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> Security: Licenses and SINs, A branciation from a Behind the Shadows
Chrysalis
post May 10 2009, 12:35 PM
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Greets,

I was thinking about licenses and SINs, I am still unsure on how to play them. The way I play them is like this:


QUOTE
The Ronald Reagan Airport flashed along the display, a president who symbolized 20th century paranoia. The 21st century one was indicated through the AR display, that the threat level was cerulean and that all arrivals would go through a security check. The road had been blocked with concrete barriers and gray coloured APCs. Around the D.C. Metroplex guard swooped helicopter sized vector thrust drones with their missile racks and distended miniguns as if its was the stingers from a swarm of angry wasps.

Tyler's commlink licenses were scrutinized with excruciating detail. This was not some punk who was checking for gang affiliation but a government from a disunited UCAS, with CAS separatists, humanist policlubers, technomancers, and the Shdowrunner kind threatening its existence every day. A drone followed his movements as he navigated the serpentine road block, the sweep of a weapons lock before he was allowed to pass.


From a game mechanics side I would see the winning hand always being with security. How do fake licenses help? I mean obviously if you are at the stuffer shack and you want to buy a fag and you flash your electronic equivalent of a cardboard and stick figure photo ID drivers license that would be a License 1 and a hand wave by the GM.

However, what about airports, hospitals, and government buildings? Customs officials have special training to identify forgeries. Wouldn't this involve a similar four point system of verification (biometrics, checking the international system of SINs, interrogatory mathematical verification system, and old Mark I eyeball).

What about spells? Magecuffs have bacteria that glows when spells are to be cast. It is a simple, mostly fool-proof system. I would see the same technology incorporated in scanners in the sixth world. A little bar on the side which sets off an alarm when a mage walks through the scanner.

What about identity theft? What's to stop a character from mugging a person who is of roughly the equivalent size and gender, steal their commlink and go on an identity theft shopping spree? As technomancers are the new Al Qaeda, commlinks are rarely cranial.
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kzt
post May 11 2009, 01:50 AM
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Hmm that does seem to be the case. Cleverly the game doesn't provide a mechanism to actually do the additional verification "based on the bearers history" that is supposed to result. The default in an opposed test is that on a tie the defender wins if stalemate isn't an acceptable result.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post May 11 2009, 02:00 AM
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QUOTE (kzt @ May 10 2009, 06:50 PM) *
Hmm that does seem to be the case. Cleverly the game doesn't provide a mechanism to actually do the additional verification "based on the bearers history" that is supposed to result. The default in an opposed test is that on a tie the defender wins if stalemate isn't an acceptable result.



I have always read it that if you tie, then you retest again... Seems to fit the fluff...
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kzt
post May 11 2009, 02:11 AM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 10 2009, 08:00 PM) *
I have always read it that if you tie, then you retest again... Seems to fit the fluff...

No, what they should do is throw detailed questions at the character, which means the character with a new SIN every 2 days is screwed when they ask him what Junior High he graduated from and where his mother was born. The character with a stable fake ID that he doesn't burn and instead studies it can probably answer it.

Except that in SR option 2 is dumb.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post May 11 2009, 02:29 AM
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QUOTE (kzt @ May 10 2009, 07:11 PM) *
No, what they should do is throw detailed questions at the character, which means the character with a new SIN every 2 days is screwed when they ask him what Junior High he graduated from and where his mother was born. The character with a stable fake ID that he doesn't burn and instead studies it can probably answer it.

Except that in SR option 2 is dumb.


Agreed, but for the "rules" of interpretation, that would be resolved as either another test agains the Fake ID, or as a Judge Intentions Test vs. a Con (Possibly Fast Talking) Social Test...

It boils down to that fact that Players/GM's do not put that much into the Fake SIN process in my experience... Which is odd... I always liked putting together some background info, such as you are hinting at, to flesh out the data a little bit... Sadly, most Players/GM's don't care enough about it to put forth that kind of effort... so the Retest or Social Test is the way to handle it...

Either way works...
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Kerenshara
post May 12 2009, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 10 2009, 10:29 PM) *
It boils down to that fact that Players/GM's do not put that much into the Fake SIN process in my experience... Which is odd... I always liked putting together some background info, such as you are hinting at, to flesh out the data a little bit... Sadly, most Players/GM's don't care enough about it to put forth that kind of effort... so the Retest or Social Test is the way to handle it...

I can't speak for everybody of course, but I have fifteen current active IDs. Each has diferent biometrics (Including fingerprints, and as soon as I can get my hands on it, retina prints). Each has full name, citizenship, place of birth, date of birth, employer (if any), clothing styles, language, food preferences, speech mannerisms, physical mannerisms, sexual orientation preferences, comlink type (you DID get a different comlink to RUN the fake ID, right?) and OS, firearm(s) with permit(s), and basic nuclear family information and marital status. (My GM says he's thankful I'm the one keeping track of them, but my best friend just insists I'm schitzo so it's not a problem. I can role play each of them, and most people can tell who I am playing just by watching and listening.)

I think this part of the game is at the heart of what makes Shadowrun what it is, especially in 2070.

As to tests, here is what our group has essentially settled on:

Level 1 = It's a bus pass. Stuffer ShackTM probably won't quibble.
Level 2 = Minimum casual use.
Level 3 = Sufficient to pass a police traffic stop, assuming no other suspicion from the cop.
Level 4 = Enough to legitimately buy property (a house).
Level 5 = Will pass almost all "immediate" scrutiny.
Level 6 = Potentially enough to pass a security background check, but not in person.

For "immediate" security checks, we handle it with the ID level as a threshold for the "Scanner".

For an in depth check, duration varies by level. Initiative Pass for Level 1. Minutes for Level 2. Hours for Level 3. Days for Level 4. Weeks for Level 5. Months for Level 6. (At level 6, the details and data are so in depth, it takes real people real time to comb the mountain of data to find the tiny discrepancies and put them together.) The threshold there would be level*level. All fakes can be broken eventually. But imagine a flesh and blood investigator looking into a Level 6 (6k/18F) ID, if they just SUSPECT it's false, if the person is convincing in interviews (can you say: role play? Social skills to suplement?) they might give up after a while and say it seems legit? If they KNOW it's fake, it's only a matter of time.

If you haven't read it in depth, the Runner's Companion spends a LOT of time talking about this stuff and what a fake ID really entails and involves. Level 3 and higher IDs are putting full and legitimate information into governmental databases.

Please bear in mind these are just for baseline IDs. You want a faked access card for the Sader Krupp research facility to go with that fake SiN that claims you belong there as an employee? NOW we're up to a straight-up rating to rating roll off. And when the guard raises an eyebrow, that's when those sleaze skills come in handy to glide you right past him. "Oh, I just transfered in from the Ohio facility, and Mr. Tanaka said he was SURE they would get my paperwork straightened out by the end of the week, but I'm already running late, and you know how he is, don't you?" *Dazling smile and a dice roll*

Any thoughts?

It means IDs are important to put time into, but not really to take time to DEAL with in play once you set them up and as long as you actually adhere to them. Forget you're supposed to be a meek submissive Japanese wageslave and start sassing the guard with a Southern accent... well, you get the picture.
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kzt
post May 13 2009, 03:22 AM
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QUOTE (Kerenshara @ May 12 2009, 05:47 PM) *
I can't speak for everybody of course, but I have fifteen current active IDs. Each has diferent biometrics (Including fingerprints, and as soon as I can get my hands on it, retina prints). Each has full name, citizenship, place of birth, date of birth, employer (if any), clothing styles, language, food preferences, speech mannerisms, physical mannerisms, sexual orientation preferences, comlink type (you DID get a different comlink to RUN the fake ID, right?) and OS, firearm(s) with permit(s), and basic nuclear family information and marital status. (My GM says he's thankful I'm the one keeping track of them, but my best friend just insists I'm schitzo so it's not a problem. I can role play each of them, and most people can tell who I am playing just by watching and listening.)

The drawback is that if you have lots of IDs with the same biometrics is that when you get stopped at the security checkpoint at the airport your prints get run against the central data base and are going to return 15 different people. These also match your retinal patterns and also look remarkably like you. Which means you are not making the 5:15 to NYC.
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Posts in this topic
- Chrysalis   Security: Licenses and SINs   May 10 2009, 12:35 PM
- - Mäx   QUOTE (Chrysalis @ May 10 2009, 03:35 PM)...   May 10 2009, 02:37 PM
|- - Chrysalis   QUOTE (Mäx @ May 10 2009, 05:37 PM) Woul...   May 10 2009, 02:52 PM
- - Critias   Really, it all comes down to how important you wan...   May 10 2009, 02:59 PM
- - Zurai   Rules As Written, fake SINs and fake licenses are ...   May 10 2009, 03:16 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Zurai @ May 10 2009, 08:16 AM) Rul...   May 10 2009, 10:03 PM
|- - TeOdio   QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 10 2009, 06...   May 10 2009, 10:56 PM
||- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (TeOdio @ May 10 2009, 03:56 PM) We...   May 10 2009, 11:12 PM
||- - TeOdio   QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 10 2009, 07...   May 10 2009, 11:30 PM
|- - Zurai   QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 10 2009, 06...   May 10 2009, 11:30 PM
||- - TeOdio   QUOTE (Zurai @ May 10 2009, 07:30 PM) Not...   May 10 2009, 11:37 PM
|||- - Zurai   QUOTE (TeOdio @ May 10 2009, 07:37 PM) Bu...   May 10 2009, 11:44 PM
|||- - TeOdio   QUOTE (Zurai @ May 10 2009, 07:44 PM) Tha...   May 11 2009, 12:01 AM
||- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Zurai @ May 10 2009, 04:30 PM) Not...   May 11 2009, 12:04 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 10 2009, 04...   May 11 2009, 12:08 AM
||- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (kzt @ May 10 2009, 05:08 PM) This ...   May 11 2009, 12:12 AM
|- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 10 2009, 03...   May 14 2009, 11:37 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 14 2009, 05:37...   May 15 2009, 12:13 AM
|- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 14 2009, 05...   May 15 2009, 05:02 AM
|- - TeOdio   QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 15 2009, 01:02...   May 15 2009, 06:05 AM
- - kzt   The issue I see is that they are trying to cover a...   May 10 2009, 09:48 PM
- - TeOdio   As the GM, I only "check" ID's for g...   May 10 2009, 10:55 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (TeOdio @ May 10 2009, 03:55 PM) As...   May 10 2009, 11:14 PM
- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   And I bend to the wisdom (becasue it does indeed h...   May 11 2009, 12:06 AM
- - kzt   The problem is that it isn't. If you fail it ...   May 11 2009, 12:30 AM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (kzt @ May 10 2009, 05:30 PM) The p...   May 11 2009, 01:21 AM
- - Dikotana   You walk into a Stuffer Shack and wave your fake i...   May 11 2009, 01:02 AM
- - kzt   The stuffer shack has every reason to care that wh...   May 11 2009, 01:12 AM
- - kzt   Hmm that does seem to be the case. Cleverly the g...   May 11 2009, 01:50 AM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (kzt @ May 10 2009, 06:50 PM) Hmm t...   May 11 2009, 02:00 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 10 2009, 08...   May 11 2009, 02:11 AM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (kzt @ May 10 2009, 07:11 PM) No, w...   May 11 2009, 02:29 AM
||- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 10 2009, 10...   May 12 2009, 11:47 PM
||- - kzt   QUOTE (Kerenshara @ May 12 2009, 05:47 PM...   May 13 2009, 03:22 AM
||- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (kzt @ May 12 2009, 10:22 PM) The d...   May 13 2009, 04:27 AM
||- - DireRadiant   QUOTE (kzt @ May 12 2009, 10:22 PM) The d...   May 13 2009, 02:16 PM
||- - kzt   QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 13 2009, 08:16 A...   May 13 2009, 03:01 PM
||- - DireRadiant   QUOTE (kzt @ May 13 2009, 10:01 AM) You c...   May 13 2009, 03:29 PM
||- - kzt   QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 13 2009, 09:29 A...   May 13 2009, 11:14 PM
||- - DireRadiant   QUOTE (kzt @ May 13 2009, 06:14 PM) It...   May 14 2009, 02:21 PM
||- - kzt   QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 14 2009, 08:21 A...   May 14 2009, 06:37 PM
|- - FlashbackJon   QUOTE (kzt @ May 10 2009, 09:11 PM) No, w...   May 11 2009, 01:43 PM
- - Necro Sanct   I prefer to use the following method for higher se...   May 11 2009, 02:46 AM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Necro Sanct @ May 10 2009, 07:46 P...   May 11 2009, 02:49 AM
- - twilite   I've always liked the idea of making the Fake ...   May 11 2009, 03:16 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (twilite @ May 10 2009, 09:16 PM) I...   May 11 2009, 03:34 AM
|- - Zurai   QUOTE (twilite @ May 10 2009, 10:16 PM) I...   May 11 2009, 10:21 AM
- - DireRadiant   GM decides if and when to bother with SIN verifica...   May 11 2009, 01:21 PM
|- - Darkeus   QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 11 2009, 08:21 A...   May 11 2009, 01:48 PM
- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   Ths is the level of detail that I have used in the...   May 13 2009, 01:02 AM
- - Critias   Which'd all be fine and dandy if a level 6 ID ...   May 13 2009, 12:44 PM
- - Kerenshara   *considers that for a moment* Critias:: you have ...   May 13 2009, 01:02 PM
- - rathmun   Not much of a news piece, but I went and did the m...   May 13 2009, 03:49 PM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (rathmun @ May 13 2009, 10:49 AM) N...   May 13 2009, 04:18 PM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (Kerenshara @ May 13 2009, 11:18 AM...   May 13 2009, 04:23 PM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (Critias @ May 13 2009, 11:23 AM) Y...   May 13 2009, 04:43 PM
- - DireRadiant   See Making Tests "Th e gamemaster should not...   May 13 2009, 04:53 PM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 13 2009, 11:53 A...   May 13 2009, 05:08 PM
- - rathmun   Still need a way (at some price) to get a false ID...   May 13 2009, 05:45 PM
- - DuctShuiTengu   Actually Rathmun, the odds are even worse. With t...   May 13 2009, 05:51 PM
- - Kerenshara   You know, I think I am ammused by the monster I ha...   May 13 2009, 06:47 PM
- - TeOdio   Simple question I have for you all. What makes you...   May 13 2009, 07:13 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (TeOdio @ May 13 2009, 01:13 PM) Si...   May 14 2009, 12:47 AM
- - Writer   Instead of doing the math, I used a spreadsheet. ...   May 14 2009, 01:42 PM
- - DireRadiant   When I ask for SIN checks I take into the account ...   May 14 2009, 02:24 PM
- - Kerenshara   I guess it boils down to table preference if you...   May 14 2009, 05:13 PM
- - DireRadiant   The fluff talks about identity and SIN checks ubiq...   May 14 2009, 05:55 PM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 14 2009, 01:55 P...   May 14 2009, 08:49 PM
|- - DireRadiant   QUOTE (Kerenshara @ May 14 2009, 03:49 PM...   May 14 2009, 09:10 PM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 14 2009, 05:10 P...   May 14 2009, 09:29 PM
- - crizh   Oddly I don't seem to be able to find price an...   May 14 2009, 06:23 PM
- - crizh   Ooo Biometric ID, I forgot about that. If I under...   May 14 2009, 07:01 PM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (crizh @ May 14 2009, 03:01 PM) Ooo...   May 14 2009, 08:54 PM
- - Chrysalis   Biometrics refers to methods for uniquely recogniz...   May 14 2009, 09:12 PM
- - Chrysalis   I have to say biometrics was the new sexy word of ...   May 14 2009, 09:27 PM
- - Dreadlord   I sometimes had the players roll SIN checks in the...   May 14 2009, 10:05 PM
- - Writer   Tymeaus Jalynsfein & Muspellsheimr, I think th...   May 15 2009, 04:30 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Writer @ May 14 2009, 10:30 PM) Gi...   May 15 2009, 05:35 AM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (kzt @ May 15 2009, 01:35 AM) Fake ...   May 15 2009, 10:53 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Kerenshara @ May 15 2009, 04:53 PM...   May 15 2009, 11:16 PM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (kzt @ May 15 2009, 07:16 PM) Thank...   May 16 2009, 12:21 AM
- - DuctShuiTengu   After having thought about this a bit more, I thin...   May 15 2009, 11:52 AM
|- - Writer   QUOTE (DuctShuiTengu @ May 15 2009, 07:52...   May 15 2009, 02:08 PM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (DuctShuiTengu @ May 15 2009, 07:52...   May 15 2009, 11:04 PM
- - Writer   So you used to work at a warehouse in which the im...   May 16 2009, 01:52 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Writer @ May 15 2009, 07:52 PM) So...   May 16 2009, 05:03 AM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (kzt @ May 16 2009, 12:03 AM) The p...   May 16 2009, 02:24 PM
- - Writer   Kerenshara, I was thinking more about this, also. ...   May 16 2009, 08:33 PM
|- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (Writer @ May 16 2009, 01:33 PM) As...   May 16 2009, 10:46 PM
||- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 16 2009, 06:46...   May 16 2009, 10:51 PM
||- - Writer   QUOTE (Writer @ May 16 2009, 01:33 PM)As ...   May 17 2009, 01:01 AM
||- - Zurai   QUOTE (Writer @ May 16 2009, 09:01 PM) In...   May 17 2009, 01:37 AM
|- - Heath Robinson   QUOTE (Writer @ May 16 2009, 09:33 PM) Un...   May 17 2009, 10:42 PM
- - Writer   Right on Zurai, but if the ID proves to be false, ...   May 17 2009, 01:58 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Writer @ May 17 2009, 07:58 AM) Ri...   May 17 2009, 07:09 PM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (Writer @ May 17 2009, 08:58 AM) Ri...   May 18 2009, 04:29 AM
- - Writer   Good point, Heath Robinson, I hadn't thought o...   May 17 2009, 11:21 PM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (Writer @ May 17 2009, 06:21 PM) Go...   May 18 2009, 04:35 AM
- - Heath Robinson   SIN amnesties mean that you could have completed y...   May 17 2009, 11:34 PM
- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ May 17 2009, 06:3...   May 18 2009, 04:37 AM
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