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> Automatic fire with Area of Effect, How does one handle this?
Togashi Shinjits...
post Feb 25 2009, 02:26 AM
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Full-auto and Burst-fire Area of Effect weapons are not handled by the Shadowrun rules.

(if you think full auto grenade launchers are not here already search for - Mk19, XM307, XM25 (for the MGL-12), Metalstorm's Redback to name a few)

Imagine this scenario: A short burst from a grenade launcher at a target. (grenade launcher is equipped with airburst option)

Narrow burst - all grenades are aimed at the same target. If you hit, they all hit the target, doing standard +2DV for a burst.
(If you miss, it would be reasonable to assume that the entire burst scatters as one entity.)

That works, but here come the problems

Wide burst - the grenades are fired in the general direction of the target, aiming to catch the target with ONE of the grenades at least.

If you hit with a wide burst, ONE of the grenades hits the target. Where are the other two? If they aren't on target, they scatter, which is reduced by hits, so they will hit as well. this brings them up to standard +2DV per extra shot hitting again.

Damage from Wide Burst that hits = Narrow Burst that hits, but it is harder to dodge. Rules fail.

If you miss with a Wide Burst, NONE of the grenades are on target, but scatter as grenades do. Airburst grenades scatter by 1d6 metres, and if you use fragmentation grenades, they have a 12m blast radius. The target is hit by the blast from 3 separate grenades, even though you missed. How do you figure out the DV for that? One grenade may be 5m away, one may be 1m away, and one may be 3m away. Rules fail.

If the burst scatters as a group instead, how does a Wide Burst differ from a Narrow Burst? Anyone caught in the blast would be affected as if they were shot with a Narrow Burst, not a Wide Burst. Rules fail.

These problems are exaggerated when you look at Full Bursts or multiple targets. Within a metre of each other? If you hit them with a grenade, they will be caught in the AoE at a metre distance. They are pretty much still the target. Does it mean that the blast radii can be up to a metre apart?

What about suppressive fire with a Full-auto AoE weapon?
20 rounds downrange (10m width at end of range) from one action phase to your next action phase. That is SERIOUS destruction. Bullets are easy to track in that kind or scenario. They end up imbedded in something. Airburst grenades don't. They do a LOT of collateral damage, and you can't figure out where it should happen. Rules fail.

What about 4 initiative passes firing Full-auto suppression? 80 rounds downrange in 3 seconds. Even over a 40m spread, that is untold destruction with AoE weapons.

The closest to Full-auto AoE weapons in the books is the Fleche missile barrage system. Which is freaking rules heavy if you adapt them to use on every Full-auto AoE weapon. separate to hit rolls for each one? Up to 20? for each missile past the first, apply a -2 dice pool modifier to the to-hit roll.
so the first one will be on target, the next ones may not be so lucky...
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Posts in this topic
- Togashi Shinjitsu   Automatic fire with Area of Effect   Feb 25 2009, 02:26 AM
- - BlueMax   QUOTE (Togashi Shinjitsu @ Feb 24 2009, 06...   Feb 25 2009, 02:33 AM
- - Draco18s   Likely balance. I've shown (in another thread...   Feb 25 2009, 02:41 AM
|- - Togashi Shinjitsu   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 25 2009, 01:41 PM) ...   Feb 25 2009, 03:31 AM
- - Shinobi Killfist   Normally I'd suggest hitting the player wantin...   Feb 25 2009, 03:48 AM
- - Draco18s   Well, characters already don't dodge grenades ...   Feb 25 2009, 04:20 AM
- - Togashi Shinjitsu   I've spent hours hammering this out, and have ...   Feb 25 2009, 06:18 AM
- - Draco18s   Actually, those aren't bad wideburst rules. I...   Feb 25 2009, 07:54 AM
- - Dream79   In the case of a frag which is still explosive I w...   Feb 25 2009, 08:57 AM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Dream79 @ Feb 25 2009, 03:57 AM) I...   Feb 25 2009, 09:29 AM
- - Dream79   +2/+3 being the typical damage modifier of flechet...   Feb 25 2009, 10:17 AM
- - Prime Mover   I've tried to keep this simple. One roll for ...   Feb 25 2009, 03:14 PM
|- - Togashi Shinjitsu   QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Feb 26 2009, 02:14 A...   Feb 27 2009, 06:04 AM
- - jago668   I always just said scatter like normal and resolve...   Feb 25 2009, 05:04 PM
- - Wasabi   The easiest way to handle them is to have your pla...   Feb 27 2009, 12:35 PM
- - crizh   On the chunky salsa thing, realistically someone l...   Feb 27 2009, 12:50 PM
- - BIG BAD BEESTE   Interesting. I liked the point about auto grenade ...   Feb 27 2009, 01:38 PM
- - Straight Razor   what ever happened to the 3ed suppressive fire rul...   Feb 27 2009, 02:12 PM


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