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> Magic the real UMT, This is mainly a rules issue
Cynic project
post Jan 30 2007, 07:43 PM
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This thread will go into detail why if you must have different spirits for threats based on mind sets than you much have them for all different mind sets.

The fact is that insanity is a tricky thing to put a finger on and the 100 monkey rules rarely works.

Insect spirits do not need separate rules neither do shadim(sp) but you may argue that deep meta-planer spirits do need separate rules. That is a valid point.

I will go into detail in this thread why threats do not need new spirits from a rules point of view, and from a flavor point of view first before I go onto deep metplot spirits.

One, what do redemption cultist, nihilists, rebirthist , atheseists , agnostic, polytheists, and ceril killers have in common? They all most all would likely say that at least have of them are insane. To a polytheists the idea that there is no gods is silly, just as the idea that we will go to hell unless we bow down to one and only one god... I could point out more examples of this sort of logic but let's face it. Go to nearest Church, and ask the preacher or whatever.. Is it okay for you to bow down to Zeus as well as Jesus..I mean Jesus is just away to great Zeus..Hey. Zeus .

Now let's get down to the myth of the 100 monkeys. See about I think 40 years ago people started to notice that some monkeys on some island started to wash their food before eating them. They put out this paper saying that slowly monkeys would teach other monkeys to wash their food.Or some monkeys would copy the other monkeys. That is until one day 100 monkeys learned how to do this. Then not only did the monkeys that island who were not in those 100 monkeys started to wash their food, but monkeys on other islands did the same... An over night thing. The problem is that well over 10 years of the study what really happened was that some monkeys learned to clean their food, and some did not. Some islands had more monkeys that cleaned their food than other but no single island had all their monkeys do this, and well...

This boils down to this, if magic worked in away it did not matter what you thought of you magic or how you thought as it clearly does. THen toxic magic should be the same

More later...
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Posts in this topic
- Cynic project   Magic the real UMT   Jan 30 2007, 07:43 PM
- - Eryk the Red   Here's the real reason to have special rules f...   Jan 30 2007, 07:50 PM
- - DireRadiant   What? The Insect and Shedim don't follow my ru...   Jan 30 2007, 07:52 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Cynic project) polytheists Not to quibb...   Jan 30 2007, 07:53 PM
- - Eryk the Red   The other side of this (that I like) is that in my...   Jan 30 2007, 08:08 PM
- - Demerzel   QUOTE (Eryk the Red) there might one day be a work...   Jan 30 2007, 08:23 PM
- - Ryu   The unified magic ruleset for all pc spirits is ni...   Jan 31 2007, 09:17 AM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (Cynic project)One, what do redemption culti...   Jan 31 2007, 10:43 AM
- - Eryk the Red   I'm not sure that someone being from America i...   Jan 31 2007, 01:45 PM
- - Serbitar   Im also hostile to drug abuse and child porn. Is h...   Jan 31 2007, 01:54 PM
- - Eryk the Red   I hate for this to devolve into a religious argume...   Jan 31 2007, 02:08 PM
- - emo samurai   But the thing is, even if 80% of religious people ...   Jan 31 2007, 02:20 PM
- - Thain   QUOTE (Serbitar @ Jan 31 2007, 05:43 AM) Your...   Jan 31 2007, 02:32 PM
- - eidolon   Now that Thain has moved it back to Shadowrun, let...   Jan 31 2007, 02:37 PM
- - Eryk the Red   Personally, I think of shamans as Jazz musicians, ...   Jan 31 2007, 02:51 PM
- - NightmareX   QUOTE (Cynic project)One, what do redemption culti...   Jan 31 2007, 03:08 PM
- - Thain   QUOTE (NightmareX) I like the music analogy, and t...   Jan 31 2007, 03:33 PM
- - NightmareX   QUOTE (Thain) Insect Magic is just... well... its ...   Jan 31 2007, 03:37 PM
- - FrankTrollman   Reading this thread is like getting a fork stuck d...   Jan 31 2007, 09:47 PM
- - Serbitar   Good post (Offical Frank Fanboi, well, most of th...   Jan 31 2007, 11:14 PM
- - Thain   Faith vs. Reason Eidolon asked that this thread f...   Feb 1 2007, 12:30 AM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (NightmareX) QUOTE (Cynic project)One, what ...   Feb 1 2007, 12:32 AM
- - Thain   QUOTE (Cynic project) Point to one monothiist reli...   Feb 1 2007, 12:46 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Isn't Scientology only moneytheistic?   Feb 1 2007, 12:49 AM
- - Cynic project   No to get away form religion and back tot he main ...   Feb 1 2007, 12:50 AM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (Thain) QUOTE (Cynic project @ Jan 31 2...   Feb 1 2007, 12:53 AM
- - Thain   You are incorrect on a number of points there. Fir...   Feb 1 2007, 01:03 AM
- - FrankTrollman   Technically, the core of Christianity is that ever...   Feb 1 2007, 01:05 AM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (Thain) Faith vs. Reason Eidolon asked that...   Feb 1 2007, 01:09 AM
- - Thain   Frank, that is the saddest interpertation of Chris...   Feb 1 2007, 01:22 AM
- - fistandantilus3.0   Actually it'll be gold. I like the UMT info,...   Feb 1 2007, 01:26 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Thain) you don't need to be a Christian...   Feb 1 2007, 01:27 AM
- - Thain   Shhh! Do not anger the men with the funny colo...   Feb 1 2007, 01:30 AM
- - fistandantilus3.0   I've always liked the UMT idea, from when it w...   Feb 1 2007, 01:38 AM
- - Serbitar   Well, I personally dont like this "hey, we ha...   Feb 1 2007, 01:43 AM
- - Thain   Sort of like Metallica playing a concert with the ...   Feb 1 2007, 01:43 AM
- - fistandantilus3.0   reinterpratation? Suspension of Disbelief? LSD? I...   Feb 1 2007, 01:45 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Thain) When the learn to summon Mantis Spir...   Feb 1 2007, 01:48 AM
- - Thain   QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) QUOTE Sort of like Metal...   Feb 1 2007, 01:48 AM
- - fistandantilus3.0   You'd think I would know better. QUOTE Well,...   Feb 1 2007, 01:51 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   And that did work out how long? The first one-nigh...   Feb 1 2007, 01:53 AM
- - fistandantilus3.0   hehe... actually yes The character only made it...   Feb 1 2007, 02:02 AM
- - FrankTrollman   While it is traditional to try to pass off Mantis ...   Feb 1 2007, 02:36 AM
- - fistandantilus3.0   Yeah I had a suprisingly hard time w/ mantis. One ...   Feb 1 2007, 02:44 AM
- - Grinder   Got the shaman killed because it was an insect sha...   Feb 1 2007, 11:24 AM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) QUOTE (Thain) you don...   Feb 1 2007, 05:23 PM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (Thain) Frank, that is the saddest interpert...   Feb 1 2007, 05:26 PM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE (fist)but anyone worth while was going ot be...   Feb 1 2007, 06:03 PM
- - fistandantilus3.0   The character I made was part of the yaks. Low lev...   Feb 1 2007, 07:12 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (FrankTrollman) (you can make a fleshform ou...   Feb 1 2007, 08:15 PM
- - NightmareX   QUOTE (Cynic project)Point to one monothiist relig...   Feb 2 2007, 09:55 AM
- - Trigger   QUOTE (NightmareX) Which is why I think the threat...   Feb 2 2007, 10:05 AM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (NightmareX) QUOTE (Cynic project)Point to o...   Feb 2 2007, 09:58 PM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (Trigger) QUOTE (NightmareX @ Feb 2 200...   Feb 2 2007, 10:03 PM
- - Trigger   QUOTE (Cynic project) QUOTE (Trigger @ Feb 2 ...   Feb 2 2007, 10:09 PM
- - Cynic project   A mage is a 3-4 point power site that is only good...   Feb 2 2007, 10:16 PM
- - NightmareX   QUOTE (Cynic project) On top of that you have the ...   Feb 3 2007, 11:14 PM
- - ornot   The UMT info in this thread is mighty interesting....   Feb 3 2007, 11:40 PM
- - NightmareX   QUOTE (ornot) The UMT info in this thread is might...   Feb 3 2007, 11:59 PM
- - ornot   well... maybe not info, but certainly points of vi...   Feb 4 2007, 12:02 AM
- - fistandantilus3.0   Exactly what the UMT is all about.. point of view.   Feb 4 2007, 12:40 AM
- - NightmareX   QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)Exactly what the UMT is a...   Feb 4 2007, 12:49 AM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (NightmareX) QUOTE (Cynic project @ Feb...   Feb 4 2007, 02:53 AM
- - NightmareX   QUOTE (Cynic project)The twisted are different bec...   Feb 4 2007, 07:46 AM
- - Garrowolf   I personally do not like the way magic has been un...   Feb 4 2007, 08:28 AM
- - Trigger   I must say I am glad that you wrote those out as I...   Feb 4 2007, 09:23 AM
- - Garrowolf   It doesn't make it cheaper then normal. The wa...   Feb 4 2007, 10:36 AM
- - ornot   It is an interesting take on things, but I feel it...   Feb 4 2007, 04:43 PM
- - Garrowolf   okay I admit I made a math error. I still think th...   Feb 5 2007, 04:21 AM
- - ornot   That is mighty interesting. It could work well wit...   Feb 6 2007, 01:20 AM
- - Garrowolf   actually I tend to do just that with new players i...   Feb 6 2007, 04:51 AM
- - Cynic project   Great Garrwolf, wonderful job. Take simple rules t...   Feb 6 2007, 08:36 PM
- - eidolon   Maybe you could post examples of how they are brok...   Feb 6 2007, 08:52 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Seriously? All spirits?   Feb 6 2007, 09:00 PM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (eidolon) Maybe you could post examples of h...   Feb 6 2007, 09:19 PM
- - Garrowolf   cherry pick the best and screw the rest? Are you s...   Feb 7 2007, 08:04 AM
- - NightmareX   QUOTE (Garrowolf)I personally do not like the way ...   Feb 7 2007, 09:48 AM
- - Garrowolf   Interesting. The mechanics this way seem to actual...   Feb 7 2007, 10:50 AM
- - NightmareX   QUOTE (Garrowolf) Interesting. The mechanics this ...   Feb 7 2007, 11:57 AM
- - Thain   QUOTE (Garrowolf) Interesting. The mechanics this ...   Feb 7 2007, 03:02 PM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (Thain) QUOTE (Garrowolf @ Feb 7 2007, ...   Feb 7 2007, 03:44 PM
- - Thain   QUOTE (Cynic project) But your rules do not match ...   Feb 7 2007, 05:05 PM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (Thain) QUOTE (Cynic project @ Feb 7 20...   Feb 7 2007, 06:39 PM
- - Garrowolf   Hey, if you don't see a problem with it don...   Feb 8 2007, 04:16 AM
- - Trigger   QUOTE (Garrowolf) Hey, if you don't see a prob...   Feb 8 2007, 10:21 AM
- - Synner   I'll reiterate this because its becoming an al...   Feb 8 2007, 11:58 AM
- - Thain   Actually, I think your are confusing an in game bi...   Feb 8 2007, 01:33 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Thain) If I decide my Street Samurai will o...   Feb 8 2007, 01:39 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE Look at it this way, in D&D Divine Magic...   Feb 8 2007, 01:45 PM
- - Thain   There are clear cut mechanical differences between...   Feb 8 2007, 01:51 PM
- - Garrowolf   IF the idea of the setting was to include referenc...   Feb 8 2007, 06:48 PM
- - Thain   QUOTE SR3 made a good attempt to show that there w...   Feb 8 2007, 07:15 PM
- - eidolon   QUOTE (Thain)If you want Comparative Relgions 202:...   Feb 8 2007, 07:49 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   Yeah, that 2042 entry is silly.   Feb 8 2007, 07:51 PM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (Thain) QUOTE SR3 made a good attempt to sho...   Feb 9 2007, 02:40 AM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Cynic project) Well, let's point this ...   Feb 9 2007, 02:55 AM
- - Thain   QUOTE (Cynic project) Well, let's point this l...   Feb 9 2007, 03:42 AM
- - RunnerPaul   For money! Don't forget that bit.   Feb 9 2007, 04:03 AM
- - Thain   QUOTE (RunnerPaul) For money! Don't forget...   Feb 9 2007, 05:22 AM
- - NightmareX   QUOTE (Garrowolf)IF shadowrun were based on a diff...   Feb 10 2007, 12:09 PM
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