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> Essence Holes, Bioware vs. Cyberware
Ol' Scratch
post Jul 29 2007, 04:53 AM
Post #1


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I noticed something odd in the rules this evening, was hoping to find some clarification.

Essence loss is split between bioware and cyberware; both are tracked seperately, and the whole subtracts from the character's actual Essence score. The reason they're tracked seperately is because the one that's smaller is halved for purposes of that final subtraction. So, what happens if down the line those numbers flip-flop?

Say you start with 1.0 points of bioware and 2.0 points of cyberware. After the game begins, you install a few pieces of bioware and now have 3.0 points of Bioware and 2.0 points of cyberware.

Using that example, does the new bioware have its Essence loss cut in half to maintain the original values? Do you suddenly have an Essence Hole in the cyberware departartment since it's now cut in half (becoming 1.0 of implants filling the original 2.0 hole)? Something else entirely?

In other words, is your Essence now 2.5 (cyberware -2.0 and bioware -1.5), 2.0 (cyberware -1.0 and bioware -3.0), or 1.0 (cyberware -2.0 with a 1.0 hole and bioware -3.0)?
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Posts in this topic
- Doctor Funkenstein   Essence Holes   Jul 29 2007, 04:53 AM
- - Da9iel   I'd always assumed that any "Essence hole...   Jul 29 2007, 05:30 AM
- - Dancer   I just figure that removal of 'ware removes it...   Jul 29 2007, 05:46 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   I believe it's Augmentation that discusses the...   Jul 29 2007, 06:08 AM
- - Wakshaani   Well, if it was .9 Bio and 1.1 Cyber, generating 1...   Jul 29 2007, 06:35 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   QUOTE (Wakshaani) Don't overthink; it falls ap...   Jul 29 2007, 06:36 AM
- - Ravor   You know, I think you may be overthinking things h...   Jul 29 2007, 06:37 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   While I understand the KISS principle you guys are...   Jul 29 2007, 06:40 AM
- - Ravor   I don't think you need to resolve anything bec...   Jul 29 2007, 06:44 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Whichever book mentioned it (pretty sure it was Au...   Jul 29 2007, 06:45 AM
- - Ravor   Hmm, after searching through AUG and having found ...   Jul 29 2007, 06:52 AM
- - l33tpenguin   I thought the hole was only applicable at characte...   Jul 29 2007, 06:56 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   While the new rules on the subject allow more inte...   Jul 29 2007, 07:06 AM
- - Ravor   Well I figured that from an IC perspective it wasn...   Jul 29 2007, 07:14 AM
- - FrankTrollman   Honestly I never wrote a distinction between Cyber...   Jul 29 2007, 07:34 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Thanks a lot and really glad to hear that. I...   Jul 29 2007, 07:37 AM
- - Ranneko   I would expect that the values of the holes flip-f...   Jul 29 2007, 08:05 AM
- - Ravor   Ok, but that would require a hell of alot of recor...   Jul 29 2007, 08:16 AM
- - FrankTrollman   It's actually worse than that. Since as writte...   Jul 29 2007, 08:23 AM
- - Ranneko   So if you have a single essence hole system and yo...   Jul 29 2007, 09:08 AM
- - apple   QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Jul 29 2007, 02:34 AM)...   Jul 29 2007, 10:42 AM
- - Synner   The Essence hole decision was made after various d...   Jul 29 2007, 11:44 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   I think you're missing the big point here, Syn...   Jul 29 2007, 11:54 AM
- - Ranneko   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Jul 29 2007, 03:5...   Jul 29 2007, 12:14 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   It simply contradicts the basic rules: Bob has 3 ...   Jul 29 2007, 12:16 PM
- - apple   QUOTE (Synner) The Essence hole decision was made ...   Jul 29 2007, 12:18 PM
- - Ophis   This seems to be more proof on how bad the build f...   Jul 29 2007, 12:21 PM
- - Synner   Jackknife Sue has 2.4 Essence lost to bioware and ...   Jul 29 2007, 12:28 PM
- - apple   QUOTE (Ophis) This seems to be more proof on how b...   Jul 29 2007, 12:28 PM
- - apple   QUOTE (Synner @ Jul 29 2007, 07:28 AM) The do...   Jul 29 2007, 12:39 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Synner)The downside of the system is that i...   Jul 29 2007, 12:46 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) Augmention: He now has ...   Jul 29 2007, 12:54 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Synner @ Jul 29 2007, 02:54 PM) Under ...   Jul 29 2007, 01:02 PM
- - apple   QUOTE (Synner @ Jul 29 2007, 07:54 AM) Apple...   Jul 29 2007, 01:04 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Here's how the loophole works. At character c...   Jul 29 2007, 01:09 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE 1) So you are not taking the actual essence ...   Jul 29 2007, 01:10 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Synner) Enough problems cropped up with the...   Jul 29 2007, 01:14 PM
- - apple   QUOTE (Synner @ Jul 29 2007, 08:10 AM) and ha...   Jul 29 2007, 01:21 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jul 29 2007, 01:1...   Jul 29 2007, 01:31 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Out of all your posts, I still don't see how a...   Jul 29 2007, 01:46 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Synner)Ranneko actually pointed out the mos...   Jul 29 2007, 01:52 PM
- - pbangarth   It makes perfect sense that shifting technical mod...   Jul 29 2007, 02:37 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Jul 29 2007, 01:4...   Jul 29 2007, 02:51 PM
- - Ranneko   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) Here's how the loop...   Jul 29 2007, 02:54 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   You've made it far more complicated than it ne...   Jul 29 2007, 02:56 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Synner @ Jul 29 2007, 04:51 PM) QUOTE ...   Jul 29 2007, 02:57 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   QUOTE (Ranneko) Sorry, not seeing the issue here. ...   Jul 29 2007, 02:59 PM
- - Ranneko   No, that isn't the case. Because that is not ...   Jul 29 2007, 03:05 PM
- - Synner   If it helps, and judging by peoples' reactions...   Jul 29 2007, 03:16 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   People are concerned more by the excessive and com...   Jul 29 2007, 03:20 PM
- - FrankTrollman   The Bio-hole and Cyber-hole system slapped in at t...   Jul 29 2007, 03:21 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Synner) If it helps, and judging by peoples...   Jul 29 2007, 03:26 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Frank)The Bio-hole and Cyber-hole system sl...   Jul 29 2007, 03:39 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Again, we repeat: What loopholes and bookkeeping ...   Jul 29 2007, 04:02 PM
- - Synner   I've paraphrased one of the playtest reports i...   Jul 29 2007, 04:05 PM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE You are mistaken and have misunderstood the ...   Jul 29 2007, 04:06 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Jul 29 2007, 04:06 PM)...   Jul 29 2007, 04:17 PM
- - Whipstitch   Ugh, I gotta stop checking up on this thread. It...   Jul 29 2007, 05:49 PM
- - Ranneko   The only point at which mundans are really committ...   Jul 29 2007, 09:10 PM
- - mfb   this is retarded. if bioware and cyberware both de...   Jul 29 2007, 09:22 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (mfb @ Jul 29 2007, 09:22 PM) having fi...   Jul 29 2007, 09:44 PM
- - mfb   there are five. your current essence, the amount o...   Jul 29 2007, 09:52 PM
- - Synner   I stand corrected. Under that logic though the sin...   Jul 29 2007, 09:55 PM
- - mfb   yeah, but withe the four-stats approach, there...   Jul 29 2007, 10:00 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   You can do that, if you wish so. But you don't...   Jul 29 2007, 10:01 PM
- - mfb   that sorta cuts down on complexity, if your only c...   Jul 29 2007, 10:13 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   As I said - you have to do that anyway once Cyber ...   Jul 29 2007, 10:19 PM
- - mfb   no you don't. you just add up the cyber and bi...   Jul 29 2007, 10:23 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   ..perhaps the fact that this is exactly what I sai...   Jul 29 2007, 10:28 PM
- - FrankTrollman   We naturally are forced to use additional sub-tota...   Jul 29 2007, 10:28 PM
- - mfb   you know, while we're at it, where are the rul...   Jul 29 2007, 10:33 PM
- - Ravor   Sure we have, we've been told that some facele...   Jul 29 2007, 10:34 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   In which case your version would miss 'Your li...   Jul 29 2007, 10:35 PM
- - Ravor   I for one consider that a good thing.   Jul 29 2007, 10:37 PM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) In which case your vers...   Jul 29 2007, 10:42 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   ..uh, the Essence sucked from a bloodspirit will b...   Jul 29 2007, 10:48 PM
- - Ravor   Only now it can through genetech...   Jul 29 2007, 10:48 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (FrankTrollman) However, Synner has come out...   Jul 30 2007, 01:37 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   So, the only reason Bioindex was re-introduced is ...   Jul 30 2007, 01:47 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Here's all it needs to be in retardedly simpli...   Jul 30 2007, 01:53 AM
- - Synner   And with that I'm going to remove myself from ...   Jul 30 2007, 02:07 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   I was just trying to say that I don't know who...   Jul 30 2007, 02:25 AM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE (Synner)When something new is implanted you ...   Jul 30 2007, 02:42 AM
- - Synner   QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Jul 30 2007, 02:42 AM)...   Jul 30 2007, 08:28 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)So, the only reason Bioi...   Jul 30 2007, 10:14 AM
- - Mr. Unpronounceable   sorry, but this still looks like using differentia...   Jul 30 2007, 07:54 PM
- - Catharz Godfoot   Not that this is used in the BBB or Augmentation, ...   Jul 30 2007, 09:18 PM
- - PlatonicPimp   The best shadowrunner ever was the chromed account...   Jul 30 2007, 11:58 PM
- - Mr. Unpronounceable   Thinking about it some more... it's even wors...   Jul 31 2007, 04:29 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Both holes are 1 point. It's not a 'Essen...   Jul 31 2007, 04:32 PM
- - Ravor   Are you sure, although I don't like the new ru...   Jul 31 2007, 04:43 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   The 0,5 + 1 part comes after that.   Jul 31 2007, 04:49 PM
- - Dashifen   I'm with Rotbart on this one; the way I read i...   Jul 31 2007, 04:56 PM
- - Ravor   *Shrugs* If that is the case then the new ruling i...   Jul 31 2007, 05:26 PM
- - hyzmarca   The result is that you essentially have three esse...   Jul 31 2007, 05:39 PM
- - Mr. Unpronounceable   Hmm..I guess... But I still don't like the fa...   Jul 31 2007, 06:26 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   The sucker-inflicted Essence Hole can be recovered...   Jul 31 2007, 06:27 PM
- - hyzmarca   The new way requires more recordskeeping but the B...   Jul 31 2007, 06:30 PM
- - Ravor   However Cellular Repair is much like the fabled ...   Jul 31 2007, 06:32 PM
- - mfb   having played with the uber mage, and as i'm c...   Jul 31 2007, 06:56 PM
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