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> GM Styles, Collaborative vs. "Benelovent Dictator"
Cain
post Oct 23 2008, 03:36 AM
Post #1


Grand Master of Run-Fu
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From: Tir Tairngire
Member No.: 178



Doc asked someone to move this to its own thread, so here we go.

I'm going to open this with the same controversial comment that started this whole mess:

THE GM IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PLAYERS!!

The GM is just another player. He had added responsibility, but he ultimately doesn't have any more authority than the other players. If there's a conflict between the GM and a player, he shouldn't be: "I'm god, what I say goes!" Instead, he should be seeking group consensus; and if the consensus goes against him, the GM should bow gracefully to the will of the group, just like any other player.

The GM does not need to be the final rules arbiter. In fact, sometimes it's better when he isn't. Not everyone can memorize rulebooks. Most people just skim through the sections that pertain to their character. It takes a dedicated sort to fully absorb a ruleset, and that skill is really quite low among the qualities that make up a good GM. Being able to create fun, collaborative stories is #1. I'd rather have a GM who can tell good stories but can't remember rules, than one who can quote chapter and verse, but can't tell a good story.

Now, for those of you who claim that the benevolent dictator style works for them-- have you tried a more collaborative game before? Something like Wushu, which gives many of the traditional GM roles to the players; or Capes, which requires no GM at all. Heck, what about more traditional games with "Drama Points", such as Unisystem? They may not work for everyone, but how can you say it won't work for you if you don't try it?
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Posts in this topic
- Cain   GM Styles   Oct 23 2008, 03:36 AM
- - DocTaotsu   I hardly say that the conversation we've been ...   Oct 23 2008, 03:52 AM
|- - Wesley Street   QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Oct 22 2008, 10:52 PM)...   Oct 23 2008, 02:01 PM
- - Method   Hmmm... this should be an interesting read. Havin...   Oct 23 2008, 03:58 AM
- - DocTaotsu   In my idealized gaming world, that exists on the s...   Oct 23 2008, 04:21 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE I think it'd be appropriate to discuss t...   Oct 23 2008, 04:35 AM
|- - psychophipps   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 22 2008, 08:35 PM) The ...   Oct 23 2008, 05:07 AM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (psychophipps @ Oct 22 2008, 09:07 ...   Oct 23 2008, 05:55 AM
- - DocTaotsu   It sounds likes we're saying essentially the s...   Oct 23 2008, 05:00 AM
- - DocTaotsu   Ehhh... I know what your saying and there are situ...   Oct 23 2008, 05:14 AM
- - Method   Well it sounds to me like the two of you (Cain and...   Oct 23 2008, 05:21 AM
- - DocTaotsu   Ah yes that reminds me to comment on the "Goo...   Oct 23 2008, 05:32 AM
- - MaxMahem   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 22 2008, 10:36 PM) Doc ...   Oct 23 2008, 05:45 AM
- - DocTaotsu   I would say simply that the GM is and should be fa...   Oct 23 2008, 06:01 AM
|- - Blade   QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Oct 23 2008, 08:01 AM)...   Oct 23 2008, 09:02 AM
- - The Exiled V.2.0   Since a whole new topic was spun off, I'm repl...   Oct 23 2008, 06:40 AM
- - BullZeye   I used to GM in NWN in a realm where all the GMs w...   Oct 23 2008, 07:01 AM
- - DocTaotsu   @The Exiled V.2.0: The player didn't have easy...   Oct 23 2008, 07:39 AM
- - Cantankerous   QUOTE (MaxMahem @ Oct 23 2008, 07:45 AM) ...   Oct 23 2008, 08:13 AM
|- - MaxMahem   QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Oct 23 2008, 03:13 ...   Oct 23 2008, 10:35 PM
|- - Cantankerous   QUOTE (MaxMahem @ Oct 24 2008, 12:35 AM) ...   Oct 24 2008, 04:28 PM
- - sunnyside   *sigh* This is showing up on my "I doesn...   Oct 23 2008, 09:23 AM
- - DocTaotsu   As always YMMV. The Polaris I speak of is uh... v...   Oct 23 2008, 09:31 AM
- - Blade   Ok, so it's not the Polaris I know. The one I ...   Oct 23 2008, 10:02 AM
- - sk8bcn   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 23 2008, 05:36 AM) Doc ...   Oct 23 2008, 10:53 AM
- - overchord   As a GM i've always tried to follow my own rul...   Oct 23 2008, 10:58 AM
- - Cain   Here's the thing: the people so far who have s...   Oct 23 2008, 11:17 AM
|- - Blade   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 23 2008, 01:17 PM) I th...   Oct 23 2008, 01:04 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE ->Yes the GM is more important than the p...   Oct 23 2008, 11:31 AM
|- - overchord   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 23 2008, 12:31 PM) You ...   Oct 23 2008, 11:57 AM
|- - sk8bcn   You can't have a game without players, either....   Oct 23 2008, 12:38 PM
- - Cain   First things first: QUOTE A personnal attack that ...   Oct 23 2008, 01:33 PM
- - nezumi   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 22 2008, 11:36 PM) THE ...   Oct 23 2008, 04:05 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE I GM online. There are 20 players to every G...   Oct 23 2008, 07:46 PM
|- - nezumi   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 23 2008, 03:46 PM) I al...   Oct 23 2008, 10:04 PM
- - masterofm   Abritrary God it's all arbitrary and thus use...   Oct 23 2008, 08:29 PM
- - sk8bcn   by the way, and I must say it again: I basically a...   Oct 23 2008, 10:16 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE But as a hard and fast rule, I think it...   Oct 23 2008, 10:27 PM
|- - nezumi   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 23 2008, 06:27 PM) In e...   Oct 24 2008, 01:37 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE For the 4 reasons I mentioned in my orginal ...   Oct 23 2008, 11:39 PM
|- - MaxMahem   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 23 2008, 06:39 PM) A GM...   Oct 24 2008, 01:56 AM
- - masterofm   Contradictions on a forum? That is crazy talk...   Oct 24 2008, 01:28 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE To restate, perpahse most importantly it is ...   Oct 24 2008, 03:32 AM
|- - MaxMahem   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 23 2008, 10:32 PM) And ...   Oct 24 2008, 04:36 AM
- - hyzmarca   I just have one thing to say. Authority or not, a ...   Oct 24 2008, 04:44 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE The point is that GMs are expected to be imp...   Oct 24 2008, 05:14 AM
- - Floyd   Consensus....ok, consensus. Why do we game? There...   Oct 24 2008, 05:26 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE The argument that Master of M was(and still ...   Oct 24 2008, 05:39 AM
|- - Floyd   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 24 2008, 05:39 AM) So, ...   Oct 24 2008, 05:52 AM
- - masterofm   My GMs, of which I am one like to have a set of ru...   Oct 24 2008, 06:35 AM
- - Cantankerous   One thing to an idea stated above, that GMs are mo...   Oct 24 2008, 04:46 PM
|- - sk8bcn   QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Oct 24 2008, 06:46 ...   Oct 26 2008, 06:45 PM
- - noonesshowmonkey   I agree mostly with Max's position (surprise)....   Oct 24 2008, 07:14 PM
- - TheGothfather   I've only skimmed this thread, so forgive me i...   Oct 24 2008, 08:53 PM
- - Malachi   The root of all RPG problems comes from an attitud...   Oct 24 2008, 09:21 PM
- - masterofm   Yes communication is a nice thing. For some reaso...   Oct 24 2008, 09:41 PM
- - Pendaric   Well that was a long read. The term Benevolent Di...   Oct 25 2008, 12:26 AM
- - Method   I was going to comment on this last night, but I d...   Oct 25 2008, 03:21 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE While a GM may indeed have a bias towards a ...   Oct 25 2008, 03:43 AM
|- - psychophipps   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 24 2008, 07:43 PM) Your...   Oct 25 2008, 12:16 PM
|- - noonesshowmonkey   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 24 2008, 11:43 PM) Most...   Oct 26 2008, 05:15 PM
- - Cantankerous   There is never a period where a game suffers from ...   Oct 25 2008, 09:09 AM
|- - sk8bcn   QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Oct 25 2008, 11:09 ...   Oct 26 2008, 06:58 PM
- - Cantankerous   One other thing here, and I think this one is huge...   Oct 25 2008, 09:13 AM
- - nezumi   I think Pendaric hit the nail on the head. Some p...   Oct 25 2008, 04:00 PM
|- - TheGothfather   QUOTE (nezumi @ Oct 25 2008, 12:00 PM) I ...   Oct 25 2008, 11:57 PM
- - masterofm   The only thing I think Cain has been saying is tha...   Oct 25 2008, 04:37 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE I think Pendaric hit the nail on the head. S...   Oct 25 2008, 05:19 PM
|- - nezumi   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 25 2008, 12:19 PM) That...   Oct 26 2008, 12:10 PM
|- - sk8bcn   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 25 2008, 07:19 PM) That...   Oct 26 2008, 07:05 PM
- - Pendaric   The point is, Cain, if your doing your job right a...   Oct 25 2008, 09:05 PM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (Pendaric @ Oct 25 2008, 02:05 PM) ...   Oct 26 2008, 04:15 AM
|- - Cantankerous   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 26 2008, 06:15 AM) Even...   Oct 26 2008, 11:54 AM
- - Fortune   I don't presume, or even desire to teach my pl...   Oct 26 2008, 12:15 PM
|- - Cantankerous   QUOTE (Fortune @ Oct 26 2008, 01:15 PM) I...   Oct 26 2008, 02:23 PM
|- - Fortune   QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Oct 27 2008, 01:23 ...   Oct 26 2008, 11:40 PM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (Fortune @ Oct 26 2008, 03:40 PM) N...   Oct 27 2008, 01:50 AM
||- - Fortune   QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 27 2008, 12:50 PM) Simp...   Oct 27 2008, 07:02 AM
|- - Cantankerous   QUOTE (Fortune @ Oct 27 2008, 12:40 AM) N...   Oct 27 2008, 11:27 AM
- - sk8bcn   There's also another thing I'd like to poi...   Oct 26 2008, 07:24 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE A benevolent dictator can and should do that...   Oct 26 2008, 11:29 PM
|- - nezumi   CrusherBob, frankly, I'd hate to play in a gam...   Oct 27 2008, 03:19 PM
- - Pendaric   Your call Fortune (shrug). You seem a bit perdanti...   Oct 26 2008, 11:45 PM
- - Trobon   This is probably a can of worms I shouldn't st...   Oct 27 2008, 12:32 AM
- - Fortune   Nothing wrong that bitching about will help. Ser...   Oct 27 2008, 12:32 AM
- - Crusher Bob   The main problem I have with the GM as teh dictato...   Oct 27 2008, 04:13 AM
|- - Trobon   QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Oct 26 2008, 09:13 P...   Oct 27 2008, 04:21 AM
|- - MaxMahem   I've decided to stop responding in this thread...   Oct 27 2008, 05:49 AM
- - Crusher Bob   But very few games give characters the ability to ...   Oct 27 2008, 04:37 AM
|- - Trobon   QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Oct 26 2008, 09:37 P...   Oct 27 2008, 04:52 AM
- - Cain   I'm going to bring up a different story point ...   Oct 27 2008, 04:53 AM
- - masterofm   I wish I could stab this thread in the face. I al...   Oct 27 2008, 05:08 AM
- - Crusher Bob   While I think that stabbing this thread in the fac...   Oct 27 2008, 05:35 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE This may come as a surprise to some collabor...   Oct 27 2008, 06:03 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE I don't think I was that unclear. I...   Oct 27 2008, 11:44 AM
- - Fortune   I think to continue this much more would be just a...   Oct 27 2008, 12:28 PM
|- - Cantankerous   QUOTE (Fortune @ Oct 27 2008, 01:28 PM) I...   Oct 27 2008, 12:38 PM
- - Blade   As several people have already said, I might be cl...   Oct 27 2008, 12:59 PM
|- - Cantankerous   QUOTE (Blade @ Oct 27 2008, 01:59 PM) As ...   Oct 27 2008, 01:12 PM
- - Blade   I was comparing to the collaborative games out her...   Oct 27 2008, 01:46 PM
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