 How is 4e simpler than 3e (sell me on the idea)? |
 Oct 9 2009, 04:33 PM
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Wa, USA Member No.: 1,139  |
Because I'm just not seeing it. For example you have replaced TNs which change in one dimension with Variable Thresholds and Dice Pool Modifiers which is two dimensions of change.
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Oct 11 2009, 03:51 AM
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE Maybe it is just me, but I think that the streamlining of 4th edition is a godsend, as it makes learning the game for new players a great deal easier than the older editions... You're right, it is just you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) SR4 is not really more streamlined than previous editions. It *is* better-written and laid out, which helps make it more intuitive and easy to grasp. But that's due to the writers, and not the system. |
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Oct 11 2009, 04:26 PM
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 10 2009, 08:51 PM)  You're right, it is just you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) SR4 is not really more streamlined than previous editions. It *is* better-written and laid out, which helps make it more intuitive and easy to grasp. But that's due to the writers, and not the system. This is where you and I would disagree... there are no more (or at least a minimum of) sub-systems, this is a big change from SR3 to SR4+ (where everything was a subsystem)... with everything working the same, it IS more streamlined in a lot of ways (though not everyone understandable likes this change)... This change alone makes it more intuitive, though the layout and design also help a great deal in this matter as well... Keep the Faith |
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Oct 12 2009, 03:27 AM
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#4
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 11 2009, 09:26 AM) This is where you and I would disagree... there are no more (or at least a minimum of) sub-systems, this is a big change from SR3 to SR4+ (where everything was a subsystem)... with everything working the same, it IS more streamlined in a lot of ways (though not everyone understandable likes this change)... This change alone makes it more intuitive, though the layout and design also help a great deal in this matter as well... Keep the Faith I agree that there are no more subsystems, at least as far as the core book goes. But in both cases, the subsystems are just a twist on the core mechanic. (Discounting the Maneuver Score, of course--I *despise* the maneuver score.) The streamlining is largely an illusion. QUOTE Why exactly are you building the NPC's with BP's? Because that's the rules. You are supposed to build each and every NPC using the PC rules, and eyeballing it or modifying the existing templates is technically cheating. I *like* modifying and eyeballing better, but I don't pretend I'm following the rules when I do so. |
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Oct 12 2009, 10:34 AM
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Target Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 9-August 09 From: Denmark Member No.: 17,489 |
I have played 3rd edition from time to time in past, but once we really got to try out 4th edition i have to say it is a joy now.
I always found the setting to be interesting enough to play the game even if that meant I was not too fond of the core mechanics and combat system that was overly complicated. Add to that, that most of the times we played without magic in the setting and without deckers (since the decker was a solo game anyways, we used an NPC for that). The biggest change is truely the better layout of the book, even if a few references are off, it is nothing compared to 3rd. I remember it was very frustating trying to grasp rules for rigging (we didn't have expansion book for riggers). It was basicly 1½-2 page in the book that gently touched the concept of rigging or so i recall. Another example i remember was me asking another player, what this table column was short for, we found out it was not even in the book. That is so far out its not even funny. Actually it is alot of small and big things that makes it simpler, that is best described as a generel overhaul. That is not say that it has become very simple, there are still a lot of speciel rules, most related to modifiers and the process of accomplishing something. There are other things as well, like edge and new BP system, that makes 4th cool. |
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Posts in this topic
tete How is 4e simpler than 3e (sell me on the idea)? Oct 9 2009, 04:33 PM
limejello10512 well I remember putting 3rd edition down cause I f... Oct 9 2009, 05:15 PM Apathy Dice Mechanics
The old mechanic had you rolling a ... Oct 9 2009, 05:34 PM Screaming Eagle Simplifications:
THE MATRIX RULES - OMG! i... Oct 9 2009, 05:44 PM tete sure I'll buy that the skill increase is more ... Oct 9 2009, 07:35 PM Karoline Wasn't it possible for the dice pools to chang... Oct 9 2009, 07:58 PM Screaming Eagle Frankly having given 4th ed a shake down over the ... Oct 9 2009, 08:09 PM Dragnar SR3 had a lot of fake flexibility in it, that actu... Oct 9 2009, 08:56 PM Malachi I also seem to be one of the few people that didn... Oct 9 2009, 09:39 PM PBI Dice pools in Sr1-3 never changed unless the stats... Oct 9 2009, 09:44 PM Shinobi Killfist SR 4 unified things, which is a bit simpler. But ... Oct 9 2009, 10:33 PM
Heath Robinson QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Oct 9 2009, 11... Oct 9 2009, 10:42 PM Shinobi Killfist QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Oct 9 2009, 06:42... Oct 9 2009, 10:58 PM Heath Robinson QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Oct 9 2009, 11... Oct 10 2009, 03:51 AM Joe Chummer QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Oct 9 2009, 10:51... Oct 10 2009, 05:13 AM Shinobi Killfist QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Oct 9 2009, 11:51... Oct 10 2009, 05:15 PM Tymeaus Jalynsfein QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Oct 10 2009, 11... Oct 10 2009, 05:23 PM Karoline Well, it may have been all well and good for each ... Oct 9 2009, 10:39 PM cndblank QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 9 2009, 04:39 PM) W... Oct 10 2009, 12:42 AM Shinobi Killfist I didn't think it was much extra work when I G... Oct 9 2009, 10:46 PM Dreadlord I was running a group of players new to Shadowrun ... Oct 9 2009, 10:53 PM tete QUOTE (Dreadlord @ Oct 9 2009, 11:53 PM) ... Oct 10 2009, 03:39 PM Joe Chummer QUOTE (tete @ Oct 10 2009, 10:39 AM) Huh?... Oct 11 2009, 04:04 PM tete QUOTE (Joe Chummer @ Oct 11 2009, 05:04 P... Oct 11 2009, 08:43 PM Paul I don't think 4e is simpler, but it is differe... Oct 9 2009, 11:00 PM Joe Chummer One changed aspect I like better is the handling o... Oct 10 2009, 01:09 AM the_real_elwood I was always fine with 3rd edition, and the variab... Oct 10 2009, 05:18 AM Dikotana SR4's Matrix and rigging are hands-down better... Oct 10 2009, 06:44 AM Cain With the exception of the Vehicle rules, SR4 is no... Oct 10 2009, 03:35 PM Dikotana QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 10 2009, 10:35 AM) Tech... Oct 11 2009, 08:06 AM Thanee Changing the number of dice with fixed TN (which w... Oct 10 2009, 05:39 PM Matsci QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 11 2009, 08:27 PM) Beca... Oct 12 2009, 04:33 AM Semerkhet QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 11 2009, 10:27 PM) Beca... Oct 12 2009, 03:42 PM Tymeaus Jalynsfein QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 11 2009, 09:27 PM) I ag... Oct 13 2009, 01:10 AM Joe Chummer QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 12 2009, 08... Oct 13 2009, 01:34 AM Tymeaus Jalynsfein QUOTE (Joe Chummer @ Oct 12 2009, 07:34 P... Oct 13 2009, 01:37 AM Joe Chummer QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 12 2009, 08... Oct 13 2009, 02:53 AM Medicineman QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 10 2009, 11:51 PM) You... Oct 12 2009, 08:45 AM tete Just a quick note I have had the chance to run 2 s... Oct 11 2009, 05:39 AM Matsci QUOTE (tete @ Oct 10 2009, 10:39 PM) Just... Oct 11 2009, 06:45 PM Cain QUOTE If you're building large numbers of NPCs... Oct 11 2009, 04:16 PM Tymeaus Jalynsfein QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 11 2009, 09:16 AM) That... Oct 11 2009, 04:30 PM Semerkhet I'll throw in my .02 nuyen and say that I pref... Oct 11 2009, 10:36 PM tete QUOTE (Semerkhet @ Oct 11 2009, 11:36 PM)... Oct 12 2009, 04:27 PM Semerkhet QUOTE (tete @ Oct 12 2009, 11:27 AM) I th... Oct 12 2009, 05:49 PM Karoline QUOTE (tete @ Oct 12 2009, 12:27 PM) Yes,... Oct 13 2009, 12:58 AM Blade I have to admit that as a GM I always had trouble ... Oct 12 2009, 08:38 AM Karoline Been a while since I looked at 3e, but as I recall... Oct 12 2009, 12:28 PM cndblank I picked up SR 1 the first Gencon it came out, ran... Oct 12 2009, 04:15 PM Cain QUOTE In SR3 you had Riggers and Deckers and they ... Oct 12 2009, 10:27 PM Medicineman QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 12 2009, 05:27 PM) Actu... Oct 13 2009, 09:14 AM tete QUOTE (Medicineman @ Oct 13 2009, 10:14 A... Oct 13 2009, 04:04 PM Malachi QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 12 2009, 04:27 PM) I... Oct 13 2009, 05:39 PM Semerkhet QUOTE (Malachi @ Oct 13 2009, 12:39 PM) I... Oct 13 2009, 08:34 PM tete QUOTE (Malachi @ Oct 13 2009, 05:39 PM) .... Oct 14 2009, 04:19 AM Paul Nice to see you haven't changed a bit Cain. I... Oct 12 2009, 10:45 PM Trillinon There is one area where I find SR4 to be easier th... Oct 13 2009, 01:38 AM Karoline QUOTE (Trillinon @ Oct 12 2009, 09:38 PM)... Oct 13 2009, 02:12 AM Tymeaus Jalynsfein QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 12 2009, 08:12 PM) ... Oct 13 2009, 02:17 AM Omenowl Under the old system you had TNs and also had thre... Oct 13 2009, 03:23 AM tete Karoline, I find your posts offensive, maybe its l... Oct 13 2009, 04:33 AM Karoline QUOTE (tete @ Oct 13 2009, 12:33 AM) Karo... Oct 13 2009, 04:56 AM tete QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 13 2009, 04:56 AM) ... Oct 13 2009, 05:09 AM ravensmuse I have to say that reading this did teach me one t... Oct 13 2009, 01:18 PM tabwaife73 so where is the first mission starting? and how di... Oct 13 2009, 03:04 PM Karoline QUOTE (tabwaife73 @ Oct 13 2009, 10:04 AM... Oct 13 2009, 03:13 PM Dahrken Well, I feel the game in general is simpler and mo... Oct 13 2009, 04:43 PM Cain QUOTE I do agree that the options given in Unwired... Oct 13 2009, 08:53 PM Medicineman QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 13 2009, 03:53 PM) . A... Oct 14 2009, 08:49 AM tete QUOTE (Medicineman @ Oct 14 2009, 09:49 A... Oct 14 2009, 07:27 PM Paul Once again people are arguing personal preference,... Oct 14 2009, 02:23 PM Karoline QUOTE (Paul @ Oct 14 2009, 10:23 AM) Once... Oct 14 2009, 02:35 PM Thanee QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 14 2009, 04:35 PM) ... Oct 14 2009, 02:51 PM Karoline QUOTE (Thanee @ Oct 14 2009, 10:51 AM) Li... Oct 14 2009, 04:58 PM Malachi QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 14 2009, 10:58 AM) ... Oct 14 2009, 05:20 PM Medicineman QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 14 2009, 11:58 AM) ... Oct 15 2009, 07:49 AM MYST1C QUOTE (Medicineman @ Oct 15 2009, 09:49 A... Oct 15 2009, 05:26 PM Paul Yeah like I said personal preference. The problem ... Oct 14 2009, 02:38 PM Cain QUOTE (Paul @ Oct 14 2009, 07:38 AM) Yeah... Oct 15 2009, 12:57 AM Malachi QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 13 2009, 02:53 PM) I do... Oct 14 2009, 02:45 PM Not of this World After all the years it has been dead. I find it in... Oct 14 2009, 07:39 PM tete QUOTE (Not of this World @ Oct 14 2009, 08... Oct 14 2009, 09:43 PM Semerkhet For the record, I always hated the pre-SR4 die mec... Oct 14 2009, 07:42 PM Omenowl When more time is spent playing the game and less ... Oct 15 2009, 03:15 AM Paul QUOTE (Omenowl @ Oct 14 2009, 10:15 PM) W... Oct 15 2009, 06:43 PM Malachi QUOTE (Paul @ Oct 15 2009, 12:43 PM) By t... Oct 15 2009, 07:06 PM Paul QUOTE (cndblank @ Oct 15 2009, 04:32 PM) ... Oct 16 2009, 01:05 AM AJCarrington QUOTE (Paul @ Oct 15 2009, 09:05 PM) (And... Oct 16 2009, 02:11 AM Warlordtheft QUOTE (Paul @ Oct 15 2009, 09:05 PM) Game... Oct 16 2009, 02:24 AM cndblank QUOTE (Paul @ Oct 15 2009, 01:43 PM) We... Oct 15 2009, 09:32 PM deek Paul makes a good point. In SR1, a lot of the tec... Oct 16 2009, 12:02 PM Blade The problem I see with "being creative" ... Oct 16 2009, 12:42 PM Semerkhet QUOTE (Blade @ Oct 16 2009, 07:42 AM) The... Oct 16 2009, 05:39 PM deek Well, Augmentation, is my least favorite SR4 sourc... Oct 16 2009, 01:15 PM Medicineman Maybe all the ideas have dried up? Besides the str... Oct 16 2009, 02:41 PM ravensmuse Well, in a canon sense, Augmentation is a technica... Oct 16 2009, 04:17 PM |
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