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[Ziploxx]

My group and I are on probably our 3rd shadowrun 4th Edition campaign(the last ones only lasting between 2-5 sessions) and coming up on the 4th session of this campaign. We have completed 2 runs. We have been using a lot more matrix and astral stuff. The GM played a hacker the first campaign we did, and now we have a rigger and I'm half hacker. So we have a lot of checks and balances in the matrix, but none of us really know the rules for magic, just the one player who is using it.

The first run we did with him in it the Spirit took about half the time and killed about half the people. Sure, binding it almost makes him passout. Rebinding it seems to suck to. But he has these spirits bound and rampaging through the run(given one command of kill everyone in X area, so he still had like 2), killing entire squads. This guy doesn't know anything about breaking(optimizing) this system either, he's playing a fairly "whatever" shaman and rolling between 8-14 dice. The run had a ward in each building and 2 on-sight mages. Each mage was able to take one shot at the fire spirit before getting demolished . And while his spirits doing all this crap he's rolling for other spells and junk, shouldn't he have to sustain it or something?

Now we know the GM isn't THAT read on either the Matrix or Magic. What are some extended astral security measures? Should the mages be banishing quicker? I haven't even cracked street magic, so I'm most likely way underread.

EDIT: SORRY! It's 4th Edition Magic.

[Falconer]

Astral combat is treated as melee physical attacks. And also, "there are no known ranged weapons which function in astral space". The *ONLY* way to affect something outside your reach in astral is to use a mana spell. No weapons work. Also astral combat is 'trained only' (great way to screw over munchkin mages who think they can ignore it... since they'll always just attack with spells... spirit at astral speed gets in his face and gores him... he can't defend since he can't default on the astral combat test). Adepts have the same problem... attacking astral only forms they need to use willpower + astral combat.

So yes, only spirits which effectively have perfect flight while materialized and ludicrous astral speeds can engage pretty much anything in astral combat. Otherwise an astrally projecting mage, or a spirit of man with innate spell stunbolt/manabolt can pretty much ruin the day of any ground bound dual-natured entity since there's little they can do to attack back except break LOS from the caster (such as underground or a building so the astral form has to come within reach to see the target).

This is also the reason the first thing munchkins do when playing a ghoul is install cybereyes... it eliminates their 1 point of magic making them forever more mundane and forever eliminating the dual-natured drawback. It also restores normal sight to them. (and avoids needing to learn assensing & astral combat... two trained only skills)

The only catch is that something which has the "dual natured" power (not which is dual-natured... since it's possible to do so by percieving without having the power) gains a special out... it may always use it's physical stats along with any 'natural weapon' powers weapons and it's unarmed combat skill to defend or attack astrally as well as physically. This is to prevent things like dual-natured grizzlies from getting completely gimped since they're able to use their claws/bite to pretty much rip things apart.

Here's another one most people don't realize... materializing spirits aren't given the 'dual natured' power. They become 'dual natured' in the same sense than an astrally perceiving character is dual natured. The power gives them access to the material plane in a similar manner to how perception gives an adept access to the astral. It's not the same as the critter power. (it's a VERY VERY bad habit of the authors to give critter powers different abilities with the same name as other powers... such as mystic armor... does radically different things as player spell, player adept power, critter power). So a GM could stretch the rules to slap a spirit with a -2 penalty to any physical interactions with the real world in the same manner as a mage trying to use a pistol or punch someone while astrally perceiving.

In fact, only some later books hint that spirits gain any 'normal' senses at all when they materialize and that is only in the bit for making PC free spirits. I personally have always just gone with.. they can interact with the material plane, but can still only assense unless they have 'low light vision' or something similar through an enhanced senses critter power.