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> Protecting your guards from the all-powerful manabolt, Since the other thread went to hell...
Octopiii
post Jun 13 2009, 10:07 PM
Post #1


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It's been brought up many times in the Thread That Shall Not Be Named and others of its ilk about how "broken" direct combat spells can be if used against mundanes. I, personally, don't see the problem. There are a lot of ways for a corporation to minimize the risk that a Mage will show up and annihilate their security:

1. Drones

Drones now require a threshold of 5 to affect in SR4A. That requires, on average 15 dice on your spellcasting roll, and the use of Physical spells. It is still quite doable for a starting mage, but it is not a gimme, and requires some specialization on the mage's part, to the detriment of other areas of expertise. Railguns, Steel Lynxes, and embedded turrets make formidable opponents for a mage, and importantly from the corporation's perspective, they are cheap. They can spend the minimal upfront costs to acquire technological defenses, and then either contract out to a security firm to have a Spider on standby, ready to jump in should an alert be sounded, or important facilities can have their own dedicated Spider.

2. Tactics

It's been said many a time, minimal tactics can negate a mages ability to screw you by limiting LOS. There are a lot of options here, limited only by your creativity: Have them take cover, fire smoke grenades to limit visibility, have one member of the response team engage in suppressive fire while the other members attempt to flank the team. Thermal smoke + suppressive fire usually will keep a mage from doing anything resembling an "I Win!" button. Tying in with drones, an automated drone may have a crap dice pool, but suppressive fire will still keep the mage from popping his head out - many mages have poor Edge attributes due to the demands of their build, so suppressive fire is an excellent method of keeping them in their place. And of course, never forget grenades - gas grenades in particular can be effective, as they linger. Also, having guards in personal mobility vehicles with tinted windows and a weapon mount becomes a fairly simple and effective "F U" to a mage with only mana based spells, as it completely removes LOS. Finally, one way glass is cheap, and again, effective.

3. Manatech

Street Magic and Arsenal features ways for mundanes to prevent being ambushed from the astral. Awakened Ivy, Haven Lilys, Guardian Vines, and FAB aerosol sprays can prevent a mage from Astrally Projecting into a middle of a group of guards - the better to keep them from dropping a summoned spirit on them while staying safe in the Astral. Biofiber can be used for a cheap Ward - the initial upfront costs can be expensive, but long term maintenance is cheaper than constantly contracting out with a magical security firm to continually renew a ward. Additionally, facilities can be built underground to protect against astral intrusion - the earth acts as a barrier to Astral forms.

4. Magic Security Firms

Magic counters magic, but you don't need a wagemage sitting around every facility waiting for that rare enemy mage to show up and make his life interesting. Magical security can be contracted out on a sliding scale: for a minimum rate you can have your facility warded for a few weeks. Next, we can have the off-site security mage loan a service from his bound spirit to the captain of the security team upon receiving an alarm call: remember also, that certain spirits from Street Magic have Magical Guard, which gives them the ability to provide counterspelling to a team, in addition to a spirits other powers. Moving up, we can secure a mage who will show up to the area in the astral when the alarm is sounded, manifest, and use his counterspelling ability on corporate security (with his own spiritual back up to protect him should the runners try to take the mage out in astral combat). On the next step up in the pricing scale, the contract Mage can show up astrally as above, but actually order his spirit(s) into combat.

5. Dedicated Facility Mages

Finally, we can have the dedicated facility mage for those really secure locations - this state seems to be the only method some posters believe is effective in countering magical aggression. Even then, a security mage doesn't have to be super good to be effective in limiting enemy mages. A mage focused on defense is going to specialize in different areas than a runner mage: Counterspelling, banishing, bound spiritual back up, and "boosts" to his security team are more effective uses of a rare and expensive asset than having him sit in a corridor, slinging spells, and potentially getting shot. A dedicated Counterspeller can really put the kibosh on a lot of things: Counterspelling 6 + Combat Specialization 2 + Mentor Spirit 2 + Counterspelling Foci (combat) 3 = 13 dice added to willpower scores for combat spells, or 8 for other types. The nice thing about a dedicated counterspeller is that even the crappiest, barely magical of mages (or mystic adepts) can be a ferocious magical defender, as counterspelling does not utilize the magic attribute. This makes the dedicated counterspeller relatively cheaper, more available, and still effective addition to a security team than the Super-Mage with Mighty Spirits that many GMs likely default to in order to challenge their players.

As you can see, there are a lot of ways the a facility can cheaply and realistically protect themselves from being ganked by a runner team, without having to pull out an equally powerful mage every other run just to keep your player's magical assets challenged. Comments? Tips? "You suck and your suggestions will never work!" advice? I welcome them all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edit: Incorporated HappyDaze's suggestion to number 4 (loaned services), because it was good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
Edit 2: Added Jaid's suggestion re: PMV's and LOS to number 2. Added W@gemage's point about one way glass to number 2.
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Posts in this topic
- Octopiii   Protecting your guards from the all-powerful manabolt   Jun 13 2009, 10:07 PM
- - HappyDaze   On point #5, don't forget that certain spirits...   Jun 13 2009, 10:11 PM
- - kzt   Most of the tactics don't really work well in ...   Jun 13 2009, 10:28 PM
- - Kerenshara   The whole "spirit" related protection as...   Jun 13 2009, 10:30 PM
- - Octopiii   QUOTE Most of the tactics don't really work we...   Jun 13 2009, 10:33 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Octopiii @ Jun 13 2009, 03:33 PM) ...   Jun 13 2009, 10:41 PM
- - Octopiii   I edited an argument re: noticing spells, but it m...   Jun 13 2009, 10:46 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Octopiii @ Jun 13 2009, 03:46 PM) ...   Jun 14 2009, 12:39 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE The whole "spirit" related protect...   Jun 13 2009, 11:04 PM
- - Stahlseele   Combined Spell-Anchors? One with detection Spell t...   Jun 13 2009, 11:07 PM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE Nothing Magical will work as intended anymor...   Jun 13 2009, 11:14 PM
- - Stahlseele   Yeah, but right now, it seems to be that Guards sh...   Jun 13 2009, 11:19 PM
- - Cain   The problem here is that the security setup descri...   Jun 14 2009, 05:38 AM
|- - Matsci   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 13 2009, 10:38 PM) For ...   Jun 14 2009, 06:51 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Matsci @ Jun 13 2009, 11:51 PM) Th...   Jun 14 2009, 06:59 AM
|- - Matsci   QUOTE (kzt @ Jun 13 2009, 11:59 PM) Perha...   Jun 14 2009, 07:02 AM
- - Meatbag   Magic can't be sensed by cameras, no, that...   Jun 14 2009, 06:35 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE In the middle of a rating 3 background count...   Jun 14 2009, 07:26 AM
|- - Matsci   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 14 2009, 12:26 AM) We...   Jun 14 2009, 07:51 AM
|- - Octopiii   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 13 2009, 11:26 PM) Don...   Jun 14 2009, 10:01 PM
|- - Larme   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 14 2009, 02:26 AM) We...   Jun 15 2009, 04:40 AM
|- - The Jake   QUOTE (Larme @ Jun 15 2009, 05:40 AM) Lol...   Jun 15 2009, 04:59 AM
- - Bob Lord of Evil   Layer your security and don't limit yourself t...   Jun 14 2009, 10:51 AM
|- - Kerenshara   QUOTE (Bob Lord of Evil @ Jun 14 2009, 05...   Jun 14 2009, 11:12 PM
- - kzt   We never run long running fights like that. If yo...   Jun 14 2009, 03:20 PM
- - Octopiii   QUOTE The problem here is that the security setup ...   Jun 14 2009, 10:14 PM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (Octopiii @ Jun 14 2009, 02:14 PM) ...   Jun 15 2009, 01:08 AM
||- - kzt   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 14 2009, 06:08 PM) Judg...   Jun 15 2009, 01:50 AM
|||- - Octopiii   QUOTE (kzt @ Jun 14 2009, 06:50 PM) If th...   Jun 15 2009, 06:55 AM
||- - The Jake   Assuming background count of 3, Magic Rating of 9 ...   Jun 15 2009, 02:10 AM
||- - Octopiii   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 14 2009, 06:08 PM) Judg...   Jun 15 2009, 06:38 AM
|- - The Jake   QUOTE (Octopiii @ Jun 14 2009, 11:14 PM) ...   Jun 15 2009, 02:07 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE those types tend to not be as good at the ac...   Jun 15 2009, 01:35 AM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Jun 14 2009, 07:35 PM)...   Jun 15 2009, 01:42 AM
- - HappyDaze   Our groups current magician is a Wiccan with Great...   Jun 15 2009, 01:46 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE If the rigger at an off-site location can ta...   Jun 15 2009, 01:53 AM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Jun 14 2009, 05:53 PM)...   Jun 15 2009, 02:06 AM
- - kzt   "I'm from ATT and am here to check on a t...   Jun 15 2009, 02:05 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE I don't make a habit of memorising spiri...   Jun 15 2009, 02:31 AM
|- - The Jake   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 15 2009, 03:31 AM) Sinc...   Jun 15 2009, 03:02 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE I don't think Shamans have any, either. ...   Jun 15 2009, 04:17 AM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Jun 14 2009, 08:17 PM)...   Jun 15 2009, 04:27 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE While the Native American variant would be l...   Jun 15 2009, 04:50 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE The more you talk about your SR4 experiences...   Jun 15 2009, 05:12 AM
|- - Larme   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 15 2009, 12:12 AM) I wa...   Jun 15 2009, 05:39 AM
||- - Cain   QUOTE (Larme @ Jun 14 2009, 09:39 PM) You...   Jun 15 2009, 06:19 AM
||- - Mäx   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 15 2009, 09:19 AM) I se...   Jun 15 2009, 02:33 PM
|- - The Jake   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 15 2009, 06:12 AM) I wa...   Jun 15 2009, 06:26 AM
- - Blade   Three things I'd add: * Wards: not only do t...   Jun 15 2009, 10:21 AM
- - crizh   Ballistic Shields + Gel Packs + Force 10 FAB II D...   Jun 15 2009, 11:34 AM
- - Blade   I might be mistaken, but I don't remember that...   Jun 15 2009, 11:48 AM
|- - crizh   QUOTE (Blade @ Jun 15 2009, 12:48 PM) I m...   Jun 15 2009, 01:42 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE Cain, how did your guys handle the Yama King...   Jun 15 2009, 01:00 PM
|- - Blade   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 15 2009, 03:00 PM) Astr...   Jun 15 2009, 01:22 PM
|- - The Jake   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 15 2009, 02:00 PM) Astr...   Jun 15 2009, 02:13 PM
||- - kzt   QUOTE (The Jake @ Jun 15 2009, 07:13 AM) ...   Jun 15 2009, 08:23 PM
|- - Octopiii   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 15 2009, 06:00 AM) That...   Jun 15 2009, 07:38 PM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE It's safer and more effective to use lon...   Jun 15 2009, 01:06 PM
- - HappyDaze   A higher-powered option involves the use of Invoki...   Jun 15 2009, 01:10 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Jun 15 2009, 05:06 AM)...   Jun 15 2009, 01:44 PM
|- - Blade   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 15 2009, 03:44 PM) Most...   Jun 15 2009, 04:31 PM
|- - easl   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 15 2009, 02:44 PM) Most...   Jun 15 2009, 07:46 PM
- - Chibu   You people and your mana static. My (magically act...   Jun 15 2009, 02:30 PM
- - DireRadiant   Get more guards. Give them more guns. Hard to run ...   Jun 15 2009, 02:55 PM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE So far, I've seen effective methods, but...   Jun 15 2009, 03:03 PM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE We discussed the problem with that earlier. ...   Jun 15 2009, 03:07 PM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE Most mages can't summon spirits over for...   Jun 15 2009, 03:11 PM
|- - Larme   QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Jun 15 2009, 10:11 AM)...   Jun 15 2009, 04:01 PM
- - Apathy   Cain - While I have Ghost Cartels, I don't hav...   Jun 15 2009, 04:36 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE This reminds me: can an astrally projecting ...   Jun 15 2009, 06:31 PM
|- - Apathy   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 15 2009, 02:31 PM) The ...   Jun 15 2009, 08:24 PM
|- - knasser   QUOTE (Apathy @ Jun 15 2009, 09:24 PM) [D...   Jun 15 2009, 09:39 PM
|- - Malachi   QUOTE (knasser @ Jun 15 2009, 03:39 PM) I...   Jun 15 2009, 10:42 PM
|- - Octopiii   QUOTE (knasser @ Jun 15 2009, 01:39 PM) E...   Jun 15 2009, 11:45 PM
- - Traul   Why does everybody want to send spirits on patrols...   Jun 15 2009, 07:34 PM
|- - Octopiii   QUOTE (Traul @ Jun 15 2009, 12:34 PM) Why...   Jun 15 2009, 07:44 PM
|- - knasser   QUOTE (Traul @ Jun 15 2009, 08:34 PM) Why...   Jun 15 2009, 09:23 PM
|- - Traul   QUOTE We've been talking as if mages and spiri...   Jun 15 2009, 10:25 PM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (Traul @ Jun 15 2009, 05:25 PM) Wou...   Jun 15 2009, 11:57 PM
|- - knasser   QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 16 2009, 12:57 AM) does...   Jun 16 2009, 05:56 AM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (knasser @ Jun 16 2009, 12:56 AM) W...   Jun 16 2009, 06:18 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 15 2009, 11:18 PM) not ...   Jun 16 2009, 06:41 AM
- - nezumi   In reply to the original post, I've drawn on r...   Jun 15 2009, 07:41 PM
- - Dumori   The lack of sense may come form the fact thee are ...   Jun 15 2009, 09:19 PM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE That requires materialization, like a real s...   Jun 15 2009, 11:42 PM
|- - Octopiii   QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Jun 15 2009, 03:42 PM)...   Jun 15 2009, 11:46 PM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE I had not noticed that. That is vicious...   Jun 15 2009, 11:48 PM
- - Falconer   That's one hell of a nasty idea... grant the m...   Jun 16 2009, 12:24 AM
- - Cain   QUOTE I think what you're asking for is cheap ...   Jun 16 2009, 12:38 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE doesn't much matter. at sundown/sunrise,...   Jun 16 2009, 04:04 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE And again, magicians who can Invoke are expe...   Jun 16 2009, 04:10 AM
- - Cain   Magicians are rare. Only 1 in 100 people show mag...   Jun 16 2009, 04:45 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE Mages are expensive. There's no way arou...   Jun 16 2009, 05:25 AM
- - Cain   However, because of supply and demand, there's...   Jun 16 2009, 05:36 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE you just need to keep an eye out for where t...   Jun 16 2009, 07:33 AM
- - HappyDaze   QUOTE That means, no invoking on overcast spirits,...   Jun 16 2009, 07:42 AM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Jun 15 2009, 11:42 PM)...   Jun 16 2009, 05:31 PM
|- - knasser   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 16 2009, 06:31 PM) And ...   Jun 16 2009, 05:43 PM
- - Blade   I still don't see how more difficult/expensive...   Jun 16 2009, 09:54 AM
- - AngelisStorm   If you're limiting the amount of room which ca...   Jun 16 2009, 10:48 AM
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