the absence of these devises on PCs and NPCs, that was my only point. One group of purists will be tolerated, the awakened, as long as implants cause magic loss (and I will be most disappointed if this is not the case) and magicians remain an in demand commodity there refusing to have ANY cyber or bio ware will e tolerated if not encouraged by corporate power structures, they will still have to ware the non implanted versions but they will use non implanted versions of the parts that are normally implanted (with a commiserate lack of performance). For example, a display link would be common ware so you can have the AROs displayed directly within your field of vision. A corporate mage could get a set of glasses that incorporates a heads up display that will show him the AROs but because the glasses may not be quite strait he suffers -1 pool for perception tests. Items such as those glasses should be included in the equipment listing in the main book (this is only an example based on many potentially erroneous assumptions but I think it makes my point) Other items I would like to see include a external comlink assessed threw an old style data jack, data encryption that is reliable over the week to month time frame (military grade encryption being reliable over the year to decade timeframe), smartguns that still use wires (I don’t want a cheep jamer stuffing up my interface, or a hacker emptying my clip while my gun is in its holster) The statement of a warless device in your clothing makes little sense. What dose it do exactly and why would I pay for 30 electronic units instead of 30 sets of clothing with a pocket that will fit my single device that dose those things. Edward |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
May 5 2005, 08:45 AM
Post
#61
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 778 Joined: 6-April 05 Member No.: 7,298 |
It does advertising, so you can afford the uber-cool clothes with programmable patterns (in exchange for half a square foot of advertising space on your back). Now, the advertisments can dynamically change depending on where you are. Walk into a mall, and your back will display an ad for the sale on at the office furniture store across the way.
It also does style-avoidance. Are you showing up to a party and don't want to be wearing the same dress as someone else? No problem! Use your PAN to set your range of allowable styles, and it will automatically shift you to a pattern and color that guarantees that you will make your own, individualized impression. And it keeps track of ownership. Did you put down your jacket and can't remember where it went? No problem! Just follow the AR arrows to it. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 09:09 AM
Post
#62
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
There might be still be the zonked out mode. Sort of a full immersion mode vs. ARO. In many ways a similar difference as between astral projection and astral perception. However that is pure speculation as i don't think there are any offical comments or playtester hints pointing to the existance of such a mode. EDIT: That mode might be limited to those with more invasive cyberware implants and, perhaps, technomancers without the special cyberware. After all it would be really tough to have full immersion with just pair of goggles.
Remember that SR3 had retinal projection systems and such that overlaid data in your field of vision. That's how Smartlink systems work. There might be perception modifiers that the GM can apply in particularly hairy environments. As well if your PAN is cracked into the attacker might be able to purposely obscure your vision with bogus graphics. Remember that in SR3 astral perception applies a +2 TN modifier across the board. They might handle perception modifiers the same under AR as under astral perception (however that is modeled in SR4). |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
May 5 2005, 10:18 AM
Post
#63
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
And image/data displays. (Which basically goes back to Neuromancer where Wintermute hijacks Molly's clock implant and uses it to display alphanumerical messages in her eye.) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 11:24 AM
Post
#64
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 908 Joined: 31-March 05 From: Georgia Member No.: 7,270 |
this technology is everywhere???
Tell me who drew the short straw for installing wireless in the Barrens? There HAVE to be places which are off the "Grid" as it were. What doesn't compute with me, is why the corps would allow this. Just because a technology exists, doesn't mean the powers that be will make it possible for everyone to have one/use one. Sure the noveau riche can change their clothing patterns so that they don't end up wearing the same dress as the Hilton heiress, but I don't see it going down big in the Ork Underground, or in areas were people are knifing each other for their shoes. (or organs!) Cyber, apparently. punk? maybe not. |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 12:26 PM
Post
#65
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Wait! Does that mean that there's going to be groups rebelling against corporate and government controls? Surely not, no, not in a cyberpunk game!
|
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 01:51 PM
Post
#66
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
Uh, Adam...Some things that cause issues here...
1. Even today, very light tracking causes all hell to break loose. OK, that's changed in SR, but this would make Orwell spin in his grave. 2. RF interference. You put that many transmitters in one place, in the urban accoustic environment, and all hell is going to break loose. 3. The NAN and every one of the other places on Earth where it's not total urban jungle. 4. Cancer. It's only been a decade since really wide-scale use of cellphones began. And we're lately seeing kids use cell phones. There is apparently some theoretical evidence that that may cause problems, though no evidence yet...And in any case, with what's proposed for SR4, the amount of RF emissions around the person will increase dramatically. |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 02:12 PM
Post
#67
|
|
|
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Number 3 has been dealt with above, by me and a few others.
Number 2... yes, this is definately an issue. However, keep in mind that all of these WiFi devices are very low-intensity, particularly the worn, non-Commlink stuff, and so won't "bounce" quite as much as even, say, a handheld radio. There's the added bonus that the extremely close ranges will help prevent most long-range tracking. As for #1 and #4... "There's always an Arquillian Battle Cruiser, or a Korilian Death Ray, or an intergalactic plague that is about to wipe out life on this miserable planet. The only way these people get on with their happy lives is they do not KNOW ABOUT IT. " :D |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 03:01 PM
Post
#68
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-April 05 From: France Member No.: 7,343 |
What will be the price to lend skillware -as in Matrix- ?
" - We need to pilot a hovercraft - wait I download the program for a 2hours duration - Hum. no time to leave. please choose a rocket launcher soft instead ... - Ok should I lend as well the TargeterWideEye sat 2sec before lunching to increase my chance to blow them out ???" Guess how much time it will need to apply the rules ... |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 03:13 PM
Post
#69
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
about tracking: this only happens when something smells of direct tracking. with the right access to your creditcard records and cellphone connections it can say more or less where you are at any moment. yet people dont cry out about this. its mostly a question of who have access and how they get access. do they have to go to a judge to get access or can they just enter your comink code into a searchengine and get a map of where you are? in fact some people sign up for the later feature so that friends can locate them.
as for coverage in the barrens and similar. most likely you will not se many local transmitters. but you will have general matrix coerage as long as they have a cell tower that can reach into the barrens (or have survived inisde the area). its only in the middle to luxury areas that you will see much use of local area equipment. just take a quick look at minority report and think of local area transmitters to be similar to the eye scanners of that movie. and about the cancer thing. only problem that have been recorded are a spike in heat in the area around your ear when talking for a long time. this is most likely an effect of the power the cell transmitter puts out. a bluetooth headset puts out maybe 1/10 or less of that and most likely people will be either wearing a small earpiece (kinda like a hearing aid in size. and some young kids that needs it today can get em in patterns and colors other then skintones so maybe they will become a kind of fashion statement in the future?) or maybe sunglasses with buildt in headset (look at the oakley sunglasses with buildt in mp3 player). the comlink/cellphone will be located in your pocket or similar. |
|
|
|
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 5 2005, 03:41 PM
Post
#70
|
||||
|
Guests |
Or so they can track their kids.
Screw that worthless piece of junk. SR's had the Whitelaw sunglasses with the HUD in them for years (since NAGRL, but referenced in Seattle). |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
May 5 2005, 03:50 PM
Post
#71
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 19-August 02 Member No.: 3,139 |
Untill someone hacks into your clothing and overlays the full body nude they snagged off of the RF Telecom that is in you bathroom. I dunno, I have a hard time seeing this as 'Coming to Be.' I say hard, and not impossible becuase who knows what'll happen in the next 50 years. *shrug* Right now RFID, cookies, etc are all under close scrutiny by consumers and consumer advocacy groups. And what they don't know won't hurt them line won't work at all - everyone's gonna know something is up. This isn't something that can just be hidden away. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 04:21 PM
Post
#72
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 226 Joined: 29-July 03 Member No.: 5,137 |
Please, please, please do not include the term WiFi in the final description of the wireless matrix. It will not be the standard protocol in 10 years much less 65, given that various replacements are already being deployed. giving the technology the same name as it has now is a sure way to quickly date the game, which is one of the things I thought we were trying to get away from.
Is there ever going to be a FAQ part 5? It's been 3 weeks... |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 05:09 PM
Post
#73
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Why not include it? It makes no fucking sense today, so no future advance is going to render the term any more completely idiotic than it already is.
~J |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 06:36 PM
Post
#74
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 639 Joined: 22-April 02 Member No.: 2,638 |
Personally, I'm leaning towards wireless networking (pronounced 'WEE-nee', not 'wine'). ;) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 06:40 PM
Post
#75
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 312 Joined: 9-October 02 Member No.: 3,430 |
will all commlinks be internal?
Can i steal someone's PAN and get all of his goodies downloaded via some sort of stoopid interfact to my commlink? Sound like a movie i watched not too long ago. Guy on the run. Needs a new set of eyes cause everything is driven by retina scan. Gets set of second hand eyes and gets all that guy's info. Minority Report? I can't remember |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 06:50 PM
Post
#76
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 312 Joined: 9-October 02 Member No.: 3,430 |
You know i just had a couple of minutes to think about this.
I've read on a couple of other threads about how SR was using the 80's japanese like theme as the underlying basis. Well guess what? After reading this post, I don't see good ol'Seattle as the gritty city of old. Oh no. With this wireless society with its l33t H4x0rs and technomancers, i see downtown NEO-TOKYO :eek: Go figure The more things change...yada, yada, yada |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 07:09 PM
Post
#77
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 639 Joined: 22-April 02 Member No.: 2,638 |
You're assuming that everything in the PAN contains an active transmitter. Most likely, 99% of your PAN-aware objects are going to be passive, containing the 2070 equivalent of modern day RFID tags (as Eldritch aluded to earlier). RFID tags are tiny, unpowered, non-volatile data stores. They are completely inert until they pass through an RFID scanner. The scanner's low-power EM field gives them just enough energy to broadcast their data. Once they're out of the field, they go inert again. So your PAN would most likely be comprised of, say, 25 RFID tags, powered by a scanner in your commlink, rather than 25 RF transmitters constantly bleating out their data. Turn off your commlink, and you effectively disappear. That is, until you pass through the active scanner located in the entrance of a mall bookstore, for example. Or, you could take the time to rip out the tags from every bit of gear you own. Just a guess. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 5 2005, 08:42 PM
Post
#78
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-April 05 From: France Member No.: 7,343 |
Just think some RFID have a range of 100m ...
worst than "1984" is easily by reached. The bad thind is that were going throug it soon! |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 08:47 PM
Post
#79
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
one should take a look at how bluetooth works. unless you tell it to scan it will only listen for traffic and reply if needed (say if a diffrent device sends a scan signal) or send to a known device.
to connect together two bluetooth devices you have to initiate pairing mode, ie tell both about each other. this is done by doing a scan and then enter eitehr a predefined code (for stuff like handsfree ear plugs, and they only go into pairing mode by pressing a button on them) or one that you make up at the moment (for stuff with keypads and similar). a bluetooh enabled poster on the other hand have constant scan going, and when picking up a new device it sends out a push signal that is basicly a text note or a business card. now push this into the future where you have better bandwidth (hell, bluetooth SIG is making noice about going UWB. the same tech that wireless usb will use) and you have matrix2's PAN. take a pic with your digicam, put it in a pocket and then use your comlink to access the pic, write a mail and send it of. and you never attach a single wire. |
|
|
|
|
May 5 2005, 09:29 PM
Post
#80
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 9-September 04 Member No.: 6,646 |
Dude, the internet overlays what you actually see?
All new "Hackers" listen up! I have discovered the new 1337 haxxoring ski11z! Hacking specialized in..... SPAM!! Rule the streets as you legally force anyone you don't like within eyesight of you to be bombarded with constantly self opening and propogating useless "advertisements" that completely shut them down! (Hey, if they didn't want to see the ads, they don't have to look @/ be around me.) 8) (And before you laugh, we have them IRL now.) :eek: I don't know, I'm thinking that with a simple action, I can run "Teh Sp4mmin4torz" and give someone oh let's say, ph33r my 1337 h4xxor ski11z! And if I have enough Karma for magic, I can add to this w/ magic spells like the good 'ole Choatic World™ spell! :grinbig: |
|
|
|
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 6 2005, 12:07 AM
Post
#81
|
|
Guests |
I think I speak for many others when I say that I hate you.
|
|
|
|
|
May 6 2005, 12:43 AM
Post
#82
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 9-September 04 Member No.: 6,646 |
Who, me? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 6 2005, 01:33 AM
Post
#83
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 661 Joined: 23-March 03 Member No.: 4,322 |
This remind anyone of the laughing man incident in Ghost in the Shell? He was a hacker that hacked peoples eyes so that he didn't exist to them, and the fact that everything is going wireless...
He also hacked peoples eyes to overlay a stick figure face on top of his own so no one could tell what he looked like. |
|
|
|
|
May 6 2005, 03:06 AM
Post
#84
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 338 Joined: 17-September 04 From: Pueblo Sector of Denver Member No.: 6,672 |
I thought what I'd do was I'd pretend to be one of those deaf mutes or should I? :rotfl: |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 6 2005, 01:06 PM
Post
#85
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 312 Joined: 9-October 02 Member No.: 3,430 |
See what i mean about the neo-tokyo feeling?
We're comparing it to GitS and the game isn't even out yet. In preparation for SR4 I think I'll grab my CyberGeneration book and read up on the rules. :| |
|
|
|
|
May 6 2005, 02:19 PM
Post
#86
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 1-September 02 From: France Member No.: 3,208 |
Agreed. It's a local nowawadays term, doesn't render well in a cyberpunk/sf game. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 6 2005, 06:23 PM
Post
#87
|
|||
|
Avatar of Mediocrity Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 725 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle, WA (err, UCAS) Member No.: 277 |
Stop saying that word. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
May 6 2005, 06:24 PM
Post
#88
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
preparation! preparation preparation!
|
|
|
|
|
May 6 2005, 08:33 PM
Post
#89
|
|
|
Slacker Extraordinaire Group: Retired Admins Posts: 337 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ashburn, VA Member No.: 997 |
I've never read Transhuman Space, or seen Ghost in the Shell, but this all sounds incredibly similar to a networking scheme I've been writing up for a d20 Modern game I was planning to run (and release online). I may have to rewrite to make sure things aren't excessively similar.
I'm not happy with the continued existence of Otaku in any form, but I'm definitely happy with the direction the matrix has gone. |
|
|
|
|
May 9 2005, 12:47 AM
Post
#90
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,362 Joined: 3-October 03 From: Poway, San Diego County, CA, USA Member No.: 5,676 |
Actually, this Matrix stuff should probably already have existed by 2065, although having everyone equipped with it in a world of such poverty seems pretty far-fetched.
|
|
|
|
|
May 9 2005, 12:58 AM
Post
#91
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
i think that the word everyone is used to cover anyone that counts. ie, any middle-class wage slave on up.
basicly if your low income or below then having a PAN enabled comlink will be a achivement, just like having a high-end computer is to some people today. |
|
|
|
|
May 9 2005, 02:40 PM
Post
#92
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 312 Joined: 9-October 02 Member No.: 3,430 |
CyberGeneration CyberGeneration CyberGeneration CyberGeneration
Its just so fun to say. :P |
|
|
|
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 9 2005, 06:17 PM
Post
#93
|
|
Guests |
Say it once more and Candyma... Cyber... will appear.
|
|
|
|
|
May 9 2005, 06:52 PM
Post
#94
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Crimsondude and other writers accept implicitly that CyberGeneration can notice and manipulate unwary Name-givers who invoke its Name too often. Your humble scribe finds this unlikely, for CyberGeneration CyberGeneration has not demonstrated clairvoyant powers of this CyberGeneration description, certainly not on those CyberGeneration whom Cybergeneration has not CyberGeneration already marked. Assuming such CyberGeneration were true, the effects of CyberGeneration's CyberGeneration's CYBERGENERATION'S manipulation would become evident to an CYBERGENERATION observer. CYBERGENERATION To date no such CYBERGENERATION has surfaced, despite the CYBERGENERATION diligent inquiry of one CYBERGENERATION who only desires to CYBERGENERATION the CYBERGENERATION of the CYBERGENERATION Library of CYBERGENERATION, and hopes that CYBERGENERATION superiors will CYBERGENERATION him with CYBERGENERATION and CYBERGENERATION CYBERGENERATION CYBERGENERATION
|
|
|
|
|
May 9 2005, 09:26 PM
Post
#95
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 778 Joined: 6-April 05 Member No.: 7,298 |
Apparently Nebis has renamed himself CyberGeneration (or vice versa). This Nebis not be a CyberGeneration Nebis. Ah CyberGeneration. Nebis. Nebis, too.
|
|
|
|
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 9 2005, 09:32 PM
Post
#96
|
|
Guests |
Well, further proof that the line between genius and madness is a thin one indeed.
|
|
|
|
|
May 9 2005, 09:37 PM
Post
#97
|
|||
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
The line of "just not getting it" and having no idea what CyberGeneration is... Is apparently much, much wider... :( |
||
|
|
|
||
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 9 2005, 10:01 PM
Post
#98
|
|
Guests |
Oh, no. it's just that I've seen Ellery do this before, and it usually requires someone to give the case a good swift kick to reset it.
|
|
|
|
|
May 9 2005, 11:59 PM
Post
#99
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
speaking of things i'm not keen on trying...
|
|
|
|
| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 10 2005, 12:57 AM
Post
#100
|
|
Guests |
Yeah, God only knows what defenses need to be bypassed. Rebooting Deus would probably be easier.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 27th July 2025 - 07:27 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.