Jul 1 2007, 01:27 AM
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
I spent all of yesterday playing an abandonware title, Electronic Arts' SEAL Team from 1989. It's a wonderful game for 1989 which in my opinion has developed a lot of wonderful aspects of simulationist squad level game play which have not been well carried over today. SEAL Team isn't as sophisticated in its treatment of things that have been done increasingly well these days, like differentiating between the utility of being prone, crouched, or standing (in SEAL Team prone is basically always the best and running upright is always suicidal), or in the detailed mechanics of weapons (somehow there are no tactical reloads in SEAL Team!!!), but the wonderful aspect of this game is the flexibility with which you can call in air support or boat support for your team.
Unlike most games today which are basically about the skill of the gamer to defeat the bots SEAL Team constrains player effectiveness based on character skill. There's no way to aim better as a player and kill the enemy faster; the effectiveness of your rifle is based entirely on your character's effectiveness. If your team ends up in a dangerous situation the constructive solution is to call in your support units to help you out, which is a lot more realistic than a Physad-style miracle player killing 30 VC with ultra 100 meter headshots on one M16 mag while under heavy fire. (cough cough, Delta Force Black Hawk Down) The issues become then friendly fire, distant enemy alertness levels, and the length of time it takes for your air support to arrive. I appreciate that as something which isn't well done necessarily today. Anyway, as I was playing this game while trying to maximize my score I began to wonder if I wasn't by default somehow role-playing a sociopathic pointman. This was my second time playing through the game and I had been trying to maximize my score. Accordingly, in addition to completing the mission objectives, I exposed the virtual SEAL Team to a lot of extra risk by stalking around the map and attempting to kill each and every enemy present. Even if I had injured team members I still engaged in this behavior; I risked losing the characters if they were killed but I didn't care about that very much since my goal was to get the highest body count possible. If you think about it in terms of role playing anyone who plays a realism-themed or simulationist game that deals with combat would be portraying a sociopath. In real life a person who gets into a firefight could experience a long term mental trauma from the experience, like post traumatic stress disorder. From the perspective of the player controlling FPS hero, though, they're not real people and pants-wetting situations involving grenades exploding everywhere, team members dying and severed limbs splattering to the ground (thank you, Soldier of Fortune II) leads neither to fear, nor anger, nor even a strong emotional experience of any kind. It's all...mildly amusing. Imagine a possible conversation inside a FPS game: Private: "Oh my god, Jones is dead! He's in two pieces. Oh god, sarge, I heard him moaning until he stopped, but we were under fire, I couldn't do anything...." FPS hero sarge: "Hmm, I only got 34 headshots out of 40 shots fired. What a bother." Private: "We've got men down! What should we do?" FPS hero: "I need your sniper ammo." *kills private, takes his ammo* I suppose that if somebody were to choose to roleplay someone who doesn't register pain (he probably needs to feel it but literally doesn't care) and who had a sociopathic delusion that he was the hero of a realistic FPS game in a table top role playing game it would be a really weird experience at the gaming table. It might not be a successful character in the long term due to lack of good team playing, but I'll bet that it would be really weird to see. |
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Wounded Ronin Do videogames make you RP sociopaths by default? Jul 1 2007, 01:27 AM
Ravor Well I seem to recall reading on Dumpshock where s... Jul 1 2007, 02:40 AM
Wounded Ronin QUOTE (Ravor) Well I seem to recall reading on Dum... Jul 1 2007, 03:21 AM
Ravor Well you have to remember that I'm going purel... Jul 1 2007, 04:33 PM
Fix-it Yes.
but the reason we have games is so we don... Jul 1 2007, 04:46 PM
Critias What?
I thought they were for practice. Jul 1 2007, 04:55 PM
Wounded Ronin QUOTE (Critias) What?
I thought they were for pra... Jul 1 2007, 10:42 PM
Wounded Ronin QUOTE (Ravor)
I don't remember the poster say... Jul 1 2007, 10:44 PM
Critias QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) QUOTE (Critias @ Jul 1 ... Jul 1 2007, 10:50 PM
Wounded Ronin QUOTE (Critias) QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jul 1 ... Jul 1 2007, 10:55 PM
Critias Because other people already have their names plas... Jul 1 2007, 11:01 PM
Ravor QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)Ha ha, pwned! Of course, ... Jul 1 2007, 11:27 PM
hyzmarca QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jul 1 2007, 05:55 PM) ... Jul 2 2007, 08:23 AM
Talia Invierno *laugh*
Advertisements have power to shape attitu... Jul 2 2007, 02:58 PM
Ravor My eyes! Oh dear God my eyes are bleeding afte... Jul 2 2007, 03:35 PM
Fix-it Jack Thompson is in it for the money.
video game ... Jul 2 2007, 06:31 PM
hyzmarca He isn't just in it for the money. He appears ... Jul 2 2007, 06:37 PM
Moon-Hawk QUOTE (hyzmarca) Incidentally, he was Pwned by Jan... Jul 2 2007, 06:39 PM
Kagetenshi QUOTE (Ravor) But to answer your question, no I wa... Jul 2 2007, 07:15 PM
Critias "We prefer the term 'interspecies erotica... Jul 2 2007, 07:22 PM
hyzmarca While I do happily defend the rights of all indivi... Jul 2 2007, 09:13 PM
Ravor I'm sorry, but while I consider myself fairly ... Jul 2 2007, 09:35 PM
Kagetenshi QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jul 2 2007, 04:13 PM) To ad... Jul 2 2007, 09:38 PM
Wounded Ronin QUOTE (Ravor) My eyes! Oh dear God my eyes are... Jul 3 2007, 12:03 AM
Backgammon There was an article about Jack Thompson in a Roll... Jul 3 2007, 02:27 AM
fistandantilus3.0 I must say that I'm very impressed at the brea... Jul 3 2007, 03:56 AM
Critias Okay, dad.
The reason "role playing" ... Jul 3 2007, 04:39 AM
Talia Invierno Which is a bit like saying that for all SR tableto... Jul 3 2007, 06:45 AM
Critias Your sentence isn't making sense to me. I rec... Jul 3 2007, 07:16 AM
Talia Invierno Just rephrasing your last paragraph, Critias. Jul 3 2007, 07:21 AM
Critias The last paragraph is specifically in reference to... Jul 3 2007, 07:52 AM
Talia Invierno That was understood.
Maybe I should have added th... Jul 3 2007, 01:47 PM
Hocus Pocus QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)I spent all of yesterday
dud... Jul 14 2007, 11:52 PM
Wounded Ronin QUOTE (Hocus Pocus) QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)I spent a... Jul 15 2007, 03:33 AM
Talia Invierno And yet people don't change.
All the rest is ... Jul 15 2007, 06:00 AM
Fix-it Here's a good example of the oringinal thread ... Jul 21 2007, 04:04 AM
Ravor Well personally I tend to assume that the "Ki... Jul 21 2007, 07:56 AM
Talia Invierno You will have seen my link there. Human beings ar... Jul 21 2007, 09:22 AM
Kagetenshi QUOTE (Talia Invierno) The less we think one part ... Jul 21 2007, 01:36 PM
Talia Invierno I did. You're right. That's what comes o... Jul 21 2007, 02:47 PM
Ravor Yeah, I read the links, and even agree that sure, ... Jul 21 2007, 04:16 PM
Kagetenshi I can also toss my anecdote into the ring to say t... Jul 21 2007, 04:31 PM
Wounded Ronin QUOTE (Talia Invierno) You will have seen my link ... Jul 21 2007, 10:28 PM
Ravor Both and neither, all at the same time. Jul 21 2007, 10:46 PM
Talia Invierno Physical skills, or mental attitude toward killing... Jul 21 2007, 10:54 PM
Wounded Ronin QUOTE (Talia Invierno) Physical skills, or mental ... Jul 22 2007, 01:31 AM
Critias I'd say it has less to do with Nintendos and P... Jul 22 2007, 02:31 PM
Kagetenshi Well, I can see valid arguments against memorials ... Jul 22 2007, 02:48 PM
Ravor Or to put a more positive spin on the viewpoint Ka... Jul 22 2007, 03:00 PM
Kagetenshi There is a large set of possible self-consistent v... Jul 22 2007, 03:12 PM
Ravor Sure, however the problem that I've found with... Jul 22 2007, 03:34 PM
Kagetenshi I'm really not seeing your argument against se... Jul 22 2007, 03:56 PM
Critias Basically, I think all the "video games lead ... Jul 22 2007, 03:58 PM
Aku QUOTE (critias)it's trendy to blame something ... Jul 22 2007, 04:04 PM
bibliophile20 QUOTE (Aku) Would he be going after Steven Speilbe... Jul 22 2007, 04:47 PM
Kagetenshi I'd object to the simplistic portrayal of peop... Jul 22 2007, 04:58 PM
Aku i agree with Kage, i think. Everytime someone poin... Jul 22 2007, 05:01 PM
PBTHHHHT QUOTE (Critias) That "vampire cult" in F... Jul 22 2007, 05:03 PM
Ravor The short answer is to watch the "talking hea... Jul 22 2007, 05:08 PM
Aku ya know, i now life in the south, i wonder, what t... Jul 22 2007, 05:10 PM
Critias QUOTE (Kagetenshi) I'd object to the simplisti... Jul 22 2007, 05:11 PM
Fortune QUOTE (Aku) not to say i think we should attack ca... Jul 22 2007, 05:27 PM
Kagetenshi QUOTE (Ravor) The short answer is to watch the ... Jul 22 2007, 05:40 PM
PBTHHHHT QUOTE (Aku) (not to say i think we should attack c... Jul 22 2007, 08:07 PM
Kagetenshi Maine declared war on them, so I figure that's... Jul 22 2007, 08:13 PM
Sterling I think the OP is onto something, but it's not... Jul 22 2007, 08:46 PM
Kagetenshi The question is, is a RTT game like Myth more or l... Jul 22 2007, 08:58 PM
Critias Sometimes I take prisoners when the terrorists in ... Jul 22 2007, 09:01 PM
nezumi When I play RTSes I always try to minimize troop l... Jul 24 2007, 03:35 AM
hyzmarca QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) QUOTE (Talia Invierno ... Jul 24 2007, 04:30 PM
Talia Invierno Not touching the celebrating soldiers v. celebrati... Jul 24 2007, 08:31 PM
Kagetenshi QUOTE (Talia Invierno) I agree absolutely with the... Jul 24 2007, 09:49 PM
Talia Invierno I think that every action involves choice: even if... Jul 24 2007, 10:44 PM
Angelone The military now has the EST (Engagment skills tra... Jul 24 2007, 10:51 PM
Kagetenshi QUOTE (Talia Invierno) I think that every action i... Jul 24 2007, 11:14 PM
Wounded Ronin QUOTE (nezumi) When I play RTSes I always try to m... Jul 24 2007, 11:44 PM
Talia Invierno QUOTE (Kagetenshi)QUOTE (Talia Invierno)I think th... Jul 25 2007, 01:15 AM
Kagetenshi QUOTE (Talia Invierno) QUOTE Similarly, there is n... Jul 25 2007, 01:36 AM
Talia Invierno QUOTE (Kagetenshi)QUOTE (Talia Invierno)If you rea... Jul 25 2007, 02:13 AM
Kagetenshi QUOTE (Talia Invierno) And I ask: what makes ... Jul 25 2007, 02:47 AM
Talia Invierno QUOTE QUOTE (Talia Invierno)Choice is one of the g... Jul 25 2007, 03:42 AM
Kagetenshi It's not actually as circular as it looks. I... Jul 25 2007, 04:08 AM
Talia Invierno I'm tired too, and I really don't yet know... Jul 25 2007, 05:00 AM
Crusher Bob It may philosophically negate human responsibility... Jul 25 2007, 08:46 AM
Kagetenshi QUOTE (Talia Invierno) I'm tired too, and I re... Jul 25 2007, 10:57 AM
mfb discussing absolute determinism seems moot, to me.... Jul 25 2007, 12:00 PM
Kagetenshi Right. I covered that earlier. However, absolute d... Jul 25 2007, 12:23 PM
Critias I think that it is unreasonable to say "{set ... Jul 25 2007, 12:48 PM
Kagetenshi Well, there's a reason I said {person in a giv... Jul 25 2007, 01:25 PM
mfb yeah, if a given input only forces a small subset ... Jul 25 2007, 01:29 PM
Talia Invierno QUOTE (Kagetenshi)QUOTE (Talia Invierno)I'm ti... Jul 25 2007, 01:52 PM
Kagetenshi QUOTE (mfb)yeah, if a given input only forces a sm... Jul 25 2007, 01:53 PM
Talia Invierno ... one more.
One of the possible counters to det... Jul 25 2007, 02:01 PM
Kagetenshi I'm really not sure what you mean--if you mean... Jul 25 2007, 02:04 PM
hyzmarca QUOTE (mfb) discussing absolute determinism seems ... Jul 25 2007, 05:19 PM
mfb the discussion is still moot, even if you assume i... Jul 25 2007, 07:59 PM
Kagetenshi Absolute determinism doesn't mean you can... Jul 25 2007, 08:07 PM
the_dunner Interesting discussion aside, this no longer has a... Jul 25 2007, 09:39 PM
Talia Invierno [not worth it] Aug 2 2007, 03:58 AM
Kagetenshi PMs?
~J Aug 2 2007, 10:52 AM![]() ![]() |
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