Ammo Errata and possible changes to S&S, Nyx your input here is appriciated :) Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Outline Switch to: Standard Switch to: Linear+

[FriendoftheDork]

Hey I want to continue the off topic discussion in "best shadowrun work" thread here.

First of all I must admit I made my own house rules for ammo inspired by.. Synner was it?

Anyway here is how I do it, I'd like other opinions (and the errata itself, can't really remember it).

Flechette: Old stats: +2 DV, +2 AP. Although not quite as powerful as EX-EX, this ammo is easily available and legal with license.
My stats: +2 DV, +5 AP (but max AP=armor. Leather jacket vs flechette or buckshot=fail). I believe the errata was very similar.

EX-EX: Old stats: +2 DV -2 AP. As listed, probably the best ammo there is as it can do good damage AND penetrate armor with ease.
My stats: +2 DV +1 AP. Slightly nerfed, making it worse than APDS at armor penetration but better at pure damage.

EX: As above, except DV=+1.

S&S: Old stats DV= 6S, regardless,AP= -half Armor.
My stats: DV=4S and all Tasers have -2 DV to compensate.

These are what I can think of ATM.

[Ol' Scratch]

Especially with ammo. They have a bunch of very different ammo types, each offering something another one doesn't. Be it price, power, side-effect, weapon limitations, or availability.

And the thing is, S&S doesn't fit that scheme by RAW.

Funny, it seems to fit it just fine to me. It offers a fixed damage value, electrical damage, and halved armor. I'm not aware of any other ammo type that offers that. And it costs more than most of the other options, too. Huh. I must just have a bad copy of the rulebook or something.

For it to be a waste of space and utterly meaningless requires those options to never, ever be chosen by anyone.

No, statistically speaking there's always at least someone to pick something.

Yep. Too bad the statistic you're talking about is such a huge percentage. Munchkins and powergamers aside, I rarely ever see anyone choose Stick-n-Shock ammo except in the case of an emergency clip for special situations. And even that's fairly rare. I know hardly any of the NPCs in the game come loaded with it, too. But how could that possibly be?! How can SO MANY people NOT be chosing the munchkin's wet dream of ammo types?! Beep boop bop. Does not compute, Will Robinson. Does not compute.

I'm pretty sure all those people who don't choose it would greatly miss all those other options they do choose, too. Despite, you know, this ostrich-head-in-the-sand argument of yours.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Funny, it seems to fit it just fine to me. It offers a fixed damage value, electrical damage, and halved armor. I'm not aware of any other ammo type that offers that.

Yet you think it fits the frame of reference of any other general ammo just fine? And you missed the fact that the specialized delivery system, called a taser, is far worse?

Well – I don't… I think it fits the "Shotgun only" frame of reference much more.

And it costs more than most of the other options, too.

It does cost less than Flechette rounds. The high-tech selfcontained shock system projectile, miniaturized to fit into a light handgun costs less than a capsule of needles.

Too bad the statistic you're talking about is such a huge percentage. Munchkins and powergamers aside, I rarely ever see anyone choose Stick-n-Shock ammo except in the case of an emergency clip for special situations. And even that's fairly rare.

So you consider everyone using S&S by RAW as their primary ammunition a "munchkin and powergamer"?

Especially if they switch to another, appropriate ammo, depending on the situation – like shooting through obstacles with armor piercing ammunition? Optimiz0r madness, I know.

I know hardly any of the NPCs in the game come loaded with it, too. But how could that possibly be?!

Like I said – gross inconsistency.

By RAW, there is no point in a corp guard or police officer not to use it.

How can SO MANY people NOT be chosing the munchkin's wet dream of ammo types?!

The Stormwind Fallacy, apparently.

I'm pretty sure all those people who don't choose it would greatly miss all those other options they do choose, too.

I'm absolutlely certain they would despair if there ware a handfull less handguns listed. What would they do?
Make up new names and change some stats slighty? Crazytalk.

[knasser]

By RAW, there is no point in a corp guard or police officer not to use it.

Taser darts are cheaper than Stick N' Shock ammo. Also the tasers can be clearly non-lethal weapons, a pistol with stick n' shock in it is no different to a gun with regular ammo in it. It may be preferable to have the mall cops carrying tasers than pistols. Tasers have less range so you're not going to be hitting innocent bystanders so much with a taser dart, again - see mall cops. Once you step outside the view point of a numbers-focused PC, reasons for variants to exist become apparent even just mechanically. Though basically you're arguing from the point of view that you're not interested in having that variety whereas other people like it (myself included).

I'm absolutlely certain they would despair if there ware a handfull less handguns listed. What would they do?
Make up new names and change some stats slighty? Crazytalk.

Well you can make up any rules and fluff for yourself if you want to, but we buy these games because we want them done for us. And I crack open my copy of SR4 and I find that they've done exactly what you suggested - made up some names and changed some stats slightly. Perfect - job done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

K.