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> The Limits of Movement, Planck, Einstein, and Howling Coyote
FrankTrollman
post Aug 14 2007, 02:50 AM
Post #1


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OK, as we know the Movement power allows a critter to increase or decrease a target's apparent speed by a multiple (or divisor) of the critter's Magic attribute. Once the power has been turned on, visual contact need not be maintained (which is great news fort the rest of the thought experiments). While it is maintained the additional speed does not cause untoward effects to the target other than getting to its destination sooner or later - a person's limbs don't get torn off from th sudden rush of speed, a car doesn't burn through fuel at some horrendous rate, and a bullet does not hit its target any harder (just sooner).

And that's great for velocities much greater than zero and much smaller than the speed of light. But let's consider the fact that physics is constrained by a minimum speed and a maximum speed. Magic is, as far as I know not so constrained. Nevertheless, I am forced to ask what precisely happens when you make such an attempt?

Let's say that you have something that's moving extraordinarily fast. Say, half the speed of light. Now, with a mere Force 3 Earth Spirit you can use Movement to about 50% more than the speed of light. Or can you? At the speeds that Shadowrun normally is played at, special relativity isn't called for at all. Instead, we consider velocities to simply add like they do in a classical Newtonian world. But at very high speeds, that's an invalid assumption (at least for non-magical movement). The particle accelerated to three times its velocity would have a speed well less than the speed of light.

So that brings us to the question:
  • When Movement doubles, triples, or dodecuples a target's speed, is that merely creating a time dilation sufficient to get it to its destination in a time consistent with having that many times the energy, or is it creating a physics-defying time dilation sufficient to get the target to its destination in a fraction of the time, speed of light be damned?

Of course we likewise have problems at the low end as well. If an object is already as close to absolute zero as it is possible to be, can you use Movement to make its effective speed even less? What happens when those precious Planck Times click by and the object hasn't gotten to the next interval of Planck Space?

-Frank
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Posts in this topic
- FrankTrollman   The Limits of Movement   Aug 14 2007, 02:50 AM
- - Thomas   QUOTE (FrankTrollman) [...] Of course we likewise ...   Aug 14 2007, 03:00 AM
- - odinson   It's magic. It breaks the laws of physics. You...   Aug 14 2007, 03:42 AM
- - mfb   well, you kinda do have to worry about it when it ...   Aug 14 2007, 04:16 AM
- - Solomon Greene   Somewhere, there's a term paper for MMIT&T...   Aug 14 2007, 04:27 AM
- - hyzmarca   I believe that this question can only be solved by...   Aug 14 2007, 04:58 AM
- - Draconis   uh.......cheeseburger?   Aug 14 2007, 05:48 AM
- - odinson   QUOTE (Draconis) uh.......cheeseburger? In hal...   Aug 14 2007, 06:22 AM
- - virgileso   From what I'm aware, the slowing down aspect o...   Aug 14 2007, 06:45 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Only to an observer external to the system. Planc...   Aug 14 2007, 06:49 AM
- - Red   Shadowrun, if you draw from the Earthdawn universe...   Aug 14 2007, 11:30 AM
- - Blade   In France, we've got an acronym for such cases...   Aug 14 2007, 12:13 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   QUOTE (Blade @ Aug 14 2007, 06:13 AM) In Fran...   Aug 14 2007, 01:44 PM
- - Wakshaani   Don't forget that lightspeed isn't an abso...   Aug 14 2007, 02:12 PM
- - DireRadiant   Mass X Velocity we learned in 1st or second grade,...   Aug 14 2007, 02:14 PM
- - Aaron   It's easy enough. Just stop thinking of the ad...   Aug 14 2007, 02:51 PM
- - Aaron   QUOTE (Solomon Greene)Somewhere, there's a ter...   Aug 14 2007, 03:06 PM
- - PlatonicPimp   Except that by observation of the movement power, ...   Aug 14 2007, 03:59 PM
- - hyzmarca   This, of course, brings up the complete and total ...   Aug 14 2007, 04:21 PM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) Except that by observation of...   Aug 14 2007, 04:28 PM
- - Big D   I. Love. This. Thread.   Aug 14 2007, 05:07 PM
- - mfb   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) QUOTE (Blade @ Aug...   Aug 14 2007, 05:12 PM
- - Aaron   QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) Except that by observation of...   Aug 14 2007, 05:32 PM
- - neko128   QUOTE (Blade) I mean, magic can make food appear: ...   Aug 14 2007, 05:49 PM
- - eidolon   You won't see me doing it. That's as plau...   Aug 14 2007, 06:03 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   Very cool thread. 1) I want to agree with Frank re...   Aug 14 2007, 06:15 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   QUOTE (neko128) Some physicists are proponents of ...   Aug 14 2007, 06:20 PM
- - hyzmarca   I'm going to tear your arguement appart and I ...   Aug 14 2007, 06:21 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   QUOTE (hyzmarca) I'm going to tear your arguem...   Aug 14 2007, 06:32 PM
- - Slash_Thompson   QUOTE (Wakshaani)Plus, we found Tachyons, which go...   Aug 14 2007, 06:43 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   QUOTE (mfb) dude. read the fucking thread. Sor...   Aug 14 2007, 06:44 PM
- - KarmaInferno   QUOTE (neko128)So when magic "creates" t...   Aug 14 2007, 06:46 PM
- - Adarael   QUOTE A simple example: Assume that there are an i...   Aug 14 2007, 06:50 PM
- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Aug 14 20...   Aug 14 2007, 06:54 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   QUOTE (Adarael) Just because there are an infinite...   Aug 14 2007, 06:59 PM
- - neko128   QUOTE (KarmaInferno) QUOTE (neko128)So when magic ...   Aug 14 2007, 07:01 PM
- - neko128   QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) QUOTE (Adarael @ Aug 14 200...   Aug 14 2007, 07:06 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)Regarding Plank length.  Isn...   Aug 14 2007, 07:06 PM
- - PlatonicPimp   Right, see, in an infinite number of universes, ev...   Aug 14 2007, 07:07 PM
- - Adarael   QUOTE Look, there are different levels of infinity...   Aug 14 2007, 07:16 PM
- - Big D   With magic, you can make the coin land on edge. E...   Aug 14 2007, 07:20 PM
- - Kyoto Kid   ...now where did I put that Infinite Improbability...   Aug 14 2007, 08:12 PM
- - virgileso   For the people advocating rounding off when you tr...   Aug 14 2007, 08:28 PM
- - hyzmarca   I think that we're missing something in the ju...   Aug 14 2007, 08:34 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   QUOTE (Adarael) QUOTE Look, there are different le...   Aug 14 2007, 08:36 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   QUOTE (hyzmarca) I think that we're missing so...   Aug 14 2007, 08:39 PM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) Right, see, in an infinite nu...   Aug 14 2007, 08:43 PM
- - DireRadiant   The infinite argument shall never end.... I don...   Aug 14 2007, 08:47 PM
- - Big D   Spirits get very handwavy. Are they sentient? I ...   Aug 14 2007, 08:47 PM
- - Kyoto Kid   QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)One side says I'm placing unn...   Aug 14 2007, 08:51 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) ...then again, even a finite num...   Aug 14 2007, 08:54 PM
- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)One side says I...   Aug 14 2007, 09:01 PM
- - Kyoto Kid   ...whew! Thanks for the clarification. Though...   Aug 14 2007, 09:22 PM
- - Adarael   QUOTE That something is that the universe is not r...   Aug 14 2007, 09:23 PM
- - Fortune   My head hurts!   Aug 14 2007, 09:38 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (hyzmarca)Even quantum uncertainty does not ...   Aug 14 2007, 09:48 PM
- - Adarael   On a more mundane note, I would personally rule th...   Aug 14 2007, 10:06 PM
- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) QUOTE (hyzmarca)Even qu...   Aug 14 2007, 11:03 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   It is described by deterministic theories... that ...   Aug 14 2007, 11:20 PM
- - Big D   QUOTE I wouldn't let magic let your transmit ...   Aug 15 2007, 03:57 AM
- - Adarael   I have yet to see any evidence that spirit shortcu...   Aug 15 2007, 06:12 AM
- - mfb   why in the world would the speed of light apply to...   Aug 15 2007, 07:06 AM
- - Adarael   It's not the astral plane that concerns me, it...   Aug 15 2007, 07:21 AM
- - Big D   Telepathy is instantaneous. There's no delay ...   Aug 15 2007, 07:54 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Big D) Oh, and don't forget that here a...   Aug 15 2007, 08:07 AM
- - virgileso   Actually, quantum entanglement can't transmit ...   Aug 15 2007, 09:54 AM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE (virgileso) Actually, quantum entanglement c...   Aug 15 2007, 02:03 PM
- - virgileso   The problem with that is that you can't tell i...   Aug 15 2007, 02:35 PM
- - Adarael   Not to extend the discussion into physics, but Vir...   Aug 15 2007, 05:43 PM
- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Aug 14 2007, 06:2...   Aug 15 2007, 09:28 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (hyzmarca) If errors did accumulate, then th...   Aug 15 2007, 11:42 PM
- - mfb   QUOTE (Adareal)It's not the astral plane that ...   Aug 16 2007, 01:34 AM


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