May 31 2008, 05:02 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Shadow Cartographer ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
People may have noticed that I've been a little absent from Dumpshock for some months now. Basically, I've been working my socks off and there's been a big gaming hiatus in my life. But I intended to come back to RP'ing and I had in mind a change of pace, going back to some high fantasy. That coincided with a certain other game coming out in a new edition so I'm afraid I took a look. It was the game, after all, that started me off in RPGs when I was just an odd little immigrant kid trying to make friends.
Bad. Or at least critically flawed. I guess the game was always an unrealistic and rather simplistic game, but I ran a pretty atmospheric campaign once, despite that. The new system has gutted itself of what shreds of believability and internal consistency it possessed, however. I will say that they've produced what looks like a very fun and fast paced small scale fantasy battle game. But I've seen enough elements of the new system now that set themselves against role-playing to believe that it would take significant effort to immerse yourself in a game in any character sense. Why am I posting this here on Dumpshock? I don't know - just that I've hung out here a lot over the past year or so and want to share what I'm thinking with my friends. And because I think my distaste for that new edition is partly a result of having been spoilt by Shadowrun. The elegance of Shadowrun 4th vs. The Other Game 4th, is marked. SR4 compares favourably in terms of the Simplicity for Gain ratio of the rules. But more than this, the difference in flexibility and fine detail that the systems are capable of is staggering - especially when you consider page counts. The designers of Shadowrun are to be commended (so I'm commending them) for such a well put together and balanced system. Reading through the WotC forums, is like running through a ghetto of shit-flinging monkeys. Dumpshock feels like sitting quietly in a holy place after visiting there. One of the many dogmas in that place is a set of rules doesn't stop you role-playing if you want to. I find that not to be the case. The system of that Other Game actively hinders immersion in the world through character abilities that have no internal justification but only their coolness from a game-play angle; and also through it's active forbidding of realistic actions to preserve its abstract nature. Conversely, the Shadowrun rules seem to gently encourage role-playing through their fine granularity. And it's no more complicated to learn (imo). I guess I wanted to say that I'm impressed with SR4. That despite my taste for occasional world saving, lich-battling valour, the latest serving of TOG looks like it'll cause some severe after-effects, compared to the nutritious soy of SR. I now know what sort of cancer TOG causes - bowel. If you want a slick miniatures game it looks good, but it's not much more than that, imo. If I could work out how to make mundanes balanced with the magic users without automatic weapons, I'd seriously contemplate running a fantasy game using the SR4 system. So there you have it people. My thirst for adventure has been quenched, I have learnt my lesson and come back to where the Ex-Ex rounds might kill your PC, but at least the player wont be harmed. There be dragons, chummers. Khadim. |
|
|
|
knasser Well if it didn't cause cancer before... May 31 2008, 05:02 PM
Nigel I need to know one thing, that can be answered in ... May 31 2008, 05:23 PM
FrankTrollman QUOTE (Nigel @ May 31 2008, 12:23 PM) I n... May 31 2008, 05:40 PM
Stahlseele that other game? only other 4th i am aware of migh... May 31 2008, 05:34 PM
Faelan Have not gotten it yet, and will reserve final jud... May 31 2008, 05:45 PM
JeffSz A really great fantasy RPG if you like the undead ... May 31 2008, 06:06 PM
Particle_Beam Seeing as this topic which is discussing about D... May 31 2008, 06:14 PM
hyzmarca I am very much of the opinion that the best D... May 31 2008, 06:15 PM
fistandantilus4.0 It's connected, but as the focus is primarily ... May 31 2008, 06:24 PM
knasser I'm pretty sure that the "blue book... May 31 2008, 06:36 PM
Aaron The blue box was Expert and the red box was Basic.... May 31 2008, 07:10 PM
knasser QUOTE (Aaron @ May 31 2008, 08:10 PM) The... May 31 2008, 10:47 PM
Muspellsheimr QUOTE (knasser @ May 31 2008, 04:47 PM) @... Jun 1 2008, 07:31 AM
Muspellsheimr I, even still, occasionally play That Other Game, ... May 31 2008, 07:34 PM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 31 2008, 09:34... May 31 2008, 08:01 PM
Dumori The more I hear about the 4th e Of D&D the mor... May 31 2008, 10:59 PM
Zombayz 4th ed DnD is a tremendous faliure. Where classes ... Jun 1 2008, 12:05 AM
Aaron But Carcinogen 4e does have classes. Three of them... Jun 1 2008, 01:14 AM
Larme The one thing I really can't reconcile is how ... Jun 1 2008, 01:56 AM
Cain QUOTE Change the system, keep the setting, and you... Jun 1 2008, 05:04 AM
Larme Feeling different is not the same as truly being d... Jun 1 2008, 05:31 AM
FrankTrollman QUOTE (Larme @ Jun 1 2008, 12:31 AM) Feel... Jun 1 2008, 08:25 AM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Larme @ Jun 1 2008, 07:31 AM) Feel... Jun 1 2008, 08:45 AM
knasser It's my contention that the structure of the r... Jun 1 2008, 10:37 AM
Larme That does sound pretty disturbing... But I can... Jun 1 2008, 03:57 PM
Particle_Beam QUOTE (Larme @ Jun 1 2008, 05:57 PM) It r... Jun 1 2008, 05:20 PM

Larme QUOTE (Particle_Beam @ Jun 1 2008, 01:20 ... Jun 1 2008, 07:20 PM
Aaron QUOTE (Larme @ Jun 1 2008, 09:57 AM) Thou... Jun 1 2008, 05:48 PM
FrankTrollman QUOTE (Larme @ Jun 1 2008, 10:57 AM) Thou... Jun 1 2008, 07:38 PM
fistandantilus4.0 Having not read the game it's self, only the r... Jun 1 2008, 05:44 PM
knasser QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0 @ Jun 1 2008, 06... Jun 1 2008, 08:03 PM
Particle_Beam What progression? Level 30 is the end, no further ... Jun 1 2008, 06:26 PM
nezumi QUOTE (Particle_Beam @ Jun 1 2008, 02:26 ... Jun 2 2008, 02:50 PM
Particle_Beam Yes, damn those epic-level solo monsters who need ... Jun 1 2008, 07:54 PM
FrankTrollman QUOTE (Particle_Beam @ Jun 1 2008, 02:54 ... Jun 1 2008, 08:21 PM
Larme Turns out I have some friends who actually want to... Jun 2 2008, 12:31 AM
FrankTrollman First off: almost none of the abilities make any d... Jun 2 2008, 05:46 AM
Particle_Beam Nah, it's still there. Many of the enchanted w... Jun 2 2008, 01:49 AM
Fuchs I reserve judgement until I actually read the rule... Jun 2 2008, 08:08 AM
Malicant It's awesome. Frank is just naysaying. Jun 2 2008, 09:28 AM
Particle_Beam Of course cybered characters can never outpace mag... Jun 2 2008, 03:08 PM
nezumi I can't comment on SR4, however with SR3, the ... Jun 2 2008, 03:51 PM
Particle_Beam Look, Shadowrun and D&D will always suffer fro... Jun 2 2008, 04:20 PM
FrankTrollman QUOTE (Nezumi)A D&D game with only 1 splatbook... Jun 2 2008, 04:32 PM
Malicant QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Jun 2 2008, 06:32 ... Jun 2 2008, 06:15 PM
Drogos OMFG, they took a MMORPG and made a PnP game out o... Jun 2 2008, 04:59 PM
Particle_Beam Nah, D&D 4th edition is more like Magic The Ga... Jun 2 2008, 05:25 PM
Drogos QUOTE (Particle_Beam @ Jun 2 2008, 12:25 ... Jun 2 2008, 06:40 PM
darthmord I do have to question the damage output example gi... Jun 2 2008, 05:52 PM
FrankTrollman Important note: Mike Mearls isn't a lead desig... Jun 2 2008, 06:07 PM
Particle_Beam D&D rules for social interaction? Like, you kn... Jun 2 2008, 11:22 PM
Larme @Drogos: Assume makes an ass out of u and me. Bef... Jun 3 2008, 01:30 AM
Cantankerous Having tried KoSF I can tell you, this does NOT fe... Jun 3 2008, 05:25 AM
Fuchs Bought adventures rarely portray social interactio... Jun 3 2008, 06:58 AM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jun 3 2008, 08:58 AM) Boug... Jun 3 2008, 08:43 AM
Particle_Beam Nah, in fictional fantasy literature, death of fan... Jun 3 2008, 09:21 AM
Cantankerous D&D 3.5 had holes in it, every iteration of D... Jun 3 2008, 10:04 AM
Fuchs I think the "fight takes 1,5 rounds, and afte... Jun 3 2008, 10:22 AM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jun 3 2008, 12:22 PM) I th... Jun 3 2008, 11:12 AM
Drogos Well, I guess they did include rules for it. Soun... Jun 3 2008, 10:46 AM
Fuchs Uh... did you ever play high-level 3.5? With all t... Jun 3 2008, 11:23 AM
Malicant Oh boy, I don't think you will be able to expl... Jun 3 2008, 11:48 AM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Malicant @ Jun 3 2008, 01:48 PM) O... Jun 3 2008, 02:52 PM
Fuchs QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Jun 3 2008, 04:52 P... Jun 3 2008, 03:09 PM

Cantankerous QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jun 3 2008, 05:09 PM) You... Jun 3 2008, 03:19 PM
Critias QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Jun 3 2008, 09:52 A... Jun 3 2008, 04:02 PM
Cantankerous QUOTE Uh... did you ever play high-level 3.5? With... Jun 3 2008, 11:59 AM
Fuchs Nothing prevents you from assuming that there are ... Jun 3 2008, 12:15 PM
Critias I have trouble imagining a D&D 3.0 or 3.5 game... Jun 3 2008, 12:21 PM
Larme Let's not argue what every fantasy book ever w... Jun 3 2008, 01:36 PM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Larme @ Jun 3 2008, 03:36 PM) Let... Jun 3 2008, 03:08 PM
Fuchs QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Jun 3 2008, 05:08 P... Jun 3 2008, 03:10 PM

Cantankerous QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jun 3 2008, 05:10 PM) How ... Jun 3 2008, 03:17 PM

Aaron QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jun 3 2008, 10:10 AM) How ... Jun 3 2008, 03:45 PM
Larme QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Jun 3 2008, 10:08 A... Jun 4 2008, 01:27 AM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Larme @ Jun 4 2008, 03:27 AM) Ohh,... Jun 4 2008, 05:20 AM
Malicant QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Jun 4 2008, 07:20 A... Jun 4 2008, 10:44 AM
Malicant Because they would lose an important argument? Jun 3 2008, 01:38 PM
Fuchs You can easily add a house rule that once you go i... Jun 3 2008, 03:03 PM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jun 3 2008, 05:03 PM) You ... Jun 3 2008, 03:16 PM
Fuchs A level 20 archmage is a CR appropriate opponent f... Jun 3 2008, 03:29 PM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jun 3 2008, 05:29 PM) A le... Jun 3 2008, 03:37 PM
Fuchs 16+ is not "mega high level". Also, it... Jun 3 2008, 03:44 PM
Fuchs Yes. And that was about the social rules. 3E added... Jun 3 2008, 03:49 PM
Cantankerous 16+ isn't mega high level? Wait a tick. W... Jun 3 2008, 04:14 PM
Adarael As assholish as the "trade your D&D books... Jun 3 2008, 04:15 PM
Particle_Beam Mega-high level in D&D 3.x is indeed epic leve... Jun 3 2008, 06:35 PM
Cthulhudreams In 3.5 an 11th level NPC mage can seriously bind a... Jun 4 2008, 01:55 AM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Jun 4 2008, 03:55 ... Jun 4 2008, 05:28 AM
Cthulhudreams QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Jun 4 2008, 01:28 A... Jun 4 2008, 06:20 AM
Particle_Beam So, your only problem is that you're incapable... Jun 4 2008, 05:36 AM
Fuchs I think Cantankerous is simply stuck on defining ... Jun 4 2008, 07:07 AM
Critias It sounds more and more like Cantakerous simply do... Jun 4 2008, 07:27 AM
Cantankerous Hit points are and have always been an abstraction... Jun 4 2008, 09:40 AM
Fuchs And what exactly is "damage" in this con... Jun 4 2008, 09:48 AM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jun 4 2008, 11:48 AM) And ... Jun 4 2008, 10:00 AM
Cantankerous QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jun 4 2008, 11:48 AM) And ... Jun 4 2008, 10:04 AM
Cantankerous Now, with the above diatribe let out,
Tghe prob... Jun 4 2008, 09:58 AM
Fuchs "Small wounds" - a paper cut qualifies a... Jun 4 2008, 10:52 AM
bishop186 Honestly, the game is supposed to be heroic and la... Jun 4 2008, 01:19 PM![]() ![]() |
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 26th April 2026 - 01:28 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.