Alternatives to the Pass system, Attempting to make 4 IPs != 4x the awesome Options

[Heath Robinson]

For whatever reason, you want to replace the Pass system of SR4. Maybe you don't like the fact that when you've got 4 IPs your guns fire 4 times faster, or how IPs are a necessity for anybody who wants to avoid dying in a gunfight. Whatever. I don't care about the reasons, you just want to know about possible alternatives.

I also want to know about the alternatives. I'm the kind of person who likes seeing what happens when something changes.


All of these are going to require you recost IP boosting effects, oh well. The simpler ones are far less thought through, because they're boring.

NERFPLZ
Every extra IP adds a negative penalty that might be cumulative. Call it "attention deficit" or something.

Forseeable pros
• Really upfront
  
  Foreseeable cons
• Extra modifier to take into account

BOOSTPLZ
Everyone begins with 2 IPs and the maximums are raised by 1.

Forseeable pros
• Extra IPs are less important, but still important
• Extra tactical choices for people without IP boosts
• Reduced Initiative Pass effects are less awesome but can see more application
  
  Foreseeable cons
• Extra IPs still make you N times better, it's just offset slightly
• You still need extra IPs to do well in the combat minigame

Did I hear someone say Extra Actions? 'Cause I think I just heard someone say Extra Actions
Every character begins with their IPs stat at 2 and the maximum is 5 (6 for Matrix IPs). Instead of getting additional passes, you get a number of Simple Actions equal to your IPs stat (instead of the normal 2, hence the baseline increase in the IPs stat). You only get 1 Complex Action for all of your Simple Actions.

Forseeable pros
• RoF doesn't change so dramatically with additional IPs
• Smaller improvents makes extra IPs less of a necessity for combat characters
• People without extra IPs can still compete
• More interesting Cyber/Bio comes into play because IPs are less important
  
  Foreseeable cons
• The best way to apply extra IPs is now far less intuitive
• Recoil and Compensation are going to play a far bigger role in determining who wins a combat
• More frontloading on actions for initiative bunnies might mean that the low init mage never gets to do anything in combat
• Defense pools now drop quite quickly
• The coolness of hypervelocity weapons is seriously weakened
• Drones/Vehicles/Riggers don't get to do anything without making a crash test

Variants: Trading 2 Simple Actions gets you a Complex Action



No IPs, Init enhancement only, FINAL DESTINATION
Any effect that gives you extra IPs gives you +2 Initiative per extra IP instead.

Forseeable pros
• RoF doesn't change, at all
• Initiative enhancements make you fast off the mark
• Very simple
• People without extra IPs are quite a bit less gimped
• More interesting Cyber/Bio comes into play because getting extra initiative has a Poisson-shaped benefit curve
  
  Foreseeable cons
• Unsatisfying from a player perspective
• Adrenaline Surge becomes quite a bit more desirable
• Drones/Vehicles/Riggers don't get to do anything without making a crash test
• Spend a point of Edge, negate the effects of all that SOTA 'ware on the most important turn

Variants: Change the amount you add to initiative, Allow extra Matrix IPs



Look, I just liked the old system better, is using that too much to ask for?
You roll initiative. Generally your initiative is quite high and varies quite a bit. Initiative begins at the highest roll and sldies downwards giving you an action when the tracker hits your initiative entry. You gain additional entries every 10 below your value. Ware gives you lots of extra Initiative to make extra passes likely.

Forseeable pros
• SR2 players will want to have your children
• Normal folks can get multiple passes
• Sams may not get the full effect of their Init enhacement without some personal work
  
  Foreseeable cons
• Isn't this thread meant to be about reducing the owningness of extra Passes?
• Sams go first. ALWAYS.

Variants: You don't get the additional entries normally and instead when everyone has had their Action Phase they subtract 10 from their Initiative and everyone with a positive Initiative gets another Action Phase in Initiative order (repeat until no further combatants have positive Initiative), You get additional entries every 20 Initiative and then you take a second pass with 10 less Initiative in which only people with positive Initiative get to act



I like them being awesome, but not quite that awesome
Everyone only ever has 1 IP. Any device that normally gives you an extra IP instead gives you a +1DP bonus on combat actions (this exact tests that the bonus applies to can be tweaked in playtesting) in addition to the Initiative bonus.

Foreseeable Pros
• Players based on speed (extra passes) still get a fairly significant boost for their efforts
• Players with 1 IP won't feel left out because they are acting just as much as everyone else, just not as "well" as the combat monsters
  
  Foreseeable Cons
• DP inflaction
• Drones/Vehicles/Riggers don't get to do anything without making a crash test

Variant: Replace the +1 DP with a +1 Modifier to Agility.



This Sam is super lucky!
In this, all players start with 1 IP. Ware that increases IPs as well as Reaction/Initative, only increases Reaction/Initiative instead. At the start of combat, all players roll their Initiative dice, as normal. Figure the rest of Initiative as normal; someone with a 10 who rolled 3 hits goes on a 13. In addition, every full 3 hits gives the character an extra IP. This lasts until the next full Combat Turn, and Initiative is rerolled. So it would be:

Joe the Sam rolls and gets 6 hits, lucky! He has 3 IPs(2 from hits, + 1 natural.) The combat turn goes as normal; with his extra IPs coming in after everyone else has used theirs up. There are still opponents left; so not everyone rerolls. This time, Joe isn't as lucky...only 3 hits...enough to get him just 2 IPs this turn.

Forseeable Pros
• Players aren't forced to load on on IP-increasing ware/foci/expensive abilities. They still find it a good addition, though.
• A hint of randomness, which some folks might like. You might get 4 IPs this time...or maybe still have only 1. Adds some risk, but then there's those nice reward times.
• The more lightly augmented have chances to get more IPs, and the Reaction/Initiative boosting Qualities will mean quite a bit to them, being worth it. Other builds-like pure adepts without needing to buy the very expensive Initiative boosting powers might be seen more.
• Adds a little more threat to the game, knowing that even Joe Security Guard might have a lucky roll and get an extra IP that he might not have had before.
  
  Forseeable Cons
• People are likely to frontload Reaction as much as possible. This can also lead to dodge twinks.
• People might be likely to twink the Initative stats in general higher than most, just to ensure they get multiple hits.
• A little more math-after calculating Initative, then Ips must be calculated.
• Changing Initiative and Pass numbers each turn. Players need to be on the ball for this.
• "I rolled low this turn, I have to suck". Doubly so for Drones/Riggers/Vehicles.

You have 30 seconds to take your turn
Reduce the turn length to 1 second. Everyone rolls Initiative at the beginning of combat - this determines their initial Action Points. Everyone gains a number of Action Points equal to their Reflexes (aka IP) each turn. It costs 4 AP to perform a Complex action, 2 to perform a Simple action, 1 to perform a Free action. There's a banked AP cap of 5 and you can rush an action at the cost of a DP modifier equal to the AP deficit. You also go into negative AP from rushing and cannot rush when you have negative AP.

Your Recoil counter resets when you take a Take Aim action.

Foreseeable Pros
• More accurately models combat chaos
• Tactical expenditure allows you to be quite flexible when you don't have 4 IPs
• You can express things as a per-second rate and there's no calculation to get that into the per-turn rate
  
  Foreseeable Cons
• Extra Bookkeeping
• Needs the players to rework their instincts more than many other systems because of the way Recoil gets handled and the way AP replenishes

Variants: Use a 3-pass CT that occupies 3s and discard any APs above 1 at the end of each CT - you may make an Interrupt Action for 2 APs



Your guns suffer from a bad case of Physics
All IP rules remain the same as RAW but guns are restricted to a set number of shots per combat turn. This is based on the number of rounds said weapon can fire in the hands of someone unaugmented (single shot=1, semi auto=2, full auto=10, hypervelocity=12), and ignores the RAW for number of bullets used for suppressive fire. This bullet allowance can be spread across the combat turn by fighters with multiple IPs, and each additional IP refreshes the recoil mods. Hence a 4IP sam with a hypervelocity minigun can fire a short burst, without stacking recoil penalties, in each of his phases, and can even throw in a take aim action for each one. Conversely Mr. Mundane can fire the same number of bullets, with a full-auto action, but cannot aim, and suffers a hefty recoil penalty. To balance magic, similarly only one spell may be cast per phase.

Foreseeable Pros
• Melee gets more favourable trade ins for extra IPs
• Very light rules change
• Guns are more equally effective across different degrees of augmentation
• Promotes tactical fire choices
  
  Foreseeable Cons
• Guns are less powerful than RAW
• Extra bookkeeping
• Combats are more likely to drag on past the sweet spot where the victor has been decided
• High IPs or recoil comp, you need only choose one
• "The reason I have 3 shotguns is that I can fire all of them in 3 seconds, like a juggler."

Military Simulations FTW
Make a Tactics roll instead of the Initiative roll. Everyone declares their actions in ascending order of the tactics roll and the time allowed for this depends on the number of hits you got on the roll. If you want to co-ordinate your actions, it costs you hits off your Tactics roll. After declarations the GM narrates the actions of the turn.

IPs affect the number of actions you get to take and their placement within the single turn timeline.

Foreseeable Pros
• Pretty good match to reality
• Far less optimal action choices due to time constraints
• Combat ends up being more narrative which can be good
• Tactical abilities of the characters comes into play
  
  Foreseeable Cons
• Dramatically different to the normal Initiative system
• Lots of GM adjudication
• Extra resource management
• Quite low granularity on ordering resolution

Variants: Add a Leadership pool of hits that can be used instead of Tactics hits for co-ordination



A bit of the old Mexican standoff
You don't get additional passes, but whenever you want to react to an action occuring within a certain area of your character you roll IPs x2 with the number of hits determining what "size" action you can take in response.

Foreseeable Pros
• Even less tracking than the base SR4 system
• Models snap reactions instead of faster cognition
• Conceptually simpler than the original system
• Very little rewriting of the rules
  
  Foreseeable Cons
• Melee never really sees any benefit from extra IPs due to being one of the largest actions you can get
• A lot of extra rolling
• Pistols + Wired 2 = NO U!
• Bit more GM adjudication than normal

Variants: Modify the roll used to determine what you get to do



Okay, so you go then I go, then we both go together, right?
Rather than subsequent passes going upwards (i.e. 1-2-3-4), the passes go through some other order. For example, downwards (4-3-2-1) or even an interleaved system (3-1-4-2).

Foreseeable Pros
• It's not all that different from normal SR4
  
  Foreseeable Cons
• Non-linear pass orders may see a little more learning curve than normal
• Still has the "4 IPs is 4 times as awesome" problem
• Can end up with frontloaded actions for high-IP characters, meaning that non-combatants get to do nothing in combat at all

Variants: Rather than a pass order change you get to act on certain passes based on how many IPs you have (i.e. 1: 4; 2: 3,5; 3: 2,4,6; 4: 1,3,5,7;)



I think we should institute Flextime
There are N Passes each Combat Turn, and you can spend one of your X IPs each Combat Turn to act in the current Pass. You movement is fixed between Passes you act in, and running into someone means you have to take a test to avoid getting thrown onto your ass.

Foreseeable Pros
• It's not all that different from normal SR4
  
  Foreseeable Cons
• Still has the "4 IPs is 4 times as awesome" problem
• In a low IP game, everyone may wait until the last few Passes to take their actions (to maximise survivability), making the high-IP characters the star actors in combat

Variants: Some IP enhancers give you "reactive IPs" that you can only take in the same Pass as someone else


I'll add any good points to the lists above if this thread gets off the ground.

Edits:

• Added Malachi's system as "I like them being awesome, but not quite that awesome".
• Added ElFenrir's system as "This Sam is super lucky!"
• Added HentaiZonga's system as "You have 30 seconds to take your turn".
• Added Psychophipps' system as a variant of "I like them awesome, but not quite that awesome".
• Added ornot's system as "Your guns suffer from a bad case of Physics".
• Added Blade's system as "Military Simulations FTW".
• Added BrownCoatOne's system as "A bit of the old Mexican standoff".
• Added The Pat's systems wherever they fit (mostly as variants).
• Added The Monk's system as a variant of "Did someone say Extra Actions? Because I think I just heard someone say Extra Actions".
• Renamed "Look, I just liked the SR3 system better, is using that too much to ask for?" to "Look, I just liked the old system better, is using that too much to ask for?", added Variants
• Added Caadium's system as "Okay, so you go then I go, then we both go together, right?"
• Added The Monk's second system as a variant of "You have 30 seconds to take your turn".
• Added FrankTrollman's system as "I think we should institute Flextime".