Bad boys & the Star, watcha gonna do when sheriff john brown come for you? Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Outline Switch to: Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Glayvin34]

One of my players did something that I'm fairly sure is illegal in Seattle- he Mind Probed an unwilling and unsuspecting target in a bar. I've always played that Mind Probe is obvious to anyone who is the target of it, I recall reading some fiction on the SR4 site a year or so ago that described someone being Mind Probed by a Dragon, and it felt like someone was flipping through their memories. The whole team left the bar post-haste as bouncers descended, but I don't want to just let them get away with Astral Assault. So I'm thinking that the next time the offending magician uses the same SIN that he showed the bouncer at the bar, Lone Star is going to show up.

What I'm wondering is if there is any canon method to deal with Crime and Punishment.

Obviously the team will be searched and stripped of their unlicensed restricted items and all forbidden items (unless they figure something out), but I'm not sure about the next step. Should it be like an assault charge nowadays, where the perp would go to central booking for a few days until bail is arranged? Then he would have to get a lawyer and go to criminal court in a few months/weeks?

This all might be a moot point given that my players might just blast Lone Star and try to get away, but if any other GMs have dealt with criminal prosecution and the UCAS Justice System, I'd love to hear about it.

[Juggy#3]

A lot of you seem to be equating a SIN with an SSN for the purposes of what it does; from what I can understand, it's not even close. Without an SSN, you're still considered a citizen and have a full citizens rights. Without a SIN, *they can't even prove your exist*. You have extremely limited, if any, rights and most people will not care what happens to you. You can't get a job, legally live anywhere, ride a bus, or even buy a hamburger at the fast food joint down the street without a SIN.

While I doubt that it's technically "legal" to just shoot a SINless person if your another citizen, I have no doubts that any Lone Star officer in the UCAS could shoot any SINless person for just about any reason and get away with it scott-free. Remeber, "few to no civil rights", *especially* if that SINless person was a metahuman or Awakened (both of which, while not techinically making you have less rights, do make the normal people tend to care a whole lot less about what happens to you).

Look at it like this: In 1920, how much trouble would a cop have gotten into for shooting a poor black person that was suspected of assaulting an average white citizen?

[stevebugge]

A lot of you seem to be equating a SIN with an SSN for the purposes of what it does; from what I can understand, it's not even close. Without an SSN, you're still considered a citizen and have a full citizens rights. Without a SIN, *they can't even prove your exist*. You have extremely limited, if any, rights and most people will not care what happens to you. You can't get a job, legally live anywhere, ride a bus, or even buy a hamburger at the fast food joint down the street without a SIN.

While I doubt that it's technically "legal" to just shoot a SINless person if your another citizen, I have no doubts that any Lone Star officer in the UCAS could shoot any SINless person for just about any reason and get away with it scott-free. Remeber, "few to no civil rights", *especially* if that SINless person was a metahuman or Awakened (both of which, while not techinically making you have less rights, do make the normal people tend to care a whole lot less about what happens to you).

Look at it like this: In 1920, how much trouble would a cop have gotten into for shooting a poor black person that was suspected of assaulting an average white citizen?

That's actually more or less the interpretation most of us have of it, though in actuality a SIN basically is an SSN only at an international level. Yhe issue has been the suggestion that Killing a SINless person is Legal in the same sense that breathing air is legal. Sure if a Lonestar Cop shoots a poor SINless Squatter in the barrens he's not going to get in trouble for it, but there will at least be a pretense of an inquiry in to why, if it was ever reported. The Cops Partner would back him up, his Commanding Officer would say "looks like it's justified" and everyone's happy except the squatter, who's dead and can't complain. Throw a news camera in the mix catching the officer doing it followed by a public outcry that threatens their city contract and the whole scenario changes. Instead of looking the other way the Star would happily sacrifice their "Rogue Cop" in a very public show trial to show that they were very serious about safeguarding all the citizens and residents of the City.

[Juggy#3]

That's actually more or less the interpretation most of us have of it, though in actuality a SIN basically is an SSN only at an international level. Yhe issue has been the suggestion that Killing a SINless person is Legal in the same sense that breathing air is legal. Sure if a Lonestar Cop shoots a poor SINless Squatter in the barrens he's not going to get in trouble for it, but there will at least be a pretense of an inquiry in to why, if it was ever reported. The Cops Partner would back him up, his Commanding Officer would say "looks like it's justified" and everyone's happy except the squatter, who's dead and can't complain. Throw a news camera in the mix catching the officer doing it followed by a public outcry that threatens their city contract and the whole scenario changes. Instead of looking the other way the Star would happily sacrifice their "Rogue Cop" in a very public show trial to show that they were very serious about safeguarding all the citizens and residents of the City.

A SIN is like an SSN on crack, basically. An SSN only effects certain parts of your life--a SIN effect's basically all of them. It's much more far-reaching and all-encompassing than an SSN.

And as far as sacrificing their rogue cop to show that they protect ALL the citizens and residents of the city--that's fine, if you're a citizen or a legal resident. If your SINless, you are neither. You're not a citizen, and you can't live anywhere without being a squatter or using fake ID, which is illegal in itself, so you're not a legal resident, either.

Most of the time those things get ignored, I'll bet, simply due to the sheer number of the SINless popupation, the likelyhood of a public outcry if they started a mass SINless eviction/slaughter/whatever, etc.

Basically, it seems the SINless exist in a sort of legal gray area where the law is allowed to do pretty much whatever they want to them...up to a point. I really wouldn't be surprised if a significant number of Lone Star officers just arrested any suspected SINless criminal, drove them somewhere disserted, shot them in the back of the head, and told anybody who asked that they "got away".

Nobody is gonna raise any great fuss about "abuses" against a number of people that are not citizens, have almost no rights, and are generally considered criminals as a matter of course, anyway.