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> Catalyst's garbage, Are there any SR books worth reading since "War!"?
Caduceus
post Jun 16 2013, 03:42 AM
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The exclamation mark really should have been the first clue.

Until earlier today, I hadn't bought a Shadowrun book since I bought War! two years ago and was appalled by the fact that it was literally the lowest quality printed book I had every spent money on. I was so angry at Catalyst I wrote off Shadowrun for two years-ish. However, I've been in love with the Shadowrun universe since I bought Paranormal Animals of North America with my allowance when I was 8 years old. I was stoked about the upcoming release of Shadowrun Returns, and figured if Jordan Weisman was working with Catalyst in the manner that Shadowrun.com indicates, the quality of Catalysts products must have gone back up to the level it was before they decided they didn't want to pay writers for a while. So earlier today I paid a visit to my local game store and, because I've always loved the dragons in Shadowrun, I bought The Clutch of Dragons.

Fuck was I wrong about the quality!

RPG books are never, you know, the best written documents in the world. But they're usually decent. The sort of person who is good enough at roleplaying to manage to get hired to write a supplement, and/or is the sort of person to launch their own system, is usually a pretty readable writer just because the same thinking patterns that make a good roleplayer also make for a competent writer. But Catalyst, apparently, is really prizing paying their writers a pittance over finding anyone capable of stringing a goddamn sentence together.

"While these two corporations continue to tussle, four other corporations in which Hestaby has invested have already collapsed due to the pressure Saeder-Krupp put on them. These companies include BioLogic Technologies, BCMU, Johns Hopkins Institute of Health, Inc., and Olgitechnolies." Really? The four corps really include that list of four corps? Well I'll be damned! Do they include any others? Because claiming that a group "includes" some specific examples implicitly means that there are other fucking items in that group that haven't been mentioned. "Are" is a great fucking verb if you want to talk about all the individual items in a group. Where the fuck did you learn to write and/or edit, person who let that fucking sentence into this book?

I will admit, this is one awkward passage in a book that I have barely gotten in to. But it is merely the example that broke my patience's back, and a damn shitty start, considering that it's on page 15 of a 150ish page book. Bottom line, what I've read so far is pretty badly written. I've got a lot of fucking RPG supplements, both mainstream and indie, and it's pretty rare that I stop and say to myself "Boy this is poorly written." In fact, it's so rare that it's only happened with products put out by Catalyst. Since I paid 30 goddamn dollars for this book, I'm going to do my best to plow through the rest of it. I plowed through all of War!, getting angrier all the time, and this is, I will admit, much better than War! so far. Maybe this is an isolated bad bit in a competent book. It might even be good enough that if some other company had put it out, one that I wasn't still mad at over War!, I would have overlooked the low quality. But it's fucking not, and I'm pissed that I gave more money to Catalyst, only to find out that two years later they have gotten their shit together enough to hire some half-way decent writers, or gotten a half-way decent editor. And quite frankly, I'm willing to bet its the latter over the former. My guess is this shit wasn't edited by someone who had the first clue what they were doing, and I'm pretty sure that's been the case for a couple of years now.

This is a pretty incoherent rant, for which I apologize. I'm tired and kind of drunk. But I have a lot of experience reading both amateur writing and RPG supplements, and Catalyst really wins a prize. I am bummed that they still have the license for Shadowrun, because it is my favorite RPG setting. So I guess I'm asking if there are any other books that were put out between War! and now that are worth reading. I'd like to get caught up on the meta-plot for 5th Edition, but after reading 15 pages of The Clutch of Dragons I don't have high hopes for 5th Edition.
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Posts in this topic
- Caduceus   Catalyst's garbage   Jun 16 2013, 03:42 AM
- - Bigity   Wait til you get to hordes. Or was that Storm Fro...   Jun 16 2013, 04:04 AM
- - tasti man LH   I think at this point having an "SR Continuit...   Jun 16 2013, 04:13 AM
|- - Raiden   QUOTE (tasti man LH @ Jun 16 2013, 12:13 ...   Jun 16 2013, 04:15 AM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (tasti man LH @ Jun 15 2013, 11:13 ...   Jun 16 2013, 04:27 AM
||- - Raiden   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 16 2013, 12:27 AM) ...   Jun 16 2013, 04:30 AM
||- - RHat   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 15 2013, 09:27 PM) ...   Jun 16 2013, 04:36 AM
||- - JesterZero   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 15 2013, 09:27 PM) ...   Jun 16 2013, 04:56 AM
|||- - Draco18s   QUOTE (JesterZero @ Jun 15 2013, 11:56 PM...   Jun 16 2013, 02:07 PM
||- - binarywraith   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 15 2013, 10:27 PM) ...   Jun 16 2013, 12:16 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (tasti man LH @ Jun 15 2013, 09:13 ...   Jun 16 2013, 08:18 AM
|- - Sendaz   QUOTE (kzt @ Jun 16 2013, 03:18 AM) Last ...   Jun 16 2013, 08:25 AM
- - tasti man LH   I don't even want to think about the Continuit...   Jun 16 2013, 04:32 AM
|- - Wired_SR_AEGIS   QUOTE (tasti man LH @ Jun 16 2013, 05:32 ...   Jun 16 2013, 05:41 AM
|- - KarmaInferno   QUOTE (Wired_SR_AEGIS @ Jun 16 2013, 01:4...   Jun 16 2013, 06:00 PM
|- - Epicedion   QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jun 16 2013, 02:00 ...   Jun 16 2013, 06:05 PM
- - Mantis   Yeah probably. But then that would mean we would h...   Jun 16 2013, 05:14 AM
- - Aaron   I have personally seen a large roomful of people g...   Jun 16 2013, 12:01 PM
- - CanRay   So, my work is garbage. Thanks.   Jun 16 2013, 01:09 PM
|- - Troyminator   QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 16 2013, 09:09 AM) So...   Jun 18 2013, 05:19 AM
- - Shemhazai   How important is continuity? Personally, I would l...   Jun 16 2013, 01:14 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (Shemhazai @ Jun 16 2013, 05:14 PM)...   Jun 16 2013, 05:35 PM
- - Patrick Goodman   The problem with wikis is that they're loaded ...   Jun 16 2013, 02:51 PM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (Patrick Goodman @ Jun 16 2013, 08...   Jun 16 2013, 03:27 PM
- - Larsine   QUOTE (Caduceus @ Jun 16 2013, 05:42 AM) ...   Jun 16 2013, 05:48 PM
- - CanRay   Apparently garbage sells.   Jun 16 2013, 06:08 PM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 16 2013, 12:08 PM) Ap...   Jun 16 2013, 06:21 PM
- - KarmaInferno   QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 16 2013, 02:05 PM)...   Jun 16 2013, 06:10 PM
- - Fatum   QUOTE (Caduceus @ Jun 16 2013, 07:42 AM) ...   Jun 16 2013, 06:27 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Fatum @ Jun 16 2013, 11:27 AM) Not...   Jun 16 2013, 06:41 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (kzt @ Jun 16 2013, 10:41 PM) D...   Jun 16 2013, 06:56 PM
- - CanRay   So, back to my stuff is garbage. Thanks.   Jun 16 2013, 06:38 PM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 16 2013, 12:38 PM) So...   Jun 16 2013, 06:41 PM
||- - Critias   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jun 16 2013, 12:41 ...   Jun 16 2013, 08:07 PM
||- - Udoshi   QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 16 2013, 02:07 PM) N...   Jun 16 2013, 09:09 PM
||- - winterhawk11   QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jun 16 2013, 02:09 PM) Th...   Jun 16 2013, 09:44 PM
||- - Patrick Goodman   QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jun 16 2013, 03:09 PM) Th...   Jun 16 2013, 10:40 PM
||- - Troyminator   QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jun 16 2013, 05:09 PM) Fo...   Jun 18 2013, 05:24 AM
|- - Kruger   QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 16 2013, 11:38 AM) So...   Jun 17 2013, 03:54 AM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (Kruger @ Jun 16 2013, 11:54 PM) Yo...   Jun 17 2013, 05:05 AM
|- - Kruger   QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 16 2013, 10:05 PM) ...   Jun 17 2013, 01:50 PM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (Kruger @ Jun 17 2013, 08:50 AM) Th...   Jun 17 2013, 04:23 PM
- - apple   I would not go so far to call SR5 a disaster. Ther...   Jun 16 2013, 07:24 PM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (apple @ Jun 16 2013, 11:24 PM) I w...   Jun 16 2013, 07:27 PM
|- - KarmaInferno   QUOTE (Fatum @ Jun 16 2013, 03:27 PM) So ...   Jun 16 2013, 07:58 PM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jun 16 2013, 01:58 ...   Jun 16 2013, 08:01 PM
- - Critias   What a great thread.   Jun 16 2013, 07:56 PM
|- - Patrick Goodman   QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 16 2013, 01:56 PM) W...   Jun 16 2013, 07:57 PM
|- - Sunshine   QUOTE (Patrick Goodman @ Jun 16 2013, 09...   Jun 16 2013, 08:04 PM
- - KarmaInferno   I like most of the rules. I dislike Limits and W...   Jun 16 2013, 08:15 PM
- - binarywraith   I understand completely why he'd take it badly...   Jun 16 2013, 08:17 PM
- - Patrick Goodman   There's never been a game that hasn't need...   Jun 16 2013, 08:23 PM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (Patrick Goodman @ Jun 16 2013, 02...   Jun 16 2013, 08:45 PM
|- - kzt   QUOTE (Patrick Goodman @ Jun 16 2013, 01...   Jun 16 2013, 08:55 PM
- - CanRay   Also, you're painting with a very, very broad ...   Jun 16 2013, 08:29 PM
- - apple   You do not really expect that your beloved writers...   Jun 16 2013, 09:18 PM
|- - Critias   You're pretty off in a lot of ways, Udoshi, th...   Jun 16 2013, 10:01 PM
|- - apple   QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 16 2013, 05:01 PM) A...   Jun 16 2013, 10:23 PM
|- - Udoshi   QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 16 2013, 04:01 PM) Y...   Jun 17 2013, 01:11 PM
- - Udoshi   *shrug* They've all been open in the past, oc...   Jun 16 2013, 09:22 PM
- - Redjack   QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 16 2013, 01:38 PM) So...   Jun 16 2013, 10:05 PM
|- - CanRay   QUOTE (Redjack @ Jun 16 2013, 05:05 PM) D...   Jun 16 2013, 10:22 PM
- - Wakshaani   I'll freely admit to being the weakest of the ...   Jun 16 2013, 10:22 PM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Jun 16 2013, 04:22 PM)...   Jun 16 2013, 10:28 PM
||- - CanRay   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jun 16 2013, 05:28 ...   Jun 16 2013, 10:52 PM
||- - binarywraith   QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 16 2013, 04:52 PM) Th...   Jun 16 2013, 10:58 PM
||- - Critias   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jun 16 2013, 04:58 ...   Jun 17 2013, 02:26 AM
||- - binarywraith   QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 16 2013, 08:26 PM) A...   Jun 17 2013, 05:26 AM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Jun 16 2013, 03:22 PM)...   Jun 17 2013, 11:19 PM
- - KarmaInferno   As I understand it, the Origins run was from a pri...   Jun 16 2013, 11:59 PM
- - Belker   It's pretty clear that what was just released ...   Jun 17 2013, 12:22 AM
|- - Fatum   QUOTE (Belker @ Jun 17 2013, 04:22 AM) It...   Jun 17 2013, 12:41 AM
|- - Belker   QUOTE (Fatum @ Jun 16 2013, 07:41 PM) I a...   Jun 17 2013, 12:52 AM
- - kzt   Well, when FanPro released the SR4 limited edition...   Jun 17 2013, 02:15 AM
- - SirBedevere   So far I have bought three 4E PDFs (I haven't ...   Jun 17 2013, 10:59 AM
- - Blade   I haven't read all books that came out after W...   Jun 17 2013, 02:50 PM
- - Kruger   Hey Slappy, before you get too much steam built up...   Jun 17 2013, 05:02 PM
|- - thorya   QUOTE (Kruger @ Jun 17 2013, 12:02 PM) He...   Jun 17 2013, 05:06 PM
|- - Kruger   QUOTE (thorya @ Jun 17 2013, 10:06 AM) Th...   Jun 17 2013, 05:14 PM
- - Fatum   Your faces are garbage, let's go!   Jun 17 2013, 06:18 PM
- - DireRadiant   No transaction gives either party the right to be ...   Jun 17 2013, 06:23 PM
- - Cain   All right, thanks to the NDA I can't give spec...   Jun 17 2013, 07:16 PM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 17 2013, 02:16 PM) Some...   Jun 17 2013, 07:41 PM
|- - Wakshaani   QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 17 2013, 02:41 PM) W...   Jun 18 2013, 05:55 AM
- - Patrick Goodman   QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 17 2013, 02:41 PM) Q...   Jun 17 2013, 07:44 PM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (Patrick Goodman @ Jun 17 2013, 11...   Jun 17 2013, 08:14 PM
|- - Epicedion   QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 17 2013, 03:14 PM) Whic...   Jun 17 2013, 10:16 PM
- - Shemhazai   If we dig through Catalyst's garbage, we might...   Jun 17 2013, 10:09 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE (OP)Are there any SR books worth reading sin...   Jun 17 2013, 10:16 PM
|- - Shinobi Killfist   QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 17 2013, 05:16 PM) , ...   Jun 18 2013, 04:24 AM
|- - Critias   QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Jun 17 2013, 10...   Jun 18 2013, 04:59 AM
||- - Shinobi Killfist   QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 18 2013, 12:59 AM) H...   Jun 18 2013, 05:23 AM
|- - RHat   QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Jun 17 2013, 09...   Jun 18 2013, 05:00 AM
|- - Troyminator   QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Jun 18 2013, 12...   Jun 18 2013, 05:47 AM
- - DireRadiant   It's only 500 pages. And we haven't even ...   Jun 17 2013, 10:23 PM
- - Cain   QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 17 2013, 03:16 PM)...   Jun 17 2013, 11:08 PM
- - hermit   QUOTE That's still not encouraging. While I do...   Jun 17 2013, 11:35 PM
|- - Cain   QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 17 2013, 03:35 PM) Th...   Jun 18 2013, 01:16 AM
- - Adam   I have "fond" memories of a proofer who ...   Jun 18 2013, 12:45 AM
- - ggodo   4 pages of thread and all I got out of it was that...   Jun 18 2013, 03:20 AM
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