Mar 20 2009, 11:08 PM
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Old Man of the North ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,524 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
In several threads, people are arguing that the OR changes in SR4A make Illusion spells that affect objects unusable. Examples given to support this argument often use a dicepool of 14, saying this dicepool has a roughly 50% chance to affect OR 4, and is out to lunch for OR 6.
This would appear to be based on the idea that 14 dice X the 1/3 chance for each die comes up with 4 and a bit. I think this is seen as being halfway, as people say "on average, 4 hits". I thought about this a bit and figured people are not taking into account all the possible outcomes better than 4 hits. I wasn't sure of the math, so I asked a mathematician on Allexperts.com for a formula for "n dice needing at least h hits". He came back with three methods for calculating the answer. I am still communicating with him, as the first and third methods given currently (as of this posting) use 1/6 rather than 1/3, but I used the second method (long and tedious!) to come up with the following: Dice pool of 14: 4 hits or better: 73.88 % 6 hits or better: 31.02 % My conclusion from this? Illusion spells are NOT being nerfed/jerked around/made useless by the SR4A OR changes. They HAVE gone from near infallibility to being effective against even THE WORST STUFF almost one third of the time. PS. I am extrapolating that the dice pool 18+ characters will still be in the 75% range for OR 6. EDIT: This arithmetic applies to all spells' dice pools by the way. |
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pbangarth Bad statistics make a weak argument Mar 20 2009, 11:08 PM
Draco18s After much head banging and trying to remember my ... Mar 20 2009, 11:52 PM
AllTheNothing QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 21 2009, 12:52 AM) ... Mar 21 2009, 11:45 AM
Draco18s QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 21 2009, 06:45... Mar 21 2009, 01:34 PM
Demerzel QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 21 2009, 06:34 AM) ... Mar 21 2009, 02:29 PM
Draco18s QUOTE (Demerzel @ Mar 21 2009, 09:29 AM) ... Mar 22 2009, 02:27 AM
BlueMax I think you are both wrong. The chance of success... Mar 21 2009, 12:04 AM
Shinobi Killfist QUOTE (BlueMax @ Mar 20 2009, 07:04 PM) I... Mar 21 2009, 02:35 AM
Demerzel Boy, I wish I still had the PDFs I made of the pro... Mar 21 2009, 12:15 AM
Draco18s Just a quick note:
DP 12:
26.97% for 4
7.89% for ... Mar 21 2009, 12:28 AM
Werewindlefr QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 20 2009, 07:08 PM)... Mar 21 2009, 03:21 AM
pbangarth QUOTE (Werewindlefr @ Mar 20 2009, 08:21 ... Mar 21 2009, 03:43 AM
Werewindlefr QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 20 2009, 11:43 PM)... Mar 21 2009, 04:54 AM
Malicant QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 21 2009, 04:43 AM)... Mar 21 2009, 01:24 PM
Jaid QUOTE (Malicant @ Mar 21 2009, 08:24 AM) ... Mar 21 2009, 08:18 PM
Malicant QUOTE (Jaid @ Mar 21 2009, 09:18 PM) magi... Mar 22 2009, 12:57 PM
suppenhuhn If i remember correctly 400 BP characters are supp... Mar 21 2009, 03:42 AM
pbangarth QUOTE (suppenhuhn @ Mar 20 2009, 08:42 PM... Mar 21 2009, 03:49 AM
suppenhuhn QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 21 2009, 04:49 AM)... Mar 21 2009, 04:12 AM
pbangarth QUOTE (suppenhuhn @ Mar 20 2009, 10:12 PM... Mar 21 2009, 04:19 AM
Zurai QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 20 2009, 11:19 PM)... Mar 21 2009, 04:23 AM
suppenhuhn QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 21 2009, 05:19 AM)... Mar 21 2009, 05:06 AM
Mordinvan QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 20 2009, 10:19 PM)... Mar 21 2009, 06:28 AM
Demerzel 6 dice attack against 4 dice defense gets 1 or mor... Mar 21 2009, 04:55 AM
Zurai Not to mention he'd be forced to max-overcast ... Mar 21 2009, 06:46 AM
Cain QUOTE (Zurai @ Mar 20 2009, 11:46 PM) Not... Mar 21 2009, 07:17 AM
Zurai QUOTE (Cain @ Mar 21 2009, 02:17 AM) Well... Mar 21 2009, 07:30 AM
Cain QUOTE (Zurai @ Mar 21 2009, 12:30 AM) Edg... Mar 21 2009, 07:45 AM
Zurai QUOTE (Cain @ Mar 21 2009, 03:45 AM) I do... Mar 21 2009, 05:37 PM
Ryu Feshy has written something very useful for SR sta... Mar 21 2009, 09:33 AM
Rotbart van Dainig QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 21 2009, 12:08 AM)... Mar 21 2009, 12:55 PM
pbangarth Yes, I used a method including binomial distributi... Mar 21 2009, 04:26 PM
GrafZhL For everyone who is still interested in probabilit... Mar 21 2009, 08:49 PM
knasser QUOTE (GrafZhL @ Mar 21 2009, 08:49 PM) F... Mar 21 2009, 08:53 PM
AllTheNothing QUOTE (GrafZhL @ Mar 21 2009, 09:49 PM) F... Mar 21 2009, 10:17 PM
knasser How did we get to 14 dice being sufficient? Even i... Mar 21 2009, 08:52 PM
Demerzel QUOTE (knasser @ Mar 21 2009, 12:52 PM) H... Mar 21 2009, 09:11 PM
The Mack QUOTE (knasser @ Mar 22 2009, 05:52 AM) H... Mar 22 2009, 10:15 AM
Mr. Unpronounceable You missed step 2.5: if mage takes more than a box... Mar 21 2009, 09:18 PM
Demerzel QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable @ Mar 21 2009, 02... Mar 22 2009, 04:48 AM
knasser Mr. Unpronouncable beat me to it, but yes - drain ... Mar 21 2009, 10:00 PM
AllTheNothing QUOTE (knasser @ Mar 21 2009, 11:00 PM) M... Mar 21 2009, 10:51 PM
Shinobi Killfist another factor in the OR 6 thing to work into your... Mar 21 2009, 10:59 PM
pbangarth OK, so I had to check through a selection of posts... Mar 22 2009, 04:19 AM
Zurai QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 21 2009, 11:19 PM)... Mar 22 2009, 05:06 AM

Draco18s QUOTE (Zurai @ Mar 22 2009, 12:06 AM) I... Mar 22 2009, 05:43 AM

knasser QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 22 2009, 05:43 AM) ... Mar 22 2009, 09:24 AM

Zormal QUOTE (knasser @ Mar 22 2009, 11:24 AM) I... Mar 22 2009, 12:38 PM

The Mack QUOTE (knasser @ Mar 22 2009, 06:24 PM) I... Mar 22 2009, 02:01 PM


knasser QUOTE (The Mack @ Mar 22 2009, 02:01 PM) ... Mar 22 2009, 02:26 PM

pbangarth QUOTE (knasser @ Mar 22 2009, 03:24 AM) I... Mar 22 2009, 06:27 PM

knasser QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 22 2009, 06:27 PM)... Mar 22 2009, 07:49 PM
Ryu One interesting fact for the discussion at hand is... Mar 22 2009, 11:08 AM
Tunnel Rat Actually, instead of calculating out the dice pool... Mar 22 2009, 08:54 AM
Draco18s What are their dice pools? Mar 22 2009, 09:07 AM
GrafZhL Combat mage
Magic: 5
Edge: 2
Spellcasting: 5
Both,... Mar 22 2009, 09:24 AM
knasser Nice idea. Using your own probability calculator, ... Mar 22 2009, 09:45 AM
suppenhuhn Ignite really isn't nerfed that much by the ne... Mar 22 2009, 02:32 PM
knasser QUOTE (suppenhuhn @ Mar 22 2009, 02:32 PM... Mar 22 2009, 02:34 PM
The Mack QUOTE (knasser @ Mar 22 2009, 11:34 PM) A... Mar 22 2009, 02:42 PM
knasser QUOTE (The Mack @ Mar 22 2009, 02:42 PM) ... Mar 22 2009, 03:05 PM
AllTheNothing QUOTE (knasser @ Mar 22 2009, 04:05 PM) H... Mar 22 2009, 03:39 PM
Malicant Female guards using this... technique could be ver... Mar 22 2009, 04:24 PM
pbangarth I don't even know if this is a 'fix' a... Mar 22 2009, 08:03 PM
knasser QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 22 2009, 08:03 PM)... Mar 22 2009, 08:11 PM![]() ![]() |
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