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Shadowrun 4A Changes
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Muspellsheimr
post Mar 15 2009, 11:25 PM
Post #1


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It was brought up in another thread (Petition, I believe) that those arguing against the changes in the SR4A are 'a vocal minority', and that the majority are happy with the changes. I have always despised that counterpoint, because it is equally lacking in support as saying the vast majority oppose a change.

As such, I am presenting this as a poll in an attempt to get a better overall view of opinions, that the developers will hopefully use for deciding what alterations to make, if any.



The system I have proposed for Attribute Advancement is as follows:
Note: This is a cut-and-paste from my personal Karma Generation system. It is not intended to support Karma Generation, but to explain how I believe attribute increases should be handled.
QUOTE
Step 3: Purchase Attributes
Next, purchase the characters attributes (including special attributes). Characters begin with the minimum attribute ratings defined by their race/metatype (including Templates). Before determining the advancement cost of an attribute, apply the inverse of any racial modifiers. To determine a racial modifier to an attribute, calculate the difference between the races maximum & 6 (an Elf has 8 maximum Charisma, the racial modifier is +2; a Dwarf has 5 maximum Reaction, the racial modifier is -1). The cost of increasing an Attribute is New Rating x 5 Karma.

Example: John wishes to increase his Trolls Body from 5 to 6. Because a Troll has +4 Body, the cost is (6-4) x 5, or 10 Karma.

Example: John then decides to increase his Trolls Charisma from 1 to 2. A Troll has -2 Charisma, so the cost is (2+2) x 5, or 20 Karma.
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Posts in this topic
- Muspellsheimr   Shadowrun 4 Anniversary Changes   Mar 15 2009, 11:25 PM
- - pbangarth   I would prefer to see a modification in Drain such...   Mar 15 2009, 11:31 PM
- - ElFenrir   Voted. As most know, I prefer the Attribute x3 Kar...   Mar 15 2009, 11:31 PM
- - It trolls!   Voted "Other" on the casting rule. I...   Mar 15 2009, 11:43 PM
- - Andinel   The cost for raising Attributes really was too low...   Mar 16 2009, 12:03 AM
|- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (Andinel @ Mar 15 2009, 06:03 PM) T...   Mar 16 2009, 12:10 AM
- - Andinel   I did look at them. Personally, it seems like it c...   Mar 16 2009, 12:17 AM
|- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (Andinel @ Mar 15 2009, 05:17 PM) I...   Mar 16 2009, 12:28 AM
- - Abschalten   After thinking about it, even as much as I hate th...   Mar 16 2009, 12:19 AM
|- - crizh   QUOTE (Abschalten @ Mar 16 2009, 12:19 AM...   Mar 16 2009, 12:22 AM
|- - Abschalten   QUOTE (crizh @ Mar 15 2009, 07:22 PM) How...   Mar 16 2009, 12:27 AM
|- - Starmage21   QUOTE (crizh @ Mar 15 2009, 07:22 PM) How...   Mar 16 2009, 12:28 AM
- - crizh   I was happy just the way things were. None of th...   Mar 16 2009, 12:20 AM
|- - Aaron   Hm.   Mar 16 2009, 01:29 AM
- - ElFenrir   If Attributes are too fast now, we must really be ...   Mar 16 2009, 12:21 AM
- - Cardul   I like the changes, and here is why: 1) The empha...   Mar 16 2009, 12:49 AM
- - Muspellsheimr   1) Again, you are entirely ignoring the impact on ...   Mar 16 2009, 12:59 AM
- - ElFenrir   Not wanting to get too far into a stat-weight disc...   Mar 16 2009, 01:03 AM
- - Angier   I, too, like the changes. 1) Attributes are still...   Mar 16 2009, 01:06 AM
- - Fuchs   I don't really have trouble with making it har...   Mar 16 2009, 01:11 AM
- - hermit   Necessary changes to Attribute cost were necessary...   Mar 16 2009, 01:40 AM
|- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 15 2009, 06:40 PM) I ...   Mar 16 2009, 02:13 AM
- - Critias   I was tempted to go "other" for everythi...   Mar 16 2009, 01:45 AM
|- - crizh   QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 16 2009, 01:45 AM) N...   Mar 16 2009, 03:22 AM
- - ElFenrir   QUOTE I'm not fan at all of increasing the XP ...   Mar 16 2009, 02:08 AM
- - Ayeohx   So far I'm digging the changes. I've al...   Mar 16 2009, 03:19 AM
- - crizh   Can I make an observation? It's genuinely not...   Mar 16 2009, 03:32 AM
|- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (crizh @ Mar 15 2009, 09:32 PM) (Sh...   Mar 16 2009, 03:59 AM
|- - Demonseed Elite   QUOTE (crizh @ Mar 15 2009, 10:32 PM) It ...   Mar 16 2009, 11:45 AM
||- - Bull   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Mar 16 2009, 06...   Mar 17 2009, 04:36 PM
|- - fistandantilus4.0   QUOTE (crizh @ Mar 15 2009, 10:32 PM) Can...   Mar 17 2009, 09:23 PM
- - de4dmeta1   @crizh: Personally, I think post count has very li...   Mar 16 2009, 04:12 AM
- - Muspellsheimr   Although certainly not universally true, it is pro...   Mar 16 2009, 04:32 AM
- - Leehouse   I don't really have a problem with the changes...   Mar 16 2009, 04:32 AM
|- - Zurai   QUOTE (Leehouse @ Mar 16 2009, 12:32 AM) ...   Mar 16 2009, 04:51 AM
|- - Leehouse   QUOTE (Zurai @ Mar 16 2009, 12:51 AM) Jus...   Mar 16 2009, 04:40 PM
- - Medicineman   I Think the new Attribute Cost of x5 is better in ...   Mar 16 2009, 07:02 AM
- - Fuchs   Post Count doesn't mean a thing.   Mar 16 2009, 09:07 AM
|- - Cardul   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Mar 16 2009, 04:07 AM) Pos...   Mar 16 2009, 09:41 AM
|- - Caadium   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Mar 16 2009, 02:07 AM) Pos...   Mar 16 2009, 09:43 AM
- - hermit   QUOTE My system does not give metatypes a discount...   Mar 16 2009, 09:43 AM
|- - crizh   QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 16 2009, 09:43 AM) An...   Mar 16 2009, 12:35 PM
|- - Fuchs   QUOTE (crizh @ Mar 16 2009, 01:35 PM) Cor...   Mar 16 2009, 12:39 PM
- - Fuchs   I like the karam cahnges, and I'll decide on t...   Mar 16 2009, 10:26 AM
- - knasser   Well these are quite telling results. It seems the...   Mar 16 2009, 10:51 AM
- - knasser   Post count means little. Someone with a high post ...   Mar 16 2009, 11:00 AM
- - ElFenrir   QUOTE And for the record, having played since 1st ...   Mar 16 2009, 12:20 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE Silent my bum. Correct me if I'm wrong ...   Mar 16 2009, 12:44 PM
- - Angier   Actually Adepts are not worse touched by this chan...   Mar 16 2009, 12:58 PM
|- - crizh   QUOTE (Angier @ Mar 16 2009, 12:58 PM) Ac...   Mar 16 2009, 01:06 PM
- - Critias   As far as post counts and cynicism go -- well, duh...   Mar 16 2009, 01:04 PM
|- - crizh   QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 16 2009, 01:04 PM) A...   Mar 16 2009, 01:09 PM
|- - Bull   QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 16 2009, 09:04 AM) A...   Mar 16 2009, 01:28 PM
- - Fuchs   I disagree with the notion that a game company sho...   Mar 16 2009, 01:36 PM
- - hermit   Yes, brutally dismissing the old times, like Lonsi...   Mar 16 2009, 01:42 PM
|- - Demonseed Elite   QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 16 2009, 09:42 AM) Ye...   Mar 16 2009, 02:20 PM
|- - Fuchs   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Mar 16 2009, 03...   Mar 16 2009, 02:22 PM
- - Prime Mover   I think the poll speaks pretty clearly here. If y...   Mar 16 2009, 01:45 PM
- - bluedragon7   Regarding play-age vs postcount I played SR since ...   Mar 16 2009, 02:04 PM
|- - crizh   QUOTE (bluedragon7 @ Mar 16 2009, 02:04 P...   Mar 16 2009, 02:11 PM
|- - bluedragon7   QUOTE (crizh @ Mar 16 2009, 03:11 PM) Can...   Mar 16 2009, 02:36 PM
|- - crizh   QUOTE (bluedragon7 @ Mar 16 2009, 02:36 P...   Mar 16 2009, 02:44 PM
- - crizh   On the contrary I think the poll clearly indicates...   Mar 16 2009, 02:08 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE I have been supporting Fanpro with official ...   Mar 16 2009, 02:15 PM
- - DireRadiant   When polling, you must always consider how your sa...   Mar 16 2009, 02:16 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE Well, Catalyst hardly brutally dismisses old...   Mar 16 2009, 02:31 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE the same as here, did not post that much the...   Mar 16 2009, 02:49 PM
- - bluedragon7   No, i recomment the change and want to leave it as...   Mar 16 2009, 02:56 PM
|- - crizh   QUOTE (bluedragon7 @ Mar 16 2009, 02:56 P...   Mar 16 2009, 03:22 PM
- - bluedragon7   No, i am just fine if the full range of up to 11 i...   Mar 16 2009, 03:42 PM
- - Roy Fokker   QUOTE (crizh @ Mar 14 2009, 08:47 AM) Man...   Mar 16 2009, 04:13 PM
|- - crizh   QUOTE (Roy Fokker @ Mar 16 2009, 04:13 PM...   Mar 16 2009, 05:38 PM
- - Draco18s   We forgot a poll on the Device Rating. I do howev...   Mar 16 2009, 06:02 PM
- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (Angier @ Mar 16 2009, 05:58 AM) Ac...   Mar 16 2009, 06:10 PM
- - Critias   I'm not saying a game company shouldn't ca...   Mar 16 2009, 09:26 PM
- - Ayeohx   Wow Crit, not only are you an excellent wordsmith ...   Mar 17 2009, 04:02 AM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Ayeohx @ Mar 17 2009, 12:02 AM) Wo...   Mar 17 2009, 04:11 AM
- - tete   Magic Changes I picked other because I am still u...   Mar 17 2009, 04:53 AM
- - toturi   I voted Other. Because I do not yet have the book...   Mar 17 2009, 05:08 AM
- - Cardul   *looks at Critias' well crafted posts* OK, so...   Mar 17 2009, 09:25 AM
- - Muspellsheimr   Except that many agree it should have been changed...   Mar 17 2009, 09:35 AM
- - Angier   It is rather idle to argue about what anyone bette...   Mar 17 2009, 09:55 AM
- - Fuchs   "Low post count" does not equal "ne...   Mar 17 2009, 10:02 AM
|- - Cardul   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Mar 17 2009, 05:02 AM) ...   Mar 17 2009, 10:22 AM
|- - NockerGeek   QUOTE (Fuchs @ Mar 17 2009, 04:02 AM) ...   Mar 17 2009, 02:39 PM
- - ornot   i've not read the new rules yet, although they...   Mar 17 2009, 10:36 AM
- - hermit   QUOTE In regards to the opinion of newer players -...   Mar 17 2009, 10:55 AM
- - Angier   besides that - older players could be done with th...   Mar 17 2009, 01:22 PM
- - Hankinstien   Two cents from a newbie -- I just started playin...   Mar 17 2009, 02:04 PM
- - InfinityzeN   Karma cost for Attributes? Yes I agree with the c...   Mar 17 2009, 02:55 PM
- - knasser   "Leave as is" still seems to be ahead in...   Mar 17 2009, 03:20 PM
- - crizh   I'm sorry I brought it up. It was really only...   Mar 17 2009, 04:19 PM
- - Doc Byte   I could live much better with the new attribute co...   Mar 17 2009, 04:43 PM
- - crizh   The Hivemind thing is definitely a problem and it ...   Mar 17 2009, 06:26 PM
- - ornot   it prolly includes null votes.   Mar 17 2009, 06:35 PM
- - jago668   The easiest way to sum up my opinion is this. I w...   Mar 17 2009, 08:39 PM
- - Ragewind   Seeing the Direct Combat spells change left a bad ...   Mar 17 2009, 11:17 PM
- - Cain   The pool is poorly-written. The first option is: ...   Mar 18 2009, 01:50 AM
- - The Jake   All, I am not seeing an errata. Do I have to buy ...   Mar 18 2009, 02:18 AM
- - Muspellsheimr   It will be released as Errata sometime in the near...   Mar 18 2009, 02:35 AM
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