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> Non-Ranged Combat, Does it really suck so much?
deek
post May 21 2007, 12:58 PM
Post #1


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I've searched the forums and can't find any discussions on this topic. The situation we came up against in our game yesterday was a player to player in-game fight, where one was using Unarmed combat and the other, with no type of melee skills, was shooting at close range.

What we found was that the melee combatant had to deal with a Reaction + melee skill, opposed roll with the defender, but on the flip side, the shooter was simply able to move out of melee and fire with no real penalty, and dropped the other player down to defending with just reaction.

After the session, we discussed this and it just didn't seem right that melee combat was so weak. If a shooter can always just step out of close range and fire without penalty, why would anyone NOT use a gun? Seeing that melee is also a complex action, how is this every going to come out with a martial artist build on top?

I'm not saying it should, granted, but it seems that it should be a little more fair. I mean, if I had a gun (which I can shoot SA twice per phase), and and Bruce Lee was attacking me, I don't think my gun would be of too much use in the fight...

So what am I missing here and what have others experienced?
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Posts in this topic
- deek   Non-Ranged Combat   May 21 2007, 12:58 PM
- - hobgoblin   there is a reason why guns took over for the sword...   May 21 2007, 01:01 PM
- - Thanee   Isn't there a penalty for shooting while in me...   May 21 2007, 01:03 PM
- - deek   The only two things we could find is: -3 when att...   May 21 2007, 01:12 PM
- - Thanee   QUOTE (deek) The thing is, the attack can, at any ...   May 21 2007, 01:16 PM
- - hobgoblin   the attacker needs to be atleast 2 meters away fro...   May 21 2007, 01:23 PM
- - Narmio   I would go with what Thanee suggested. Given how ...   May 21 2007, 02:44 PM
- - DireRadiant   The game mechanics are abstraction. Things break d...   May 21 2007, 02:52 PM
- - sunnyside   Actually if a person tries to move out of CC they ...   May 21 2007, 03:11 PM
- - Degausser   I think the shooter has been playing too much d20....   May 21 2007, 03:14 PM
- - ornot   It seems that what your player is failing to under...   May 21 2007, 03:33 PM
- - deek   I'll have to look at the interception rules. ...   May 21 2007, 03:33 PM
- - Thanee   QUOTE (sunnyside) ...they trigger the interception...   May 21 2007, 04:25 PM
- - Shadow   I think ranged weapons trump melee weapons and tha...   May 21 2007, 04:34 PM
- - Shadow   QUOTE (Thanee) QUOTE (sunnyside @ May 21 2007...   May 21 2007, 04:35 PM
- - Jaid   basically, melee can only work for adepts who are ...   May 21 2007, 05:25 PM
- - OSUMacbeth   I've changed the melee rules a bit for my camp...   May 21 2007, 05:25 PM
- - Ravor   I don't know, I guess I'm too big of a fan...   May 21 2007, 05:35 PM
- - Kyoto Kid   QUOTE (Shadow)Guns are better than swords. Thats j...   May 21 2007, 05:46 PM
- - Jack Kain   In a world with guns specializing in melee combat ...   May 21 2007, 05:53 PM
- - Cheops   You can only fire pistols in melee (with that -3 p...   May 21 2007, 06:04 PM
- - ronin3338   QUOTE (Ravor) ... all things being equal, someone ...   May 21 2007, 06:22 PM
- - Demon_Bob   QUOTE (DireRadiant) The game mechanics are abstrac...   May 21 2007, 06:32 PM
- - Ravor   QUOTE (ronin3338)All things being equal, within 20...   May 21 2007, 06:38 PM
- - WhiskeyMac   I would give the Gun Guy the Attacker in Melee Com...   May 21 2007, 06:44 PM
- - Demon_Bob   The reason guns normally win is because combat is ...   May 21 2007, 06:46 PM
- - WhiskeyMac   I disagree with that statement to a point. If both...   May 21 2007, 06:53 PM
- - knasser   QUOTE (OSUMacbeth) I believe in a game where you g...   May 21 2007, 06:56 PM
- - Degausser   I think Melee is great in some situations, but not...   May 21 2007, 06:56 PM
- - sunnyside   Three comments. First when talking about the swor...   May 21 2007, 07:07 PM
- - Demon_Bob   QUOTE (knasser) It's always been more of a Roc...   May 21 2007, 07:08 PM
- - mfb   if the melee character is within melee range of th...   May 21 2007, 07:12 PM
- - Spike   QUOTE (Ravor) As for police not letting someone...   May 21 2007, 07:13 PM
- - Ravor   *Waits for the next part of the debate where someo...   May 21 2007, 07:34 PM
- - Spike   QUOTE (Ravor @ May 21 2007, 11:34 AM) So tha...   May 21 2007, 08:15 PM
- - deek   Going back to my original example, I think that th...   May 21 2007, 08:27 PM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE Besides, have you ever heard of a drive by k...   May 21 2007, 08:31 PM
- - Turtleboy   been reading this thread from the beginning but ra...   May 21 2007, 08:53 PM
- - kzt   QUOTE (HappyDaze) No, but a walk-by shanking is pr...   May 21 2007, 08:57 PM
- - Kyoto Kid   QUOTE (WhiskeyMac)I think guns are better in most ...   May 21 2007, 08:58 PM
- - knasser   I've done some martial arts training with kniv...   May 21 2007, 09:00 PM
- - kzt   QUOTE (Turtleboy) melee vs. ranged combatants with...   May 21 2007, 09:04 PM
- - Ravor   QUOTE (Spike)I don't know exactly what proof y...   May 21 2007, 09:27 PM
- - Spike   Rav: you are seriously tempting me to go look up t...   May 21 2007, 10:01 PM
- - kzt   QUOTE (Ravor)Serious though, about the only thing ...   May 21 2007, 10:02 PM
- - Shadow   We have had this trhead before. There is always so...   May 21 2007, 10:22 PM
- - mfb   i think the main problem people have is that when ...   May 21 2007, 10:35 PM
- - Spike   Just to clarify mfb: the article actually suggest...   May 21 2007, 11:15 PM
- - Jagger   Interesting... I wonder why Doc Holiday never got ...   May 21 2007, 11:19 PM
- - Jack Kain   QUOTE (Jagger) Interesting... I wonder why Doc Hol...   May 21 2007, 11:35 PM
- - Shadow   QUOTE (Spike) the article actually suggests that 3...   May 22 2007, 12:31 AM
- - Shadow   QUOTE (Jack Kain) QUOTE (Jagger @ May 21 2007...   May 22 2007, 12:34 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE I don't know what to say to this. It...   May 22 2007, 12:37 AM
- - HappyDaze   Anyone out there want to try this out IRL with an ...   May 22 2007, 12:39 AM
- - Shadow   It was a rough estimation. And I did read it. Usin...   May 22 2007, 12:40 AM
- - Spike   QUOTE (Shadow @ May 21 2007, 04:31 PM) I don...   May 22 2007, 12:48 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE If you think that you are going to die if yo...   May 22 2007, 12:48 AM
- - Heimdalol   I think the thing is if you're that close (6-8...   May 22 2007, 12:49 AM
- - Shadow   I read what was posted, all my responses were to w...   May 22 2007, 01:03 AM
- - Jagger   This is so situational it's not even worth tal...   May 22 2007, 01:37 AM
- - WearzManySkins   If you a "trained" Point Shooter, aiming...   May 22 2007, 02:35 AM
- - Demon_Bob   QUOTE (Shadow) I don't know what to say to thi...   May 22 2007, 03:28 AM
- - Heimdalol   QUOTE (Shadow) I read what was posted, all my resp...   May 22 2007, 04:03 AM
- - MaxHunter   and there is always the dying blow rule. You could...   May 22 2007, 04:18 AM
- - Squinky   QUOTE (Demon_Bob) QUOTE (Shadow @ May 21 2007...   May 22 2007, 04:22 AM
- - mfb   QUOTE (Shadow)I seriously doubt the validity of an...   May 22 2007, 04:24 AM
- - Crusher Bob   The '21 foot rule' is based on the officer...   May 22 2007, 04:28 AM
- - Whipstitch   To get us back on topic a bit here, as some have h...   May 22 2007, 06:52 AM
- - kzt   QUOTE (Shadow)Forget the movies, and science ficti...   May 22 2007, 02:54 PM
- - lunchbox311   It is all situational. I think the rules work just...   May 22 2007, 03:29 PM
- - Kyoto Kid   QUOTE (kzt)Motivated and aggressive adversaries ca...   May 22 2007, 03:33 PM
- - sunnyside   Well that's just a thing SR, a very few RPGs m...   May 22 2007, 04:06 PM
- - DireRadiant   Dead Man's trigger?   May 22 2007, 04:27 PM
- - Ravor   QUOTE (Spike)Rav: you are seriously tempting me to...   May 22 2007, 05:18 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   QUOTE (Ravor) Umm, while prison shankings are some...   May 22 2007, 05:30 PM
- - Ravor   Well considering that the cure for CANCER seems to...   May 22 2007, 05:35 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   touche   May 22 2007, 05:36 PM
- - mfb   QUOTE (Ravor)It clearly talks about the fact that ...   May 22 2007, 05:39 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   Bullets are just a way to stab someone from really...   May 22 2007, 05:45 PM
- - psychophipps   QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) Bullets are just a way to stab s...   May 22 2007, 05:48 PM
- - Ravor   Yes mfb, I AGREE with what you are saying about wh...   May 22 2007, 05:52 PM
- - mfb   okay, i see where you're coming from. it still...   May 22 2007, 07:02 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   QUOTE (mfb) and really? seriously? if knife guy an...   May 22 2007, 07:09 PM
- - Demon_Bob   QUOTE (mfb) okay, i see where you're coming fr...   May 22 2007, 07:14 PM
- - Spike   Ravor: You do realize I was one of the people poin...   May 22 2007, 07:33 PM
- - knasser   QUOTE (Demon_Bob) Ok. Settled, they both lose. ...   May 22 2007, 07:44 PM
- - mfb   yeah, that's the whole point of the Mozambique...   May 22 2007, 07:45 PM
- - Dizzman   Somewhere lost in this thread is the original thou...   May 22 2007, 07:53 PM
- - Jack Kain   I've said it before and I'll say it again,...   May 22 2007, 08:17 PM
- - Kyoto Kid   QUOTE (knasser)QUOTE (Demon_Bob @ May 22 2007...   May 22 2007, 08:19 PM
- - sunnyside   Ah this thread was worth it for the Mozambique dri...   May 22 2007, 08:44 PM
- - Ravor   QUOTE (Spike)Ravor: You do realize I was one of th...   May 22 2007, 09:20 PM
- - OSUMacbeth   These threads always amaze me, to a degree. I mean...   May 23 2007, 12:41 AM
- - Jagger   I'd say firearms replaced melee weapons becaus...   May 23 2007, 01:06 AM
- - mfb   QUOTE (OSUMacbeth)If you miss the head or heart, y...   May 23 2007, 01:11 AM
- - Jagger   So... who here has ever been shot? Just curious on...   May 23 2007, 01:13 AM
- - mfb   i've been shot with paintballs! once, it w...   May 23 2007, 01:19 AM
- - OSUMacbeth   I'm not saying some joe-punk who thinks holdin...   May 23 2007, 01:35 AM
- - WearzManySkins   QUOTE (Jagger) So... who here has ever been shot? ...   May 23 2007, 01:52 AM
- - OSUMacbeth   But to get the thread back on topic, weren't w...   May 23 2007, 02:04 AM
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