Aug 21 2006, 07:32 AM
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 881 Joined: 31-July 06 From: Denmark Member No.: 8,995 |
When people talk about breaking encryption, most of the time they think about breaking public key encryption.
Public key encryption is based on the idea that Alice and Bob meet on the internet and want to share encrypted information. They can then share public keys, do some simple and fast mathematical operations on them, do some more operations, and now they're ready to transmit encrypted data. The clever part here is that they don't have to agree on an encryption code before they "meet" on the internet, enabling encrypted traffic between strangers. This is because that even though Eve, who wants to spy on them, has picked up the data they transmitted between them to establish an encryption protocol, without Alice's or Bob's chosen private key (a very large prime number) she can't effectively "crack the code". The difficulty of the problem is basically one of factorizing a very large number that is the product of 2 very large primes. This just takes a really, really long time ("standard" professional current encryption takes months on supercomputers and 10,000ths of distributed computers to crack today). Build faster computers for cracking codes you say? The problem is that the complexity increases exponentially for the hacker - if computers get 1,000 times faster, the encrypters increase the complexity by 1,000 and are able to do their operations in the same time, while it now gets 1,000,000 times harder for the hacker so it now takes 1,000 times as long. The hacker just gets further and further behind as technology increases. There are 2 potential ways to, in the future, hack encryption fast: 1) develop a mathematical method to quickly integer factorize large numbers by conventional means. It has not been proven that this isn't possible, but everyone expects that it can't be done. I wouldn't put my money on this. 2) develop efficient quantum computers. Quantum computers can do some operations that theoretically lets them integer factorize "quickly" and they don't get hit by exponentional complexity as the encrypters increase the size of the prime numbers. Your average cyberdeck in 2070 obviously has a quantum computing module in there, letting it decrypt intercepted data quickly and easily. All of this is however based on the premise of public key encryption, which is the only way to do it for communication strangers. People who are not strangers don't use public keys though. They use one time codes. Before you separate, you agree on a list with a number of codes, which are basically just long strings of random numbers you use to encrypt the data. There isn't a mathematical pattern to them, and the hacker doesn't have anything he can number crunch. This is what a rigger would do with his drones. Back in the shop, he makes a one-time pad with each drone. What a hacker trying to intercept the traffic would hear is "Use code 23113132 [static for 100 milliseconds] Use code 654651651 [static for 100 milliseconds]". This can't be decrypted - there's no pattern, no numbers to crunch, nothing. The drone only accepts encrypted traffic, and the hacker can't spoof and encrypt a message - he doesn't know the encodings, so if he tries to send "Use code 7654435 [command]", the drone decrypts the command and gets static, so it disregards it. The only ways to hack a drone is 1) hack the cyberdeck of the rigger and get hold of the one-time pads (or got hold off them in some other way, like from his drone shop) 2) if the rigger enables the drone to accept normal communication traffic. Everything else is just plain unrealistic. This goes for encrypted comms between professional forces too btw. |
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Smokeskin Encryption and hacking drones Aug 21 2006, 07:32 AM
Muttley Althrough I can see what you mean. I myself would ... Aug 21 2006, 09:24 AM
mfb but it would add a very cool, very different other... Aug 21 2006, 10:06 AM
Konsaki Hmm... this rigger is using one time codes...
...... Aug 21 2006, 10:15 AM
mfb that only works if you can find his drone. and if ... Aug 21 2006, 10:27 AM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Konsaki) Hmm... this rigger is using one ti... Aug 21 2006, 10:37 AM
Smokeskin QUOTE (mfb) all you're doing with random noise... Aug 21 2006, 10:39 AM
mfb true. even so, the likelihood of getting a useable... Aug 21 2006, 10:44 AM
Serbitar Shadowrun is not about realism. Its about a certai... Aug 21 2006, 10:56 AM
Rotbart van Dainig Using OTPs for transmissions requires packet-encry... Aug 21 2006, 11:15 AM
Smokeskin @RvD: The code jumps aren't necessary for encr... Aug 21 2006, 11:52 AM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Serbitar) Shadowrun is not about realism. I... Aug 21 2006, 12:01 PM
Rotbart van Dainig Certainly, I'm no cryptoanalyst, but that appr... Aug 21 2006, 12:09 PM
Smokeskin The whole setup is really just making the OTP extr... Aug 21 2006, 12:51 PM
The Jopp Well, there are ways of completely cut of any kind... Aug 21 2006, 12:59 PM
Serbitar QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Aug 21 2006, 07:01 AM) If ... Aug 21 2006, 01:18 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (The Jopp) Well, there are ways of completel... Aug 21 2006, 01:21 PM
Lebo77 QUOTE (Konsaki) Hmm... this rigger is using one ti... Aug 21 2006, 01:26 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Serbitar) QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Aug 21 20... Aug 21 2006, 01:30 PM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Smokeskin) The whole setup is really just m... Aug 21 2006, 01:42 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) QUOTE (Smokeskin ... Aug 21 2006, 02:16 PM
hobgoblin ah, the age old one-time pad, when will the debate... Aug 21 2006, 02:43 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (hobgoblin) ah, the age old one-time pad, wh... Aug 21 2006, 02:48 PM
The Jopp QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Aug 21 2006, 01:21 PM)
Ex... Aug 21 2006, 02:50 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (The Jopp) QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Aug 21 20... Aug 21 2006, 03:10 PM
The Jopp QUOTE (Smokeskin)
You don't have to hack the ... Aug 21 2006, 03:25 PM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Smokeskin)QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)QUOTE (... Aug 21 2006, 05:00 PM
Aaron Excuse me while I wade in with my own 2¥ ...
I th... Aug 21 2006, 05:03 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)QUOTE (Smokeskin)
This i... Aug 21 2006, 06:20 PM
hobgoblin QUOTE (Smokeskin) QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)QUOTE ... Aug 21 2006, 06:43 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Aug 21 2006, 08:43 PM) and... Aug 21 2006, 07:00 PM
Aaron I thought it might aid the discussion to explain a... Aug 21 2006, 07:08 PM
deek Based on what I have been reading here, it seems t... Aug 21 2006, 07:09 PM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Smokeskin)Then you haven't understood t... Aug 21 2006, 07:20 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Aaron @ Aug 21 2006, 09:08 PM) QUOTE (... Aug 21 2006, 07:24 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) QUOTE (Smokeskin)Then y... Aug 21 2006, 07:37 PM
Exodus Has anyone stopped to think.... Maybe its somethin... Aug 21 2006, 07:41 PM
hobgoblin QUOTE As to the reality of unbreakable encryption ... Aug 21 2006, 07:59 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (hobgoblin) any encryption is in theory brea... Aug 21 2006, 08:23 PM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Smokeskin)Well, that doesn't really hav... Aug 21 2006, 08:49 PM
mfb there's no such thing as a perfectly-implement... Aug 21 2006, 10:34 PM
Eyeless Blond QUOTE (mfb @ Aug 21 2006, 02:34 PM) using OTP... Aug 22 2006, 12:20 AM
mfb i meant "in constant use", eg for stream... Aug 22 2006, 12:35 AM
Eyeless Blond Not much of a downside for a rigger, as he gets di... Aug 22 2006, 03:58 AM
mfb there are balancing factors you can fudge to make ... Aug 22 2006, 06:23 AM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) QUOTE (Smokeskin)Well, ... Aug 22 2006, 06:32 AM
Smokeskin QUOTE (mfb @ Aug 22 2006, 12:34 AM) there... Aug 22 2006, 06:45 AM
mfb unpredictability works, for cryptology, but not as... Aug 22 2006, 08:07 AM
Aaron QUOTE (mfb) there's no such thing as a perfect... Aug 22 2006, 04:11 PM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Aaron) However, a non-mathematical algorith... Aug 22 2006, 04:19 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) QUOTE (Aaron @ Aug... Aug 22 2006, 04:55 PM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Smokeskin)Correct me if I'm wrong, but ... Aug 22 2006, 05:01 PM
Red For all the back and forth here about what can and... Aug 22 2006, 05:16 PM
Aaron QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)QUOTE (Aaron @ Aug ... Aug 22 2006, 06:44 PM
Aaron QUOTE (Red @ Aug 22 2006, 12:16 PM) For all t... Aug 22 2006, 07:04 PM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Aaron)That's why I said "unbreakab... Aug 22 2006, 07:08 PM
Aaron QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)Unbreakable means exactl... Aug 22 2006, 07:47 PM
sfogarty I am assuming that every implementation of encrypt... Aug 22 2006, 07:52 PM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Aaron)I posted a link to a PDF up above. Re... Aug 22 2006, 08:30 PM
Smokeskin I'm through debating this with you RvD. OTPs a... Aug 22 2006, 08:35 PM
Aaron QUOTE (sfogarty) I am assuming that every implemen... Aug 22 2006, 08:50 PM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Smokeskin)I'm through debating this wit... Aug 22 2006, 08:52 PM
Aaron QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)Just both are utterly ir... Aug 22 2006, 09:29 PM
Rotbart van Dainig Bah, your FlameFu is as weak as your knowledge of ... Aug 22 2006, 10:07 PM
M.Fillmore.1138 QUOTE (Aaron)And if one OTP table runs out of entr... Aug 22 2006, 11:25 PM
Aaron QUOTE (M.Fillmore.1138) The best way is to just co... Aug 23 2006, 12:07 AM
Red QUOTE (Aaron) QUOTE (Red @ Aug 22 2006, 12:16... Aug 23 2006, 12:09 AM
Smokeskin Alright, let's look at some of your ideas:
QU... Aug 23 2006, 04:24 AM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Smokeskin)Sure, you can make OTPs that are ... Aug 23 2006, 10:39 AM
Aaron Smokeskin, you don't need to use a PRNG. In fa... Aug 23 2006, 05:23 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Aaron) Smokeskin, you don't need to use... Aug 23 2006, 07:24 PM
Aaron QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Aug 23 2006, 02:24 PM) I g... Aug 23 2006, 08:16 PM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Smokeskin) Didn't Johnny Mnemonic encry... Aug 23 2006, 11:16 PM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Aaron) QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Aug 23 2006,... Aug 24 2006, 05:53 AM
Aaron QUOTE (Smokeskin)Then I don't think I understo... Aug 24 2006, 07:27 AM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Aaron) So I believe it's a reasonable a... Aug 24 2006, 10:01 AM
Smokeskin QUOTE (Aaron) QUOTE (Smokeskin)Then I don't th... Aug 24 2006, 04:18 PM
Aaron QUOTE (Smokeskin) Only encrypting commands wouldn... Aug 24 2006, 04:50 PM
Crusher Bob QUOTE (Smokeskin) ...
Anyway, back to the public ... Aug 25 2006, 04:26 AM
Aaron QUOTE (Crusher Bob) In theory, you can generate ra... Aug 25 2006, 04:37 AM
kzt From a theoretical standpoint, anyone who wants to... Aug 27 2006, 10:21 AM
kzt QUOTE (Smokeskin) Your average cyberdeck in 2070 o... Sep 11 2006, 08:12 PM
Wiseman Trying to follow all that was one hell of a mental... Sep 13 2006, 02:38 PM
Rotbart van Dainig You have two problems here:
First, the encryption... Sep 13 2006, 07:52 PM
Wiseman I mean your right, and you definitely understand m... Sep 13 2006, 08:09 PM
Metalsmith QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Aug 21 2006, 02:32 AM) The... Sep 13 2006, 09:01 PM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (Wiseman) My only reason for bringing up OTR... Sep 13 2006, 09:19 PM
Wiseman QUOTE Essentially you would have two discs of the ... Sep 13 2006, 09:36 PM
Steak and Spirits I'm coming in late to this conversation. But,... Sep 13 2006, 10:17 PM![]() ![]() |
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