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MeagerEvil
post Jan 10 2009, 09:17 AM
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My name is Meager, I am an old school runner. I recently picked up 4th ed because I was nostalgic for the shadows and I wanted to introduce my gaming group to the game. They have since taken to it like a humanis to wihte bread. In my game I have disallowed technomancers, SURGED, AI, and Drakes from the game for various reasons, generally for fluff reasons, I was hoping to get some feedback from some experienced GMs about how they deal with them from a fluff point of view, as well as any gripes/discrepencies they have about the new system.

Here is why I dissallowed them:

Technomancers: As I understood it Technomancers were originally the deckers caught in the renraku arcology shutdown, Deus preformed experiments on them and turned them into a kind of living deck, able to interface with computers with their mind. Their power to interface with the matrix using their mind was never really explained or made much sense, I don't mind having a rare technomancer in the game, but they are badly explained in the new edition and frankly I think they are a shameless player service, a mechanic for being 'the one' and talking with machines. I think that in an effort to make a playable class out of them they have detracted from technomancers as a whole.

SURGED: I personally disliked this entry from Shadows of the Comet, my group ignored it for the most part, SURGEd and technomancers felt alittle too much like trying to make the game an anime. In my game any SURGEd character is ostracized, as the smallest and most recent minority of metahumanity they have the least support, even the trolls dislike them.

AI: I remember a day when the word AI caused deckers to cringe in fear, a time when even the smallest AI was a unstoppable force in the matrix that could rip you apart with a thought. I see no reason why this would change, a true AI is a god in the machine, able to replicate across systems and seamlessly intagrate into systems, able to rewrite things on the fly. I feel that letting the players play a 'weak' AI is a insult to AI's and makes little sense, if a program became self aware it would rapidly expand to the maximum capabilities of the system its in, and then expand to any system it can. In the name of WIntermute, Shodan, Xerxces, Deus, Mirage. I say NO.

Drakes: WOW, really? Drakes? dragonkind are the most powerful beings in shadowrun, even the weakest should be far beyond any starting character. I think that by making them a playable race you are forced to remove the majority of their power in the name of balance, in my game even the weakest drake would be a 1000bp character because thats how bad ass they SHOULD be.

So in conclusion I'd have to say that my problem with these archetypes and races are that in making the rare and powerful into a playable choice for starting character you remove the very aspects which makes them so awesome, they should have been left as overpowered or very rare beings who require gm special approval, not made into balanced starting classes.
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Posts in this topic
- MeagerEvil   Technomancers, Drakes and AI   Jan 10 2009, 09:17 AM
- - Ryu   Technomancers are not Otaku, SURGE can be a very d...   Jan 10 2009, 10:09 AM
- - Synner667   I agree... ...Making what was formerly rare and po...   Jan 10 2009, 11:14 AM
- - Heath Robinson   It's better to have and not need than want and...   Jan 10 2009, 11:33 AM
- - Rad   Or, maybe, y'know, they're just throwing u...   Jan 10 2009, 11:35 AM
- - Aaron   I originally despised technomancers, but I have si...   Jan 10 2009, 11:45 AM
- - Ryu   Resonance is very much similar to magic - but we g...   Jan 10 2009, 01:36 PM
- - The Jake   QUOTE (MeagerEvil @ Jan 10 2009, 09:17 AM...   Jan 10 2009, 01:39 PM
- - hobgoblin   if one want to see true dragons as characters, che...   Jan 10 2009, 01:57 PM
- - GreyBrother   Haha, great one. Well, it's up to you. My GMs...   Jan 10 2009, 02:05 PM
- - Larme   I like what they did with AIs. The "god in t...   Jan 10 2009, 09:16 PM
- - Falrien   I have just started running my first proper campai...   Jan 10 2009, 09:20 PM
|- - The Jake   QUOTE (Falrien @ Jan 10 2009, 10:20 PM) I...   Jan 11 2009, 01:13 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Falrien @ Jan 10 2009, 02:20 PM) I...   Jan 12 2009, 01:57 AM
|- - Aaron   QUOTE (kzt @ Jan 11 2009, 07:57 PM) I thi...   Jan 12 2009, 03:49 AM
|- - Tiger Eyes   QUOTE (Aaron @ Jan 11 2009, 10:49 PM) I t...   Jan 12 2009, 05:20 AM
- - Matsci   QUOTE (MeagerEvil @ Jan 10 2009, 09:17 AM...   Jan 10 2009, 10:44 PM
- - AllTheNothing   QUOTE (MeagerEvil @ Jan 10 2009, 10:17 AM...   Jan 11 2009, 11:54 PM
- - Cardul   I really do not get why all the hate directed towa...   Jan 12 2009, 06:37 AM
- - MaxMahem   My feelings. Technomancers: Kind of funky, but I ...   Jan 12 2009, 07:06 AM
- - Cardul   One thing about AIs: A while back, there was the w...   Jan 12 2009, 08:36 AM
- - Fuchs   Technomancers: I hate the concept, since I don...   Jan 12 2009, 09:39 AM
|- - hobgoblin   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jan 12 2009, 10:39 AM) esp...   Jan 12 2009, 11:15 AM
||- - raggedhalo   I was thinking he might mean the Resonance Realm t...   Jan 12 2009, 11:37 AM
||- - AllTheNothing   QUOTE (raggedhalo @ Jan 12 2009, 12:37 PM...   Jan 12 2009, 12:12 PM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jan 12 2009, 04:39 AM) Sur...   Jan 13 2009, 05:21 AM
- - hobgoblin   gah, it seems i was looking in the wrong place (wh...   Jan 12 2009, 11:48 AM
- - Fuchs   Yes (Unwired p. 173).   Jan 12 2009, 11:53 AM
- - hobgoblin   the endless archive? looks to me like a fluff buil...   Jan 12 2009, 12:01 PM
- - hobgoblin   so it all hinges on someone managing to gain acces...   Jan 12 2009, 12:20 PM
- - Fuchs   The mechanics to access the Endless Archive are de...   Jan 12 2009, 12:47 PM
|- - AllTheNothing   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jan 12 2009, 01:47 PM) The...   Jan 12 2009, 01:16 PM
- - Fuchs   Or, worse, if the TM starts to use Erase Data (p. ...   Jan 12 2009, 01:24 PM
|- - AllTheNothing   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jan 12 2009, 02:24 PM) Or,...   Jan 12 2009, 01:41 PM
|- - The Jake   QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Jan 12 2009, 01:41...   Jan 13 2009, 06:41 AM
- - Demonseed Elite   I've never really allowed technomancers, drake...   Jan 12 2009, 01:34 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Jan 12 2009, 06...   Jan 12 2009, 04:20 PM
- - Fuchs   Why Mitsuhama is still around, with ticked off TMs...   Jan 12 2009, 01:58 PM
|- - GreyBrother   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jan 12 2009, 02:58 PM) Why...   Jan 12 2009, 07:02 PM
|- - Mäx   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jan 12 2009, 03:58 PM) Why...   Jan 13 2009, 11:43 AM
- - Larme   TMs aren't all powerful, regular TMs are the s...   Jan 12 2009, 02:07 PM
- - hobgoblin   or it was expected that the GM would basically say...   Jan 13 2009, 06:48 AM
- - GreyBrother   Indeed hobgoblin. Realm Searches are bound by what...   Jan 13 2009, 07:51 AM
- - hermit   What I disallow: Infected. Even SR4 is not oWoD....   Jan 13 2009, 10:55 AM
|- - Demonseed Elite   QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 13 2009, 05:55 AM) Wh...   Jan 13 2009, 12:56 PM
|- - GreyBrother   QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 13 2009, 11:55 AM) Th...   Jan 13 2009, 05:01 PM
- - Fuchs   Did you read the post? Banks need to have lines of...   Jan 13 2009, 11:53 AM
|- - Mäx   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jan 13 2009, 01:53 PM) Did...   Jan 13 2009, 12:06 PM
- - hermit   Not to mention that there's no way to prevent ...   Jan 13 2009, 12:04 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE There really aren't that many tm:s aroun...   Jan 13 2009, 12:37 PM
- - Wesley Street   I don't cut or disallow anything in my games. ...   Jan 13 2009, 02:58 PM
- - InfinityzeN   My personal views on this... Infected: No... jus...   Jan 13 2009, 03:46 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE They make an excellent getaway vehicle durin...   Jan 13 2009, 04:18 PM
|- - Mäx   QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 13 2009, 06:18 PM) Wh...   Jan 13 2009, 05:00 PM
||- - Warlordtheft   QUOTE (Mäx @ Jan 13 2009, 12:00 PM) I th...   Jan 14 2009, 03:34 PM
|- - InfinityzeN   QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 13 2009, 11:18 AM) Wh...   Jan 13 2009, 05:14 PM
|- - Wesley Street   QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 13 2009, 11:18 AM) Bu...   Jan 13 2009, 05:26 PM
|- - Apathy   QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Jan 13 2009, 12:26...   Jan 13 2009, 06:32 PM
|- - InfinityzeN   QUOTE (Apathy @ Jan 13 2009, 01:32 PM) ED...   Jan 13 2009, 07:13 PM
|- - Ryu   QUOTE (InfinityzeN @ Jan 13 2009, 08:13 P...   Jan 14 2009, 10:34 AM
|- - Apathy   QUOTE (Ryu @ Jan 14 2009, 05:34 AM) Becau...   Jan 14 2009, 03:04 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE On a straightaway. But I'll take a quick...   Jan 13 2009, 10:39 PM
|- - Wesley Street   QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 13 2009, 05:39 PM) Yo...   Jan 14 2009, 06:13 PM
- - hermit   So, apart from GM fiat, there is nothing that can ...   Jan 14 2009, 03:58 PM
|- - Mäx   QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 14 2009, 05:58 PM) So...   Jan 14 2009, 04:05 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE Explain to me how you do those thinks by the...   Jan 14 2009, 04:41 PM
|- - Mäx   QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 14 2009, 06:41 PM) Wh...   Jan 14 2009, 04:56 PM
- - Fuchs   Those "fluff descriptions" are all under...   Jan 14 2009, 05:30 PM
|- - Mäx   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jan 14 2009, 07:30 PM) Tho...   Jan 14 2009, 06:10 PM
- - DamienKnight   QUOTE (MeagerEvil @ Jan 10 2009, 03:17 AM...   Jan 14 2009, 06:07 PM
|- - Synner667   QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Jan 14 2009, 06:07 ...   Jan 14 2009, 06:14 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE I'm talking about centaurs. How are they...   Jan 14 2009, 06:47 PM
- - Jhaiisiin   He could have always had the Mystic Adept ability,...   Jan 14 2009, 07:40 PM
- - Fuchs   First time I heard Ryan is called an "excelle...   Jan 14 2009, 08:41 PM
|- - Demonseed Elite   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jan 14 2009, 03:41 PM) Fir...   Jan 14 2009, 09:50 PM
|- - DWC   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Jan 14 2009, 04...   Jan 14 2009, 09:59 PM
- - Wiggles Von Beerchuggin'   First time GM weighing in. I'm running a game...   Jan 15 2009, 12:14 AM
|- - The Jake   QUOTE (Wiggles Von Beerchuggin' @ Jan 15 ...   Jan 15 2009, 01:36 AM
|- - darthmord   QUOTE (Wiggles Von Beerchuggin' @ Jan 14 ...   Jan 15 2009, 02:27 PM
- - InfinityzeN   I have to agree, run the game your players want to...   Jan 15 2009, 04:06 PM
- - Jeremiah Legacy   My thoughts: Technomancers: I allow them, BUT, th...   Jan 15 2009, 05:00 PM
|- - AllTheNothing   QUOTE (Jeremiah Legacy @ Jan 15 2009, 06...   Jan 15 2009, 09:31 PM
|- - darthmord   QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Jan 15 2009, 04:31...   Jan 15 2009, 09:44 PM
- - GreyBrother   Just EAT people. Killing can be done by another on...   Jan 15 2009, 06:48 PM


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