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Neraph
post Sep 17 2011, 08:34 PM
Post #1


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Is Immunity to Normal Weapons (heretofore ItNW) really subject to Armor Penetration (heretofore AP)? Is this supported in the Rules As Written? Let's take a look now, shall we?

Starting from the top:
QUOTE (SR4A, page 296, Materialization, second and third sentences)
When materialized, critters may affect physical targets. Additionally, materialized critters gain Immunity to Normal Weapons.


QUOTE (SR4A, page 295, Immunity, 2-4th sentences)
The critter gains an "Armor Rating" equal to twice its Magic against that damage. The Immunity Armor is treated as "hardened" protection (see Hardened Armor, above), meaning that if the Damage Value does not exceed the Armor, then the attack automatically does no damage. Additionally, this "armor rating" is added to the damage resistance dice as normal armor.


QUOTE (SR4A, page 295, Hardened Armor, second sentence)
If the modified Damage Value of an attack does not exceed the Armor rating (modified by Armor Penetration), then it bounces harmlessly off the critter; don't even bother to make a Damage Resistance Test.


All underlined emphasis is mine.

As we can see, Materialization grants ItNW, which is treated as Hardened Armor and is specifically referenced for the rules about how to treat it (the rules are reiterated in simplicity in ItNW, but that does not overwrite the rules for Hardened Armor), and Hardened Armor is in fact affected by AP; therefore, ItNW is affected by AP. The only argument against this is "treat as" does not equal "is," but that is a very weak argument (and a semantic one).
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Posts in this topic
- Neraph   Immunity to Normal Weapons   Sep 17 2011, 08:34 PM
- - bobbaganoosh   If ItNW is "treated as" Hardened Armor, ...   Sep 17 2011, 08:45 PM
- - Neraph   Exactly my conclusion. Not Irion's, though..   Sep 17 2011, 08:49 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 17 2011, 04:49 PM) Ex...   Sep 17 2011, 09:03 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Sep 17 2011, 03:03 PM) ...   Sep 18 2011, 02:28 AM
|- - Minimax le Rouge   their is no true/false answer, because SR rules ar...   Sep 18 2011, 09:10 AM
- - bobbaganoosh   I'm glad that my current GM hasn't thrown ...   Sep 17 2011, 09:16 PM
|- - Seriously Mike   QUOTE (bobbaganoosh @ Sep 17 2011, 11:16 ...   Sep 17 2011, 09:52 PM
- - Irion   QUOTE ("hardend armor")If the modified D...   Sep 18 2011, 08:40 AM
- - Aerospider   @Irion Whilst you clearly have accomplished rules...   Sep 18 2011, 11:28 AM
- - Irion   @Aerospider QUOTE Granted the problem line in the ...   Sep 18 2011, 12:24 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 18 2011, 06:24 AM) Yes...   Sep 18 2011, 06:52 PM
- - Irion   QUOTE So in order to make your argument look more ...   Sep 18 2011, 08:01 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 18 2011, 04:01 PM) Sha...   Sep 19 2011, 04:14 AM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Sep 18 2011, 11:14 PM) ...   Sep 19 2011, 05:24 PM
|- - Amazeroth   QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 19 2011, 07:24 PM) Th...   Sep 19 2011, 08:11 PM
- - Yerameyahu   I don't know what your point is, though. We...   Sep 18 2011, 08:11 PM
- - bobbaganoosh   It is pointless to argue about RAW, because RAW is...   Sep 19 2011, 02:03 AM
- - Irion   @Draco18s Ok, for you the whole section (this time...   Sep 19 2011, 06:52 AM
|- - Aerospider   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 19 2011, 07:52 AM) Now...   Sep 19 2011, 07:26 AM
- - Irion   QUOTE For me (and I hope/suspect most here) RAW is...   Sep 19 2011, 08:31 AM
- - Amazeroth   I didn't read every single sentence in this th...   Sep 19 2011, 10:14 AM
|- - Aerospider   QUOTE (Amazeroth @ Sep 19 2011, 11:14 AM)...   Sep 19 2011, 01:09 PM
- - Irion   Not really. I brought it up once, but it was neve...   Sep 19 2011, 01:17 PM
- - Thanee   So, what you say is, that if the BASE DV of a weap...   Sep 19 2011, 01:32 PM
|- - Bigity   QUOTE (Thanee @ Sep 19 2011, 08:32 AM) So...   Sep 19 2011, 02:08 PM
- - Thanee   QUOTE (Bigity @ Sep 19 2011, 04:08 PM) It...   Sep 19 2011, 02:13 PM
|- - Bigity   QUOTE (Thanee @ Sep 19 2011, 09:13 AM) Th...   Sep 19 2011, 02:28 PM
||- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Bigity @ Sep 19 2011, 07:28 AM) An...   Sep 19 2011, 02:59 PM
|- - Irion   QUOTE (Thanee @ Sep 19 2011, 02:13 PM) If...   Sep 19 2011, 04:16 PM
- - Draco18s   Alright, so if the reference to the other power (H...   Sep 19 2011, 05:03 PM
- - Adarael   This discussion, like the "moving wards...   Sep 19 2011, 05:33 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Adarael @ Sep 19 2011, 01:33 PM) T...   Sep 19 2011, 05:39 PM
|- - Bodak   QUOTE (Adarael @ Sep 20 2011, 03:33 AM) T...   Sep 22 2011, 01:40 AM
- - Irion   @Draco18s Yeah, the only thing you managed so far ...   Sep 19 2011, 06:16 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 19 2011, 12:16 PM) @Ne...   Sep 19 2011, 06:58 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 19 2011, 02:16 PM) 1)W...   Sep 19 2011, 07:40 PM
- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   The point is, Irion, it does not give a different ...   Sep 19 2011, 06:23 PM
- - Irion   @Tymeaus Jalynsfein Considering game balance: Yes....   Sep 19 2011, 07:00 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 19 2011, 01:00 PM) And...   Sep 19 2011, 07:08 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 19 2011, 12:08 PM) So...   Sep 19 2011, 07:18 PM
- - Neraph   I mean, don't get me wrong Irion. I'm not ...   Sep 19 2011, 07:31 PM
- - Yerameyahu   I am just shocked to hear confirmation of the obvi...   Sep 19 2011, 08:18 PM
|- - Amazeroth   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Sep 19 2011, 10:18 PM...   Sep 19 2011, 08:26 PM
- - Irion   @Draco18s No bananas but a flawed logic. Why shoul...   Sep 19 2011, 09:06 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 19 2011, 04:06 PM) @Ne...   Sep 19 2011, 09:20 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 19 2011, 05:06 PM) @Dr...   Sep 20 2011, 03:31 AM
- - Yerameyahu   Amazeroth, can't it be both? I've been aro...   Sep 19 2011, 09:21 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Sep 19 2011, 04:21 PM...   Sep 20 2011, 04:57 AM
- - Irion   @Yerameyahu QUOTE Aw, you failed the Monty Haul pr...   Sep 19 2011, 09:47 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 19 2011, 02:47 PM) Mhm...   Sep 19 2011, 09:58 PM
- - Yerameyahu   No, it's Monty Haul, because this is an RPG fo...   Sep 20 2011, 03:33 AM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Sep 19 2011, 11:33 PM...   Sep 20 2011, 04:04 AM
- - Irion   @Draco18s QUOTE Really? So you've perfected th...   Sep 20 2011, 06:42 AM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 20 2011, 02:42 AM) If ...   Sep 20 2011, 10:08 AM
- - Thanee   1) Full: This is the full text. The following two ...   Sep 20 2011, 10:38 AM
- - Saint Hallow   Quick question... is falling damage able to bypass...   Sep 20 2011, 06:23 PM
|- - bobbaganoosh   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 20 2011, 11:23 ...   Sep 20 2011, 06:33 PM
||- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (bobbaganoosh @ Sep 20 2011, 11:33 ...   Sep 20 2011, 06:46 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Sep 20 2011, 12:23 ...   Sep 22 2011, 04:13 AM
- - KarmaInferno   "How far up are you gonna levitate that guy a...   Sep 20 2011, 08:28 PM
- - Irion   @Thanee Short notice: My definition of RAW is qui...   Sep 20 2011, 08:53 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 20 2011, 01:53 PM) @Th...   Sep 20 2011, 09:05 PM
|- - Thanee   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 20 2011, 10:53 PM) @Th...   Sep 21 2011, 06:13 AM
- - Yerameyahu   Yeah, they're equivalent.   Sep 20 2011, 09:08 PM
- - Irion   @Thanee QUOTE How are you able to play the game at...   Sep 21 2011, 07:48 AM
|- - bobbaganoosh   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 20 2011, 11:48 PM) ......   Sep 21 2011, 07:56 AM
|- - Thanee   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 21 2011, 09:48 AM) Wha...   Sep 21 2011, 01:33 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 21 2011, 03:48 AM) @Dr...   Sep 21 2011, 01:49 PM
- - Irion   @bobbaganoosh Correct. Making a RAW interpretatio...   Sep 21 2011, 08:24 AM
- - Wiseman   Personally we run it as modified DV and AP applies...   Sep 21 2011, 10:23 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Wiseman @ Sep 21 2011, 06:23 PM) B...   Sep 21 2011, 10:41 PM
- - Wiseman   It would, but to each their own. It seems disingen...   Sep 21 2011, 11:05 PM
- - Stalag   How about this: Ask your GM. However he thinks it ...   Sep 22 2011, 01:45 AM
- - Yerameyahu   On the other hand, *discussion* boards are just ab...   Sep 22 2011, 02:02 AM
- - Irion   QUOTE It's quite easy to counter with "th...   Sep 22 2011, 06:36 AM
|- - Minimax le Rouge   I found another rule that make me laugh QUOTE For...   Sep 22 2011, 08:33 AM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 22 2011, 02:36 AM) As ...   Sep 22 2011, 01:42 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 22 2011, 01:36 AM) As ...   Sep 22 2011, 03:24 PM
- - Irion   @Minimax le Rouge Well, that is not a bad rule. It...   Sep 22 2011, 08:41 AM
- - Wiseman   QUOTE You can't really argue logic too, becaus...   Sep 22 2011, 03:16 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Wiseman @ Sep 22 2011, 11:16 AM) I...   Sep 22 2011, 03:27 PM
- - Irion   @Wiseman QUOTE But at this point, Irion, you'r...   Sep 22 2011, 03:42 PM
- - Wiseman   @ Irion True. A lot of times these discussions onl...   Sep 22 2011, 04:27 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Wiseman @ Sep 22 2011, 12:27 PM) W...   Sep 22 2011, 07:58 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (Wiseman @ Sep 22 2011, 10:27 AM) W...   Sep 24 2011, 12:28 AM
- - Apathy   Does fire immunity also confer resistance to magic...   Sep 22 2011, 08:02 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Apathy @ Sep 22 2011, 04:02 PM) Do...   Sep 22 2011, 11:17 PM
- - Wiseman   QUOTE Does fire immunity also confer resistance to...   Sep 22 2011, 08:45 PM


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