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> Speeding Up Hacking, A Matrix rant
Garrowolf
post Jan 27 2007, 05:10 AM
Post #1


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I was just looking at cetiah's post of his hacking rules as a way of speeding up hacking and I thought I would say something about speeding up hacking.

I understand that the official position of Fanpro is that hacking occurs by proxy of personas because the matrix just moves that fast. I don't disagree with the thought that computers will move faster and faster but I don't like the consequences of the way they thought this out.
Okay if they are saying that the persona is the one actually doing things because we are too slow then why not do that all the way? Make hacking a function of agents and not people. Then you can throw away all the matrix rules and have an agent roll. The rest occurs behind the scenes.

> Well that wouldn't be fun and it would take away a character type. People who are interested in computers like to be able to deal with the matrix.

But the matrix system doesn't reflect actual computers. If you know much about computers then you know that most of this doesn't make any sense.

>But it could make sense in the future!

SO your making a detailed computer system to please the people who are interested in computers by making one that doesn't make sense to people who know computers? ( See Lewis Black for an expression about this logic, the one with the confounded jowl shaking)

I think that computers will be fast and are fast now but they still depend on people. They will be limited to what their computer is telling them. No one can stare at something at the rate these people are talking about. Making a perception test several times a second against all the traffic in a system for a normal 8 hour shift? Think about that for a second. You will end up will a drooling mess that can see anything anymore. It won't work. You are effectively increasing the time that they perceive by a factor of their initiative increase. So they are staring at something for effectively 24 hours! Even staring at the same area for more then a few minutes normal time will wear out a person. How is it going to feel with high resolution hyperactivity of the brain from all the input?

So we go back to programs making the perception tests. The spyder only pays attention when the programs tell him something. That way the poor spyder doesn't fall unconscious with a few minutes of his shift starting.

Now programs can make constant perception tests. Okay so for one why would the roll vary? They are artificial so they would notice the same amount of information all the time. So take it's average successes as a threshold.

So we have eliminated the problem of multiple perception tests by the system. If you are going to do something that they might think is strange then you just have to beat a perception threshold with your stealth.

We have sped things up alot so far! Now you don't have to worry about making perception tests for every second.

More in a bit.
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Posts in this topic
- Garrowolf   Speeding Up Hacking   Jan 27 2007, 05:10 AM
- - cetiah   QUOTE SO your making a detailed computer system to...   Jan 27 2007, 05:21 AM
- - Garrowolf   So at this point we can reflect several actions in...   Jan 27 2007, 05:37 AM
- - Garrowolf   QUOTE (cetiah) Actually, I think it's because ...   Jan 27 2007, 05:55 AM
- - cetiah   Update: 1 First of all, let's be clear about ...   Jan 27 2007, 06:36 AM
- - Serbitar   Well as I elaboreted in some other threads, the ma...   Jan 27 2007, 12:37 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE Thats why the simpelest Matrix rules are tho...   Jan 27 2007, 05:34 PM
- - Serbitar   Main line of thought is more like: Only roll for e...   Jan 27 2007, 05:43 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Serbitar) Main line of thought is more like...   Jan 27 2007, 06:15 PM
- - Serbitar   Well, perception test do not really fall into the ...   Jan 28 2007, 01:42 AM
- - cetiah   QUOTE After all, you can transform probabilities a...   Jan 28 2007, 03:15 AM
- - Garrowolf   Well one of the things that I tried to figure out ...   Jan 28 2007, 08:53 AM
- - Garrowolf   Cetiah, I think that you would be better enlighten...   Jan 28 2007, 09:15 AM
- - cetiah   QUOTE Cetiah, I think that you would be better en...   Jan 28 2007, 06:31 PM
- - cetiah   I'd just like to point out the irony of this s...   Jan 28 2007, 06:33 PM
- - Serbitar   @Garrowolf: Of course a perception test is usele...   Jan 28 2007, 06:51 PM
- - kzt   QUOTE (cetiah) This has a whole genre associated w...   Jan 28 2007, 07:01 PM
- - Brahm   QUOTE (Garrowolf @ Jan 27 2007, 12:10 AM) But...   Jan 28 2007, 07:02 PM
- - Garrowolf   What I was saying about the making a test to see i...   Jan 29 2007, 03:58 AM
- - Serbitar   Well, I am only suggestion one perception roll per...   Jan 29 2007, 09:31 AM
- - bait   There are also alot of assumptions about how compu...   Jan 29 2007, 09:44 AM
- - Garrowolf   I have been trying to find anything that says that...   Jan 29 2007, 10:16 AM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Garrowolf) I don't think that injecting...   Jan 29 2007, 01:36 PM
- - Synner   Just to clarify, VR in Shadowrun has always been a...   Jan 29 2007, 02:02 PM
- - Serbitar   I would toss in the idea, that on top of AR and VR...   Jan 29 2007, 03:30 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Serbitar) I would toss in the idea, that on...   Jan 29 2007, 04:19 PM
- - Garrowolf   Well that is why I was thinking of it from the GUI...   Jan 30 2007, 06:34 AM
- - Eryk the Red   I'll be honest. I haven't read every post ...   Jan 30 2007, 02:41 PM
- - Synner   Pretty good perspective. The way I've describe...   Jan 30 2007, 05:21 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Synner) Not sure that's as clear as I w...   Jan 30 2007, 07:03 PM
- - Synner   For two reasons basically: First because the IC i...   Jan 30 2007, 07:42 PM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (Synner @ Jan 30 2007, 06:21 PM) this i...   Jan 31 2007, 12:13 AM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Jan 31 2007, 12:13 AM) Tha...   Jan 31 2007, 01:46 AM
- - Garrowolf   Synner, the reason I was looking at it this way wa...   Jan 31 2007, 04:29 AM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (Synner @ Jan 31 2007, 02:46 AM) In th...   Jan 31 2007, 09:49 AM
- - Garrowolf   Actually a more interesting question is since your...   Jan 31 2007, 03:32 PM
- - Serbitar   Madness, LUNACY, INSANITY   Jan 31 2007, 04:15 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Garrowolf @ Jan 31 2007, 04:29 AM) Syn...   Jan 31 2007, 08:33 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Synner) QUOTE (Garrowolf @ Jan 31 2007...   Jan 31 2007, 09:40 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Synner) c) That a security system is a cohe...   Jan 31 2007, 10:26 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE d) That the "system" is omnipotent...   Jan 31 2007, 10:32 PM
- - Serbitar   I wonder how "played out like guards" sc...   Jan 31 2007, 10:39 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Serbitar) I wonder how "played out lik...   Jan 31 2007, 10:48 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Serbitar) Any ideas anyone? GitS?   Jan 31 2007, 10:49 PM
- - Serbitar   @cetiah Now I mean, how do you play out the ...   Jan 31 2007, 11:01 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Serbitar) I think I forgot everything in th...   Jan 31 2007, 11:20 PM
- - Serbitar   Whatever, Ive seen some stand alone complex series...   Jan 31 2007, 11:24 PM
- - DireRadiant   I think Ghost In the Shell is a contribution.   Jan 31 2007, 11:27 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Jan 31 2007, 06:27 PM) I...   Jan 31 2007, 11:30 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   You were searching for graphic interface and icono...   Jan 31 2007, 11:31 PM
- - Serbitar   Well, I told you twice now that I dont remember Gh...   Jan 31 2007, 11:36 PM
- - cetiah   To Serbiter: d) He's reacting to the tone of...   Jan 31 2007, 11:44 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Serbitar)Well, I told you twice now that I ...   Jan 31 2007, 11:44 PM
- - Serbitar   Well, thanks for telling me what I am looking for ...   Jan 31 2007, 11:55 PM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (cetiah @ Feb 1 2007, 12:44 AM) To Serb...   Feb 1 2007, 12:00 AM
- - FrankTrollman   Witht he specifics of guards (IC) looking for char...   Feb 1 2007, 12:15 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (FrankTrollman) The Virtual representation o...   Feb 1 2007, 12:29 AM
- - Serbitar   Well, my whole point is, that you most certainly c...   Feb 1 2007, 12:57 AM
- - Garrowolf   THANK YOU Frank, Robert, Serbiter, and Cetiah You ...   Feb 1 2007, 04:01 AM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 1 2007, 12:57 AM) Well,...   Feb 1 2007, 09:14 AM
- - RunnerPaul   QUOTE (Synner) Instead he suggested the GM handle ...   Feb 1 2007, 09:48 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (RunnerPaul) The problem with that suggestio...   Feb 1 2007, 10:12 AM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (Synner @ Feb 1 2007, 10:14 AM)  ...   Feb 1 2007, 10:27 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Serbitar) PS: What do you mean by "sec...   Feb 1 2007, 11:00 AM
- - Serbitar   I know, but what does it correspond to in SR4? Mis...   Feb 1 2007, 11:05 AM
- - RunnerPaul   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Feb 1 2007, 05:12...   Feb 1 2007, 12:25 PM
- - Serbitar   Another question: If the IC spots the hacker, so w...   Feb 1 2007, 12:32 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   No - he has rights, but no valid account.   Feb 1 2007, 12:36 PM
- - Serbitar   Still, you only can "see" user rights by...   Feb 1 2007, 01:18 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Rights may be granted to a certain identity, but t...   Feb 1 2007, 02:15 PM
- - Serbitar   Well, that depends on the view. I see it like this...   Feb 1 2007, 03:02 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Indeed. Any normal account has flags for rights an...   Feb 1 2007, 03:46 PM
- - Blade   I think that the hacker doesn't have the Matri...   Feb 1 2007, 04:11 PM
- - Spike   If I read the RAW correctly, and I think I do... w...   Feb 1 2007, 04:40 PM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Feb 1 2007, 04:46...   Feb 1 2007, 04:55 PM
- - RunnerPaul   So, no one has any reasons, other than Rotbart...   Feb 1 2007, 06:00 PM
- - FrankTrollman   For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that ...   Feb 1 2007, 06:08 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (<Serbitar>)Well, that depends on the ...   Feb 1 2007, 06:44 PM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (FrankTrollman) For what it's worth, I...   Feb 1 2007, 07:23 PM
- - kzt   QUOTE (cetiah) It sounds like you're saying th...   Feb 1 2007, 07:28 PM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (cetiah) Serbitar, you almost always revert...   Feb 1 2007, 07:34 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 1 2007, 02:34 PM) But y...   Feb 1 2007, 08:01 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (cetiah) So, definition of hacker: Someone ...   Feb 1 2007, 08:12 PM
- - Serbitar   catiah: What you are trying to describe is kernels...   Feb 1 2007, 08:14 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) Trying to manually modi...   Feb 1 2007, 08:28 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   My head hurts now, thank you very much.   Feb 1 2007, 08:47 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 1 2007, 03:14 PM) catia...   Feb 1 2007, 09:05 PM
- - Serbitar   Well, there is only userspace and kernelspace. All...   Feb 1 2007, 09:27 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 1 2007, 04:27 PM) Well,...   Feb 1 2007, 10:43 PM
- - Serbitar   Well, actually I dont really care how hacking work...   Feb 1 2007, 10:56 PM
- - mrlost   Oh is that how its supposed to work? I thought you...   Feb 1 2007, 11:17 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Oooh, they used a rainbow table to attack a stored...   Feb 1 2007, 11:27 PM
- - Spike   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) Oooh, they used a rainb...   Feb 1 2007, 11:29 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Spike) QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Feb...   Feb 1 2007, 11:40 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Serbitar) Well, actually I dont really care...   Feb 1 2007, 11:49 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Gorrawolf) The point I would like to get to...   Feb 1 2007, 11:49 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (cetiah) QUOTE (Rotbart)What do you mean by ...   Feb 1 2007, 11:57 PM
- - cetiah   Always glad to help.   Feb 2 2007, 12:00 AM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (cetiah @ Feb 2 2007, 12:49 AM) Serbite...   Feb 2 2007, 12:42 AM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (cetiah)QUOTE (Serbiter) Well, thats an inte...   Feb 2 2007, 12:49 AM
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