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> Getting frusterated with SR4 rules..., and I really want to like them
masterofm
post Oct 15 2008, 02:36 AM
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Ok so I have been playing SR4 for quite a while now and at every single twist and turn our group is routinely bickering on how rules can be applied to certain settings, and why RAW chooses to have things work one way but not the other (which then can kinda break the game.) At our table we have come up with house rule after house rule to try and jury rig the system to our liking. The problem is that when we look back on it we remember that what we are referencing is not in fact RAW, but a house rule that we had created a long time ago to make things smoother. Everything then becomes about trying to make the game work, and creating some sort of balance that allows us to work with the existing system. We don't view it as a workable system on its own however, and this is kind of a problem.

My group has really just reached that apex where we realized that to try to make this game work there is still much more time, effort, arguments, and nit picking then is really worth it at this point. I'm sorry I really want to love the system. I really really do, but I find it extremely annoying at the same time in some in game situations almost unplayable. Combat is slow and rickety, the matrix to us is one big headache, the magic system (spell casting, summoning, spirits, some traditions, spells) can just be stupidly over powered, and there are so many problems not nailed down that when you really take a long hard critical look at the set of SR4 books one wonders if it couldn't use a lot of tightening with less open ended rules. The universe is awesome, and my group and I love the fluff, however we have to consider using the same universe but with a different rule set since SR4 is giving us such a hard time.

In the end we have come to answer these questions:

Does the game have an interesting story setting? Yes.
Does the game have good clear cut rules that make sure things are clearly defined? No.
Does the game have a good balance system? No (and it has been commented by the devs themselves.)

I personally feel like when you would really love to have a rule nailed down that it is left up to the GMs discretion and vice versa (not all the time, but enough that it can be a little annoying.)

Since the first answer is such an emphatic yes it almost makes up for the rest of the failing graces that the system holds, yet I think our group with a sad groan must finish out our story arc and then find someone way to fit our characters into a different system, because like an abusive relationship we have had enough and must move on.

Sorry SR4, but we have had enough of this emotional roller coaster ride and have to get off now and the shame of it is we really don't want it to end.
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Posts in this topic
- masterofm   Getting frusterated with SR4 rules...   Oct 15 2008, 02:36 AM
- - Cain   Try SR3. It's got several clunky spots all it...   Oct 15 2008, 02:40 AM
|- - The ubbergeek   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 14 2008, 10:40 PM) Try ...   Oct 15 2008, 02:57 AM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (The ubbergeek @ Oct 14 2008, 07:57...   Oct 15 2008, 03:56 AM
- - masterofm   Yes, but it breaks my heart that after so long we ...   Oct 15 2008, 02:46 AM
- - Cardul   Actually, it seems the problem is someone is tryin...   Oct 15 2008, 03:23 AM
- - psychophipps   I personally don't think that it's a faile...   Oct 15 2008, 03:27 AM
- - masterofm   I'm trying to make grammatical sense of your l...   Oct 15 2008, 03:31 AM
|- - psychophipps   QUOTE (masterofm @ Oct 14 2008, 07:31 PM)...   Oct 15 2008, 03:39 AM
|- - Fortune   QUOTE (masterofm @ Oct 15 2008, 02:31 PM)...   Oct 15 2008, 07:11 AM
|- - BlueMax   QUOTE (Fortune @ Oct 15 2008, 12:11 AM) I...   Oct 15 2008, 07:52 PM
|- - Fortune   QUOTE (BlueMax @ Oct 16 2008, 06:52 AM) N...   Oct 15 2008, 09:37 PM
|- - BlueMax   QUOTE (Fortune @ Oct 15 2008, 02:37 PM) I...   Oct 15 2008, 10:27 PM
|- - Fortune   QUOTE (BlueMax @ Oct 16 2008, 09:27 AM) Y...   Oct 15 2008, 11:26 PM
- - masterofm   psychophipps sorry the first response was towards ...   Oct 15 2008, 03:43 AM
|- - hobgoblin   QUOTE (masterofm @ Oct 15 2008, 05:43 AM)...   Oct 15 2008, 11:26 AM
|- - Fuchs   QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 15 2008, 01:26 PM)...   Oct 15 2008, 11:36 AM
|- - BullZeye   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Oct 15 2008, 02:36 PM) See...   Oct 15 2008, 11:41 AM
- - wind_in_the_stones   Masterofm, I don't understand what your proble...   Oct 15 2008, 04:39 AM
- - Cardul   My roup uses the "Ok..here is what I am going...   Oct 15 2008, 05:30 AM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (Cardul @ Oct 14 2008, 09:30 PM) My...   Oct 15 2008, 05:44 AM
|- - Janice   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 14 2008, 10:44 PM) Conv...   Oct 15 2008, 05:59 AM
- - ThreeGee   Unless the OP is going to specify his problems wit...   Oct 15 2008, 06:51 AM
- - Blade   I use a lot of house rules, but nearly all of them...   Oct 15 2008, 08:38 AM
- - masterofm   We push our game. We as players always want to se...   Oct 15 2008, 08:40 AM
|- - Janice   QUOTE (masterofm @ Oct 15 2008, 01:40 AM)...   Oct 15 2008, 09:01 AM
- - BullZeye   How about giving some examples where the rules wer...   Oct 15 2008, 09:20 AM
- - ElFenrir   Our table hasn't had a problem, either. We fin...   Oct 15 2008, 09:27 AM
- - Cardul   Something a fellow played did in a recent game: H...   Oct 15 2008, 09:57 AM
|- - hobgoblin   QUOTE (Cardul @ Oct 15 2008, 11:57 AM) So...   Oct 15 2008, 11:34 AM
|- - Blade   QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 15 2008, 01:34 PM)...   Oct 15 2008, 12:06 PM
|- - psychophipps   QUOTE (Blade @ Oct 15 2008, 05:06 AM) Exa...   Oct 15 2008, 03:56 PM
|- - Tarantula   QUOTE (psychophipps @ Oct 15 2008, 08:56 ...   Oct 15 2008, 04:05 PM
||- - psychophipps   QUOTE (Tarantula @ Oct 15 2008, 09:05 AM)...   Oct 15 2008, 04:16 PM
||- - Tarantula   QUOTE (psychophipps @ Oct 15 2008, 09:16 ...   Oct 15 2008, 04:33 PM
||- - psychophipps   QUOTE (Tarantula @ Oct 15 2008, 09:33 AM)...   Oct 16 2008, 02:33 AM
|- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (psychophipps @ Oct 15 2008, 11:56 ...   Oct 15 2008, 04:31 PM
|- - Janice   QUOTE (psychophipps @ Oct 15 2008, 08:56 ...   Oct 15 2008, 11:00 PM
- - DocTaotsu   *pokes his head in* Yeah, just talked to my playe...   Oct 15 2008, 10:09 AM
- - masterofm   Wow Cardul way to take every single thing I have s...   Oct 15 2008, 10:27 AM
- - Cardul   Thank you for that compliment, Doc. I am sure our ...   Oct 15 2008, 10:56 AM
- - Fuchs   PDF+Search Function works well in such situations.   Oct 15 2008, 12:22 PM
- - hobgoblin   netbook and searchable pdf's, a gm's best ...   Oct 15 2008, 12:25 PM
- - DocTaotsu   Okay totally off topic: @hobgoblin What in the nam...   Oct 15 2008, 12:49 PM
- - Fortune   It's the expensive panda from Primal Forces, o...   Oct 15 2008, 12:52 PM
- - hobgoblin   red_cap had found the hacker avatar i was using an...   Oct 15 2008, 12:58 PM
|- - Fuchs   QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 15 2008, 02:58 PM)...   Oct 15 2008, 01:06 PM
- - hobgoblin   however, it could be a drop bear in disguise   Oct 15 2008, 01:28 PM
- - WiredWeasel   Okay, got a question to apply to both parties here...   Oct 15 2008, 01:30 PM
- - DocTaotsu   *shudders* A drop bear in a panda suit... I think...   Oct 15 2008, 02:21 PM
|- - hobgoblin   QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Oct 15 2008, 04:21 PM)...   Oct 15 2008, 02:27 PM
- - Ryu   Aarons Cheat Sheets. Check out his hacker cards, ...   Oct 15 2008, 02:49 PM
- - Tarantula   I'm curious as to what rules you found to be m...   Oct 15 2008, 03:06 PM
- - hobgoblin   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbed_wire#Human-pro...   Oct 15 2008, 04:14 PM
|- - psychophipps   QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 15 2008, 09:14 AM)...   Oct 15 2008, 04:23 PM
- - hobgoblin   btw, a simple leather jacket in SR4 is 2/2... and...   Oct 15 2008, 04:18 PM
- - DocTaotsu   OH GOD OH GOD HE'S DOING IT! HE'S TRYI...   Oct 15 2008, 04:35 PM
- - ElFenrir   Yeah, Monowire in SR is nothing to sneeze at. It...   Oct 15 2008, 04:35 PM
- - Aaron   First off, I think hobgoblin's point about liv...   Oct 15 2008, 04:35 PM
- - BullZeye   Still waiting the original poster to give an examp...   Oct 15 2008, 05:11 PM
- - Floyd   Not to put this thread back on track..... I was i...   Oct 15 2008, 05:39 PM
- - ornot   One of my players tends towards the rules lawyer s...   Oct 15 2008, 05:43 PM
|- - Tarantula   QUOTE (ornot @ Oct 15 2008, 11:43 AM) I h...   Oct 15 2008, 05:50 PM
|- - psychophipps   QUOTE (Tarantula @ Oct 15 2008, 10:50 AM)...   Oct 16 2008, 03:13 AM
|- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (psychophipps @ Oct 15 2008, 10:13 ...   Oct 16 2008, 05:11 AM
- - masterofm   The matrix and magic. Happy now? Geez take a loo...   Oct 15 2008, 05:46 PM
|- - Floyd   QUOTE (masterofm @ Oct 15 2008, 06:46 PM)...   Oct 15 2008, 06:08 PM
|- - Tarantula   QUOTE (masterofm @ Oct 15 2008, 11:46 AM)...   Oct 15 2008, 06:42 PM
- - Cain   MasterofM: I feel your pain. I'm still sticki...   Oct 15 2008, 06:43 PM
- - masterofm   Everything in SR is situational. Also where there...   Oct 15 2008, 07:14 PM
|- - ravensmuse   QUOTE (masterofm @ Oct 15 2008, 03:14 PM)...   Oct 15 2008, 07:36 PM
|- - ravensmuse   Hi, I'm a duplicate post.   Oct 15 2008, 07:36 PM
|- - ravensmuse   Agent Smith: Me too!   Oct 15 2008, 07:36 PM
|- - Tarantula   QUOTE (masterofm @ Oct 15 2008, 01:14 PM)...   Oct 15 2008, 07:37 PM
- - Wesley Street   Level 7+ is Initiation Level magic. A GM is allowe...   Oct 15 2008, 07:43 PM
- - masterofm   The way the situation went down we couldn't ha...   Oct 15 2008, 07:49 PM
|- - ravensmuse   I'm going to quote this just so that I can mai...   Oct 15 2008, 08:10 PM
- - Tarantula   Attacks of will ignore the ItNW of the spirit. SM...   Oct 15 2008, 08:00 PM
- - Tarantula   Counter to being feared in the fear power descript...   Oct 15 2008, 08:23 PM
- - masterofm   Spirit rolled 9 hits. Mage got 7 with edge. The ...   Oct 15 2008, 08:33 PM
- - Tarantula   First, if its a large boat, I'd be very inclin...   Oct 15 2008, 08:53 PM
- - BullZeye   The way I see the examples given, it sounds like t...   Oct 15 2008, 09:03 PM
- - Whipstitch   Sorry to digress here, but this issue is one of my...   Oct 15 2008, 10:22 PM
- - DocTaotsu   hear hear!   Oct 15 2008, 11:42 PM
- - Platinum Dragon   QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Oct 15 2008, 09:09 PM)...   Oct 16 2008, 04:36 AM
- - Riley37   I'm a fellow player at the same table as Maste...   Oct 16 2008, 05:37 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE The great thing about SR is that everything ...   Oct 16 2008, 05:39 AM
|- - Cantankerous   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 16 2008, 07:39 AM) You...   Oct 16 2008, 11:06 AM
- - stormcrow   Here's a short list of issues and types of iss...   Oct 16 2008, 05:49 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (stormcrow @ Oct 15 2008, 11:49 PM)...   Oct 16 2008, 07:26 AM
|- - Blade   QUOTE (kzt @ Oct 16 2008, 09:26 AM) I thi...   Oct 16 2008, 09:01 AM
- - Machiavelli   Aaaaah, now we are back at the topic.^^ I have r...   Oct 16 2008, 08:13 AM
- - Floyd   This thread has covered the spread from broken rul...   Oct 16 2008, 09:11 AM
|- - BullZeye   QUOTE (Floyd @ Oct 16 2008, 12:11 PM) ......   Oct 16 2008, 09:21 AM
- - Blade   Impressively readable for a long post   Oct 16 2008, 09:25 AM
- - ElFenrir   Very much. Bravo, you've said many things I th...   Oct 16 2008, 09:42 AM
- - Machiavelli   Whoa....this was really long. But did we have a pr...   Oct 16 2008, 09:45 AM
|- - Floyd   QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Oct 16 2008, 09:45 A...   Oct 16 2008, 09:54 AM
- - Machiavelli   Right, but never forget that GM´s are also just h...   Oct 16 2008, 11:54 AM
- - Blade   That's why Edge is more available to starting ...   Oct 16 2008, 12:15 PM
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