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> The question of stealth, (some GMing questions I'd like my players not to read).
Fatum
post May 15 2011, 03:32 AM
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And yes, I am looking at you, you know who you are.


The following questions might seem obvious, but my group has run into trouble handling them, so I'd like some advice from GMs more experienced.
So, there are characters who are into sneaking: stealing things, setting explosives, whatever. That requires some infiltration and some teamwork on their side, and as long as only tech security with some human backup is involved, everything works fine.
Now, as soon as we throw the mages into the equation, everything gets a bit more complicated.

First, is there a way to fool detection spells like Detect Life? With the amount of detail it gives, everything a wagemage has to do is have it sustained at Extended range, and be aware of anyone entering the compound?

Second, how do you deal with spirits stealthily? With Watchers, you could at least try fooling them - say, with the team's mage placing a wall before them (but that still raises questions like "wouldn't it try to go around the wall" and "if I cover it with a dome-shaped barrier, won't the wagemage lose his connection to the watcher and feel that?"). But what about the full-fledged spirits?

Also in what comes to mages, rules state that a mage can cast as far as he can see - but a metahuman can see as far as several dozen kilometers, especially with cybereyes!

Third, sure SR4 makes hacking more streamlined, but is there a way to deal with tech security without a hacker on call and without telling everyone that you've been there? Do you just let your infiltrators roll Infiltration against the cams/guards monitoring the cams, whatever the circumstances, even with a shadowrunning traversing a typical empty office corridor under the electronic eyes?
Also, each hack means a chance to warn the security you're there - how do you handle failures when hacking on the fly?
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Posts in this topic
- Fatum   The question of stealth   May 15 2011, 03:32 AM
- - Yerameyahu   Barriers don't stop the summoner connection… i...   May 15 2011, 04:12 AM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 15 2011, 08:12 AM...   May 15 2011, 06:09 AM
|- - Udoshi   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 14 2011, 09:12 PM...   May 15 2011, 07:22 AM
- - SpellBinder   Never had it come up in a game yet, but based on t...   May 15 2011, 07:51 AM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 15 2011, 11:51 A...   May 15 2011, 05:23 PM
- - kzt   Security systems skills should be helpful to any s...   May 15 2011, 08:25 AM
- - Dakka Dakka   Don't forget, cover and infiltration works aga...   May 15 2011, 08:38 AM
|- - tagz   QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 15 2011, 09:38 A...   May 15 2011, 05:52 PM
- - TheOOB   In most facilities, a magicians detect life spell ...   May 15 2011, 09:42 AM
- - LurkerOutThere   As others have said magic is not any more fool pro...   May 15 2011, 11:27 AM
- - Makki   extensive Legwork to find out guard routes, securi...   May 15 2011, 12:44 PM
- - Yerameyahu   *shrug* I thought 'when reasonable' was pr...   May 15 2011, 01:49 PM
|- - CanadianWolverine   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 15 2011, 06:49 AM...   May 15 2011, 05:55 PM
|- - longbowrocks   QUOTE (CanadianWolverine @ May 15 2011, 09...   May 15 2011, 06:14 PM
- - Halflife   There is no reason I can think of that you need to...   May 15 2011, 05:42 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (Halflife @ May 15 2011, 09:42 PM) ...   May 15 2011, 06:11 PM
||- - Halflife   QUOTE (Fatum @ May 15 2011, 02:11 PM) Inf...   May 15 2011, 06:21 PM
|||- - longbowrocks   QUOTE (Halflife @ May 15 2011, 10:21 AM) ...   May 15 2011, 06:38 PM
|||- - Fatum   QUOTE (Halflife @ May 15 2011, 10:21 PM) ...   May 15 2011, 08:02 PM
|||- - Makki   QUOTE (Fatum @ May 15 2011, 03:02 PM) Wel...   May 15 2011, 10:16 PM
|||- - Fatum   QUOTE (Makki @ May 16 2011, 02:16 AM) at ...   May 16 2011, 12:01 AM
||- - longbowrocks   QUOTE (Fatum @ May 15 2011, 10:11 AM) Rea...   May 15 2011, 06:22 PM
||- - CanadianWolverine   QUOTE (Fatum @ May 15 2011, 11:11 AM) Uh,...   May 16 2011, 01:47 AM
||- - Fatum   QUOTE (CanadianWolverine @ May 16 2011, 05...   May 16 2011, 03:20 AM
||- - Makki   QUOTE (Fatum @ May 15 2011, 10:20 PM) Wha...   May 16 2011, 11:39 AM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Halflife @ May 15 2011, 10:42 AM) ...   May 15 2011, 11:07 PM
- - Halflife   I agree it can be annoying to let meta-knowledge s...   May 15 2011, 07:13 PM
|- - longbowrocks   QUOTE (Halflife @ May 15 2011, 11:13 AM) ...   May 15 2011, 07:34 PM
- - Yerameyahu   Fatum, the fact that you can criticize the random ...   May 15 2011, 07:39 PM
- - Yerameyahu   I'm sorry my 'reasonable' caveat was u...   May 15 2011, 08:05 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 16 2011, 12:05 AM...   May 15 2011, 08:26 PM
- - Ascalaphus   I think you can certainly attempt Infiltration aga...   May 15 2011, 09:58 PM
- - LurkerOutThere   For what it's worth in a lot of situations, es...   May 15 2011, 10:12 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ May 16 2011, 02:1...   May 16 2011, 12:06 AM
- - Yerameyahu   Agreed: Infiltration means 'taking any relevan...   May 15 2011, 10:25 PM
- - Falconer   Astral lighting and such is almost 100% opposite f...   May 15 2011, 11:57 PM
|- - TheOOB   QUOTE (Falconer @ May 15 2011, 06:57 PM) ...   May 16 2011, 12:01 AM
|- - Makki   QUOTE (TheOOB @ May 15 2011, 07:01 PM) Wh...   May 16 2011, 01:30 AM
- - Yerameyahu   Don't forget about technology. Facial recognit...   May 16 2011, 12:37 AM
- - Falconer   Yeah, I still don't see how any half-decent se...   May 16 2011, 01:27 AM
- - Falconer   I know what you mean... I couldn't ever see no...   May 16 2011, 01:59 AM
- - Yerameyahu   You have to suspend disbelief. Infiltration works...   May 16 2011, 03:24 AM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 16 2011, 07:24 AM...   May 16 2011, 06:07 PM
|- - Blog   QUOTE (Fatum @ May 16 2011, 01:07 PM) Yea...   May 16 2011, 08:27 PM
- - longbowrocks   How does this sound? make 1 infiltration check for...   May 16 2011, 03:26 AM
- - Halflife   If you are really worried about them being able to...   May 16 2011, 03:49 AM
|- - CanadianWolverine   QUOTE (Halflife @ May 15 2011, 08:49 PM) ...   May 16 2011, 05:10 AM
- - Falconer   Palming is used when you're trying to hide thi...   May 16 2011, 03:52 AM
|- - toturi   QUOTE (Falconer @ May 16 2011, 11:52 AM) ...   May 16 2011, 04:27 AM
- - Falconer   You're right, I just double checked that... a...   May 16 2011, 05:02 AM
- - Falanin   Fatum, I agree with part of your point. Solo infi...   May 16 2011, 04:15 PM
- - Fatum   QUOTE (CanadianWolverine @ May 16 2011, 09...   May 16 2011, 06:08 PM
|- - longbowrocks   QUOTE (Fatum @ May 16 2011, 10:08 AM) Yet...   May 17 2011, 05:07 AM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 17 2011, 09:07 ...   May 17 2011, 03:56 PM
- - Yerameyahu   I dunno what you're asking for, here. Magic is...   May 16 2011, 06:12 PM
- - Fatum   Haha, ok, thinking of it like that...   May 16 2011, 06:15 PM
- - Dakka Dakka   +1 to Yerameyahu's post. Asymmetric warfare co...   May 16 2011, 06:22 PM
- - sabs   This is how I see it. Hacker and Face get some ki...   May 16 2011, 06:23 PM
- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   Used this very technique (above) on Mitsuhama in o...   May 16 2011, 07:41 PM
- - Fatum   Actually, that plan has half a dozen of holes. It ...   May 16 2011, 08:24 PM
- - DireRadiant   End of the day you are rolling dice. It's a si...   May 16 2011, 09:08 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 17 2011, 01:08 A...   May 17 2011, 03:25 AM
|- - Dakka Dakka   QUOTE (Fatum @ May 17 2011, 05:25 AM) Wat...   May 17 2011, 05:44 AM
|- - DireRadiant   QUOTE (Fatum @ May 16 2011, 09:25 PM) The...   May 17 2011, 02:29 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 17 2011, 06:29 P...   May 17 2011, 04:46 PM
- - Ascalaphus   As a GM, of course you can come up with a facility...   May 16 2011, 10:19 PM
|- - Dakka Dakka   QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ May 17 2011, 12:19 AM...   May 16 2011, 10:25 PM
|- - LurkerOutThere   QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 16 2011, 05:25 P...   May 17 2011, 12:45 AM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ May 16 2011, 05:4...   May 17 2011, 02:40 AM
- - Ascalaphus   Ah, right. I just looked at the spell description,...   May 16 2011, 10:34 PM
|- - Dakka Dakka   QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ May 17 2011, 12:34 AM...   May 16 2011, 10:46 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 16 2011, 04:46 P...   May 16 2011, 10:51 PM
|- - longbowrocks   QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 16 2011, 02:46 P...   May 17 2011, 03:30 AM
- - Fyndhal   I'm playing an Infiltration based character --...   May 17 2011, 04:17 AM
|- - longbowrocks   QUOTE (Fyndhal @ May 16 2011, 08:17 PM) S...   May 17 2011, 05:08 AM
||- - Makki   QUOTE (Fyndhal @ May 17 2011, 8:17 AM)She...   May 17 2011, 01:23 PM
||- - Dakka Dakka   QUOTE (Makki @ May 17 2011, 03:23 PM) I a...   May 17 2011, 01:43 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Fyndhal @ May 16 2011, 09:17 PM) I...   May 17 2011, 05:49 AM
|- - Fyndhal   QUOTE (kzt @ May 17 2011, 12:49 AM) Thoug...   May 17 2011, 05:58 AM
|- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (kzt @ May 16 2011, 11:49 PM) Thoug...   May 17 2011, 10:25 AM
- - LurkerOutThere   That seems like a pretty reasonable explanation to...   May 17 2011, 10:46 AM
- - Ascalaphus   @Fatum: so basically, your point is that you find ...   May 17 2011, 11:52 AM
- - Makki   i am of course planing on getting a monofilament g...   May 17 2011, 01:48 PM
|- - Manunancy   QUOTE (Makki @ May 17 2011, 03:48 PM) i a...   May 17 2011, 04:52 PM
- - Dakka Dakka   Which mentor spirit does that? The Care Bear? Wel...   May 17 2011, 01:50 PM
|- - Makki   QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 17 2011, 08:50 A...   May 17 2011, 01:50 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Makki @ May 17 2011, 06:50 AM) Rat...   May 17 2011, 01:54 PM
- - Dakka Dakka   Not to tell you how to play but: QUOTE ('SR4A ...   May 17 2011, 01:55 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 17 2011, 06:55 A...   May 17 2011, 01:59 PM
- - Dakka Dakka   Hence the Stun baton or Monofilament Whip, good we...   May 17 2011, 02:04 PM
- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   WOW... That is the best explanation that I have se...   May 17 2011, 03:01 PM
|- - Halflife   QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 17 2011, 11...   May 17 2011, 03:13 PM
|- - Dakka Dakka   QUOTE (Halflife @ May 17 2011, 05:13 PM) ...   May 17 2011, 03:16 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 17 2011, 08:16 A...   May 17 2011, 03:17 PM
- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   Fatum... In the end, a real design (your goal) w...   May 17 2011, 04:56 PM
- - Fatum   Tymeaus Jalynsfein, as you can see in the thread a...   May 17 2011, 05:06 PM
- - Fyndhal   @Fatum: At this point, I'm thinking you are be...   May 17 2011, 05:23 PM
- - Fatum   QUOTE (Fyndhal @ May 17 2011, 09:23 PM) @...   May 17 2011, 05:54 PM
- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Fatum @ May 17 2011, 10:54 AM) Oka...   May 17 2011, 06:28 PM
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