IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> Breaching vs. Cutting, Arsenal Explosives question
TheOneRonin
post May 27 2008, 10:11 PM
Post #1


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,109
Joined: 16-October 03
From: Raleigh, NC
Member No.: 5,729



Greetings all. I've been familiarizing myself with the advanced explosive rules in Arsenal, and I've run into an issue. First off, let me quote a few relevant pieces of text:

QUOTE (Arsenal @ pg 93)
Cutting requires far less explosives than breaching, but more preparation time.


Makes sense, but I can't get it to work out in practice.

Okay, lets say we are faced with a security door. That counts as Reinforced Material, so we have Structure Rating of 9, and an Armor Rating of 8.

Let's also say that we have a drone carrying 200 foam explosive canisters, each packed with 1 kilogram of Rating 4 foam explosive.


So if we decide to breach the door, lets figure out how much explosive it's going to take.

Arsenal gives us the following:

DV required = (Radius[m] x Structure Rating) + (Armor Rating ÷ 4)
Explosive weight = (DV ÷ DV Multiplier ÷ Explosives Rating)squared in kg

So to blow a 1 meter diameter hole, we need a DV of
(.5 * 9) + (8 / 4)
(4.5) + (2)
6.5 or 7 DV

Let's say we are just putting the explosives on the ground, so the Multiplier is x1.

The weight in kilograms is:
(7 / 1 / 4) squared kilograms
3 kilograms

So 3 kilos of rating 4 foam explosive will put a 1 meter diameter hole in our security door.

Good 'nuff.


So let's say instead of breaching it, we decide to try cutting it.

We are going to attempt to cut a 1 square meter hole out of the door.

We are still using rating 4 foam explosive, and we will shape it into four 1-meter lines.

The DV formula for cutting is: (sqrt of kilos/meter)*(Rating of explosives)
We also get 1 additional AP per net hit made on the demo extended test (assume no net hits, so no AP)

The door can buy 2 hits from it's armor, effectively giving it 11 damage boxes.

If we want to do 11 boxes of damage, we will need almost 9 KILOGRAMS PER ONE METER LINE!!!
DV = (sqrt 9)*(4)
DV = (3)*(4)
DV = 12

Holy shit. You need a grand total of 36 kilograms of the same explosive to cut a 1meter square hole out of that security door, whereas you only need 3 kilos to blow a 1meter diameter hole. WTF???

Please tell me my math is wrong...

[edit]
My math WAS wrong, so I fixed it. But all the correction did was change the required mass of the breaching charge from 5 kilos to 3, exacerbating the problem with the cutting charge calculation.
[/edit]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- TheOneRonin   Breaching vs. Cutting   May 27 2008, 10:11 PM
- - hyzmarca   You half a target's armor when the explosive i...   May 27 2008, 10:40 PM
|- - TheOneRonin   QUOTE (hyzmarca @ May 27 2008, 05:40 PM) ...   May 27 2008, 11:23 PM
|- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (TheOneRonin @ May 27 2008, 06:23 P...   May 27 2008, 11:25 PM
|- - TheOneRonin   QUOTE (hyzmarca @ May 27 2008, 06:25 PM) ...   May 27 2008, 11:53 PM
||- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (TheOneRonin @ May 27 2008, 07:53 P...   May 28 2008, 12:02 AM
||- - TheOneRonin   QUOTE (hyzmarca @ May 27 2008, 07:02 PM) ...   May 28 2008, 12:33 AM
|- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (hyzmarca @ May 27 2008, 04:25 PM) ...   May 28 2008, 01:58 AM
|- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 27 2008, 08:58...   May 28 2008, 04:07 AM
- - WearzManySkins   I agree with hyzmarca, the Arsenal explosive rules...   May 27 2008, 11:47 PM
- - hyzmarca   Its simple. For cutting when the explosive is plac...   May 28 2008, 01:04 AM
- - TheOneRonin   Yeah, that's sorta what I was trying to get at...   May 28 2008, 12:29 PM
- - The Jopp   Is it just me or is the entire amount of explosive...   May 28 2008, 02:16 PM
|- - TheOneRonin   QUOTE (The Jopp @ May 28 2008, 09:16 AM) ...   May 28 2008, 02:34 PM
- - Magus   Can you imagine the death and destruction you coul...   May 28 2008, 02:31 PM
- - hyzmarca   One issue is that, in real life, explosives obey t...   May 28 2008, 03:35 PM
- - Tunnel Rat   I can only hope that the rules for cutting with ex...   May 28 2008, 06:26 PM
|- - TheOneRonin   QUOTE (Tunnel Rat @ May 28 2008, 01:26 PM...   May 28 2008, 07:11 PM
- - TheOneRonin   So that's it? No one else has any more info a...   May 29 2008, 12:38 PM
- - Method   OneRonin: I reread the rules for breaching/cutting...   May 29 2008, 04:38 PM
|- - TheOneRonin   QUOTE (Method @ May 29 2008, 12:38 PM) On...   May 31 2008, 06:21 PM
- - Tunnel Rat   Even if you switch to the cutting charges, the pro...   May 29 2008, 06:31 PM
- - Earlydawn   So, is the consensus that cutting is meant to be a...   Jun 1 2008, 05:09 PM
|- - TheOneRonin   QUOTE (Earlydawn @ Jun 1 2008, 01:09 PM) ...   Jun 2 2008, 01:17 PM
- - kzt   There are two ways of using explosives to cut stee...   Jun 2 2008, 06:16 PM
- - Faelan   Or for instance in Arsenal we could use a shit loa...   Jun 2 2008, 09:44 PM
|- - WearzManySkins   QUOTE (Faelan @ Jun 2 2008, 04:44 PM) Or ...   Jun 2 2008, 11:49 PM
|- - WearzManySkins   QUOTE (Faelan @ Jun 2 2008, 04:44 PM) Or ...   Jun 3 2008, 01:13 AM
- - Adarael   QUOTE ...where as in real life it won't crack ...   Jun 2 2008, 09:50 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Adarael @ Jun 2 2008, 02:50 PM) Th...   Jun 2 2008, 11:13 PM
|- - WearzManySkins   QUOTE (kzt @ Jun 2 2008, 06:13 PM) That i...   Jun 2 2008, 11:54 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jun 2 2008, 04:54...   Jun 3 2008, 12:28 AM
- - Faelan   Before you go telling me I am wrong please try to ...   Jun 3 2008, 12:01 AM
- - Kyoto Kid   ...this is where i miss the old complementary know...   Jun 3 2008, 12:30 AM
- - WearzManySkins   Not Anfo but the Port Chicago blast sheared off a ...   Jun 3 2008, 12:40 AM
- - Faelan   Probably because the Port Chicago blast was the re...   Jun 3 2008, 01:04 AM
|- - WearzManySkins   QUOTE (Faelan @ Jun 2 2008, 08:04 PM) Pro...   Jun 3 2008, 01:15 AM
- - Faelan   Misunderstood what Ampo was probably because it is...   Jun 3 2008, 02:02 AM
- - WearzManySkins   "Look Seaman Recruit Nelson is the light on o...   Jun 3 2008, 02:25 AM
- - kzt   Typical concrete is about 3000 PSI strength in com...   Jun 3 2008, 04:21 PM
|- - kigmatzomat   QUOTE (kzt @ Jun 3 2008, 11:21 AM) Typica...   Jun 3 2008, 08:24 PM
|- - TheOneRonin   QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ Jun 3 2008, 03:24 PM...   Jun 4 2008, 08:20 PM
- - DeadLogic   As soon as I read about square roots, I decided to...   Jun 3 2008, 04:50 PM
|- - TheOneRonin   QUOTE (DeadLogic @ Jun 3 2008, 11:50 AM) ...   Jun 3 2008, 05:04 PM
- - Dumori   Yes a table for explosives would be a nice idea bu...   Jun 3 2008, 04:55 PM
- - Faelan   Mind sharing that excel sheet with the rest of us   Jun 3 2008, 05:22 PM
- - TheOneRonin   Sure. Gimme a place to host it and I'll put i...   Jun 3 2008, 06:05 PM
- - WearzManySkins   I too used a spreadsheet for use with the old ...   Jun 3 2008, 06:29 PM
- - kzt   One of the marks of someone who knows what they ar...   Jun 3 2008, 07:32 PM
- - Faelan   Especially when they like to wear wool and play wi...   Jun 3 2008, 07:35 PM
- - kigmatzomat   While I've read the Arsenal explosive rules I ...   Jun 4 2008, 09:16 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 13th January 2025 - 09:43 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.