 LOL @ SSI D&D roll playing example in manual |
 Oct 2 2007, 04:02 AM
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Great Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383  |
As many of you probably know SSI had made a lot of D&D computer games maybe 10-15 years ago. They had storylines, "journal entries" (flavor text in the manual which the game referred to), NPCs, but their heart and soul was really a D&D combat simulator. All sorts of D&D rules were implemented and if your party was ever wiped out or half the party members died you were plain and simpled screwed. There was no benevolent DM intervention to "keep the story going". I've found a really old .txt version of the manual for one such game set in the Dragonlance setting and it's been entertaining me. They went and tried to implement various things that are grounded in rules but which are supposed to be in-character stuff (i.e. knights of the sword and knights of the rose have to tithe the vast majority of their take whenever they stop at an outpost, so I assume that they just automatically lose heaps of money whenever they go into town) and yet there's stuff in the manual they're telling you to do which is so munchy and so not believable in terms of role playing.
Bolds mine, obviously. I like how in the manual they flat out tell you that mixed classes are usually better than single classes instead of even pretending that someone might consider making, say, a straight up fighter because that is easier to imagine someone pursuing than a triple multiclass. I cannot even begin to wrap my mind around a CLERIC/FIGHTER/MAGE without completely shifting out of believable characterization and totally into straight up number crunching. Consider the following points: 1.) Clerics are devoted to religious belief and faith and as part of this faith in D&D land they aren't allowed to use edged weapons. BUT apparently there's no problem with being both a cleric and a fighter who uses edged weapons. Why is that "okay" but it's not possible for a single-class cleric to grab a steak knife and stab someone in self-defense during a tavern assault? 2.) Mages cannot wear armor in D&D land. If a mage expects that he's going to be jumped coming around a corner by Jason from Friday the 13th he can't put on a chain mail shirt under his robes. BUT he can as long as he claims he has at least 1 level in Fighter. How can we even begin to justify such a character background in our imaginations? "Well, uh, yeah...Juggly the CLERIC/FIGHTER/MAGE started out studying as a mage. As soon as he became a level 1 mage some red headed bully beat the crap out of him after absorbing Juggly's Magic Missile Spell which rolled poorly and only did 2 points of damage. As a reaction to this Juggly went and trained as a fighter for 1 level. But after he accidentally killed someone in fighter training school he found religion and became a cleric. But he can still bust out the edged weapons when he needs to. Or cast Magic Missile. While wearing armor. And of course he has no problem finding training in clericness, fighterness, or mageness whenever he needs it. Because he's just that popular with so many people." If one triple-classed character can do all sorts of things which are forbidden to other character classes such as actually wear armor it almost makes the other characters look mentally handicapped. Perhaps the mage, should he attempt to put on armor, immediately lets out a high-pitched whiney noise and falls to the ground with a clatter completely unable to move or gesticulate. Perhaps if you wish to capture an enemy mage you just need to hold him down and pull some armor on him to render him totally helpless. If I were writing the rules, I'd put a lot of restrictions on a multi-class character. In the first place, if the system allowed for a certain number of maximum levels (eg. level 20, or level 36) I would make the total of all your levels count towards the maximum number of levels. So if 36 were our max the best that a triple class character could be in one area would be level 34 and two level 1 classes, or level 12 in three areas if the levels were spread out evenly. I really don't feel like a triple class character should be "better" than a specialist especially if he's "better" just because he breaks the rules better. A generalist should be a bit more versatile but should always suck in a specific area compared to a specialist. If a boxer, a specialist, fought in a mixed martial arts venue without modifying his training regime, he would not do well compared to people who train for the mixed martial arts venue. However, someone who trains for mixed martial arts who enters a straight up boxing venue will, all other things being equaled, be out-boxed by the guy who has specialized in boxing his whole life. Just look at the boxing match Leila Ali versus Erin Toughill from a while back. Even though Toughill was a seasoned MMA competitor Leila Ali completely dominated her in the boxing ring because Ali was more appropriately specialized. The other thing I would do is enforce class restrictions while doing class activities. So if you're a FIGHTER/CLERIC/MAGE, I'd have the following restrictions just in the interest of not completely contradicting previous class rules from before the days of multiclassing: 1.) You cannot cast magic if you're wearing any armor. If you're wearing plate mail and suddenly really feel the need to Fireball you have to rip off your armor in order to do so. 2.) Because clerical spells and abilities essentially come from faith you cannot use any of your cleric abilities (spells or Turn Undead) if you are using edged weapons. You can use your fighter stats with blunt weapons but your cleric spells in memory immediately vanish if you use an edged weapon and you cannot regain your lost cleric abilities until you've done proper atonement for having used edged weapons. The atonement would have to be pretty serious considering that clerics aren't even supposed to use edged weapons when their lives are threatened. I think that rules like that would go a long way towards having multiclassed characters be a true "jack of all trades but master of none" instead of being stupidly all powerful. Multi classing just makes my head explode. I'll bet it was created by some whiny player who didn't understand why his mage wasn't allowed to pick up a sword and practice fencing on the weekend and eventually mushroomed into some gigantic game-balance-destroying suspension-of-disbelief-eating monstrosity. |
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Posts in this topic
Wounded Ronin LOL @ SSI D&D roll playing example in manual Oct 2 2007, 04:02 AM
Cthulhudreams In reality though being a fighter/mage/cleric is a... Oct 2 2007, 05:46 AM hyzmarca One of my favorite D&D games is Eye of the Beh... Oct 2 2007, 01:28 PM Aku hmm thats odd, its been a long time since i've... Oct 2 2007, 01:37 PM Wounded Ronin QUOTE (Cthulhudreams) In reality though being a fi... Oct 2 2007, 10:59 PM Cthulhudreams QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Oct 2 2007, 05:59 PM) ... Oct 3 2007, 03:52 AM Wounded Ronin That seems to be a very good explanation, Cthulu.
... Oct 3 2007, 09:10 PM mfb i dunno, i see a lot of good builds that have a lo... Oct 3 2007, 09:51 PM Critias Which is the core issue that's either good or ... Oct 4 2007, 03:57 AM Kagetenshi The best builds are second ninja-foo multiclasses ... Oct 4 2007, 04:22 PM Wounded Ronin QUOTE (Kagetenshi) The best builds are second ninj... Oct 4 2007, 09:35 PM darthmord WR, one thing you failed to mention in your OP is ... Oct 5 2007, 04:07 PM Wounded Ronin Thanks for the heads-up. Shoot man, it makes me w... Oct 5 2007, 10:00 PM Kagetenshi QUOTE (darthmord) That's what made a lot of di... Oct 9 2007, 07:47 PM Wounded Ronin QUOTE (Kagetenshi) QUOTE (darthmord @ Oct 5 2... Oct 9 2007, 11:26 PM Kagetenshi Eh, I can see that approach, but I think it makes ... Oct 10 2007, 01:05 AM
Sammiel I still own Strahd's Possession, Stone Prophet... Oct 11 2007, 12:52 PM  |
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