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> Thoughts about Vice, surprised nobody else has gotten to this yet...
Jaid
post Dec 27 2009, 03:36 AM
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the bad: vice is a little bit sloppy on the editing in a few places. there's a few repeating paragraphs (i can recall noticing 2, specifically, where it repeated the entire paragraph) a reference to page "XX", a few places where it said something along the lines of "it isn't <something>, it's <the same something>", and such, getting names mixed up. also, there's a place where it talks about lone star being the police force in seattle when the context places it after the switch to KE as law enforcement.

also, there is an abrupt change from shadowposts intermixed with shadowtalk to "this is OOC RPG book material" with no notice that felt really out of place...

the good: overall, it reads well. apart from the stuff i mentioned above, the editing is pretty solid, the material is laid out in a fairly orderly manner. i didn't notice much in the way of internally inconsistent comments, and we get a hint about what happened to dragonslayer (an old shadowtalker who didn't make it to 4th, for those who don't know). since i haven't noticed any previews (i expect that will change eventually though) i'll give you a chapter-by-chapter summary.

Crime Pays: starts off with the basics about different kinds of crimes; what they are, how they're done, and most have a "do-it-yourself" column attached to them to give you an idea of how it might work on a small scale. It then goes on into a discussion of the major syndicates; the mafia, the triads, the yakuza, the vory, and the ghost cartels, each with a specific example of the organisation structure in addition to generalised information. specifics about certain branches are sparse, if they are even present at all; this is not a detailed breakdown of crime syndicates in seattle or denver or any other city, it's more of a worldwide overview.

Ethnic Syndicates: discusses specific organised crime groups that are not quite as global as the above. for those who missed them above, this includes the seoulpa rings (including a few specifics about the komun'go; for those of you who have emergence, but don't plan to pick up vice, the short version is that they're still around, including Kaz Yakamura, so far as the shadows know, but that the yakuza are now aware of their existence and would be very busy killing them if they weren't so busy having a war with the mafia. the komun'go have lots of cash, but little manpower, and are likely to be hiring a lot of independants as we as trying to expand their numbers, of course). it also includes the koshari (for those who used the old denver missions extensively, this may be useful but is not required), the fanti pirates (off the coast of africa), the zobop (caribbean area, basically voodoo organised crime groups), the kabul maffiya (afghanistan region), and the grey wolves (turkey, greece, the balkans; parts of europe and the middle east, basically).

Gangs: starts with an overview of the relative power of certain gangs, split into three tiers. tier one is basically international gangs. tier two is large gangs that are not international. tier three are the rest of them. again, this is a global look at gangs, not for a specific city. it then talks about specific gangs as examples of the various tiers; tier one includes the Ancients, Comando Verde (mostly based in metropole), Chaos Engine (a matrix gang), the Yardies (london and parts of europe) and the cutters (added by someone other than the main shadowposter). tier two includes the Ardientes (Los Angeles), the Vikings (scandinavia), the Cocotona (Aztlan), the Numbers gang (mostly prison-based gang in Azania), and the First Nations (seattle gang, allied with the komun'go). Third tier covers a lot of gangs, mostly by type; go-gangs, matrix gangs, turf gangs, wizzer gangs, theme gangs, etc. specific examples are given, mostly not very in-depth, which i won't specify here.

Other Outfits: basically non-syndicate organisations that are more specialised. specifically discusses organleggers (there are 3 major organisations worldwide, by the way), crackers, fences (who apparently have a global VPN sorta thing going on), and a few smaller players (babel network; ID forgers, caduceus; street docs, chimera; assassins, hubbard's crew; kidnap and ransom, in-secure; security company that hires shadowrunners to test defenses, ya'mas; small-scale rogue military group, bang & stick; weapons trafficking, and technitions; distractions.

Dangerous Minds: dealing with independants. the only ones you're likely to recognise are Kane, and Netcat adds in Slamm-O (in a rather non-complementary manner, of course). Teachdaire sounds familiar from somewhere (a specially-invited shadowtalker? maybe in fiction somewhere?) and snowbird is also on the list, and is one of the shadowtalkers for the vice book.

The Law: basically discussing crime and related punishments, and how they can vary from place to place. specifically talks about extraterritoriality and what that means for the average 'runner. also discusses various law enforcement organisations, including lone star, knight errant, wolverine, and the PCC police, scotland yard, and the neotokyo police.

Game Information: frustratingly, there is not so much as a chapter heading for this chapter. one moment, you're reading about cooperation and lack thereof between different law enforcement agencies, and then on the next page it's suddenly no more shadowtalk, just an abrupt transition to giving advice about how to incorporate the material in the book. while it's handy to have, some sort of visible separation beyond the sudden change in tone of writing would be nice. this is the only chapter not to include a short story at the start of it, though it's hard to know if that's deliberate or not (it would make sense, since it's hard to write a piece of fiction dealing with incorporating the setting information into your specific games; but on the other hand, it could just have wound up in the same place as the chapter heading).

also, there is no index in the PDF as far as i can tell; presumably, there will not be one in the book either.
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Posts in this topic
- Jaid   Thoughts about Vice   Dec 27 2009, 03:36 AM
- - hahnsoo   Teachdaire's old school entry is in "Prim...   Dec 27 2009, 03:42 AM
- - Mercer   Yeah. I had an old GM who treated "Prime Run...   Dec 27 2009, 04:10 AM
- - Starglyte   Thanks for the overview. Waiting for my books to a...   Dec 27 2009, 04:10 AM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (Starglyte @ Dec 26 2009, 11:10 PM)...   Dec 27 2009, 07:19 AM
|- - Starglyte   QUOTE (Jaid @ Dec 27 2009, 01:19 AM) not ...   Dec 27 2009, 03:58 PM
- - Aaron   The Game Information chapter had a vignette in fro...   Dec 27 2009, 03:32 PM
- - Adam   The Game Info chapter lacks fiction for space conc...   Dec 27 2009, 06:23 PM
- - Ancient History   Ah, man. I was gonna kill Teachedaire and let the ...   Dec 27 2009, 09:50 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   They surely can invest those 24 karma into somethi...   Dec 27 2009, 09:56 PM
- - BookWyrm   So....I should wait until the print version comes ...   Dec 27 2009, 10:29 PM
|- - Adam   QUOTE (BookWyrm @ Dec 27 2009, 06:29 PM) ...   Dec 28 2009, 02:12 AM
- - Method   Ah good ol' Teachedaire. He was probably my f...   Dec 27 2009, 10:47 PM
- - Jaid   hmmm... ok, i'm having a little trouble tracki...   Dec 28 2009, 04:12 AM
- - Adam   Exactly -- it was either nip and tuck, or expand o...   Dec 28 2009, 04:35 AM
- - Adam   And ... there will be a revised Vice PDF, probably...   Dec 28 2009, 05:09 AM
|- - Cardul   QUOTE (Adam @ Dec 28 2009, 01:09 AM) And ...   Dec 28 2009, 12:14 PM
|- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Adam @ Dec 28 2009, 07:09 AM) And ...   Dec 28 2009, 09:46 PM
- - Fuchs   Possible Kane got his girl out from the Aztlan ...   Dec 28 2009, 09:43 AM
- - Casper   What sort of crunch has been included in the book?   Dec 28 2009, 10:33 AM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (Casper @ Dec 28 2009, 05:33 AM) Wh...   Dec 28 2009, 05:43 PM
- - Adam   Yes. Could my post have been made more clear?   Dec 28 2009, 01:06 PM
|- - Cardul   QUOTE (Adam @ Dec 28 2009, 09:06 AM) Yes....   Dec 30 2009, 02:25 AM
- - Zen Shooter01   I haven't found any crunch, either, and I like...   Dec 28 2009, 09:09 PM
- - Nomad   Overall, a worthwhile read. I especially enjoyed ...   Dec 29 2009, 07:30 PM
- - Ancient History   I know that feeling. (New episodes soon!)   Dec 29 2009, 07:33 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   So, how about that "probably" part?   Jan 11 2010, 12:19 PM
- - Ophis   Dang! Teachdaire got killed in my campaign... ...   Jan 11 2010, 09:14 PM
|- - Prime Mover   QUOTE (Ophis @ Jan 11 2010, 04:14 PM) Dan...   Jan 20 2010, 07:13 PM
- - Adam   After some "fun" juggling files, Vice is...   Jan 19 2010, 12:21 AM
|- - Wesley Street   QUOTE (Adam @ Jan 18 2010, 07:21 PM) BTW,...   Jan 19 2010, 07:39 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Thx. Personally, I simply forgot to - and you can...   Jan 19 2010, 06:28 PM
|- - Fuchs   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jan 19 2010, 07...   Jan 20 2010, 09:14 AM
- - Omenowl   I try to tick it when I remember. I got caught on...   Jan 20 2010, 12:15 AM
- - Adam   If you want the update, drop Troy a line at quarte...   Jan 20 2010, 12:18 AM
- - Tycho   in the battlecorps shop you can simbly go to your ...   Jan 20 2010, 12:26 PM
- - martindv   Hm... So I'm looking at the sample on DriveThr...   Jan 22 2010, 12:10 AM
- - Ancient History   Had to go back and read your thread, but I think I...   Jan 22 2010, 01:07 AM
- - martindv   Well, I was trying to emphasize the mindset and wo...   Jan 25 2010, 09:04 PM
- - Adam   We will, of course, post some more samples of Vice...   Jan 25 2010, 11:02 PM
- - hahnsoo   The great thing about Vice is the scope. It cover...   Jan 26 2010, 03:50 AM


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