Let's talk about machine guns, And why Catalyst need to hire someone competent to talk to about guns. Options

[Zombayz]

Before I begin, this post is largely a copy and paste job from a rant I had over on the Something Awful Forums.

The general primer on a machine gun is that it is a fully automatic firearm, usually firing from a belt, made to provide support and suppress. This is a simple concept. They fire small arms rounds, most commonly being intermediate calibers fired from assault rifles, while the larger end fire rounds that are designed to damage or destroy light vehicles. They are generally crew served weapons(this does not mean they need a crew to be used in combat, with the exception of transporting HMGs and autocannons). Most fire from belts but some, older models in particular, may fire from magazines.

An LMG is basically a belt-fed assault rifle(And in some cases literally is a belt fed modification of an assault rifle), and may also be known as a Squad Automatic Weapon, or SAW.. They're heavier(in reality this means less recoil for a given round), but still average out at something like 22 pounds loaded versus about 7 pounds for your average assault rifle. They fire the same rounds as an assault rifle. Think 5.56mm(like for a M249 and an M16), or 7.62x39mm (an AK-47 and a RPD). These are pretty light overall, and are used down to the squad level quite often, to the point where a single section or squad may even have two.

An MMG or General Purpose Machine Gun fire full size rifle rounds. They average out at around 30 pounds, loaded, where as a rifle firing the same round weighs about 10 loaded on average. Think an M240, M60, PKM, or the classic MG42 for an MMG/GPMG. M14s, SVDs, and FN FALs are all good examples of rifles firing the same kind of round round. These are generally present at the Platoon level, in moderate numbers, and weapons used as GPMGs may even be used down to the squad level. Most military vehicles mount, or are capable of mounting, an MMG/GPMG as a antipersonnel weapon.

The HMG class are big-fuckoff MGs. They're the biggest thing out there until you get into autocannons and the upper end of anti-material rifles(which are pretty much autocannons that are bolt action or semi-auto). Most of these are .50 caliber and up, the most famous of which is the Browning M2, firing the iconic .50 BMG(BMG stands for Browning Machine Gun, seriously). The M2 weighs in at 82 pounds, plus ammo. HMGs are most commonly vehicle mounted, and have a long history of being a light defense against air, whether that be helicopters or older war planes.

Autocannons are the grandaddy of all machine guns. There's nothing bigger. Firing 20mm or larger rounds, these incredibly powerful weapons are used as main guns on IFVs, and APCs, they're the primary form of AAA(anti-aircraft artillery), serve as secondary weapons on some tanks, and are present on virtually every fighter aircraft since the 1950s. The legendary GAU-8 of the A-10 'Warthog'(technically it's name is the Thunderbolt II) is an autocannon, as are many of the guns used on early WW2 tanks!

Now, let's take a look at some maths. An M240 is about 30 pounds, being fired by someone who's probably 180 pounds or more. One sixth of their bodyweight. This is still readily controllable, even if it's not something that's fun to pack around all day. A troll weighs an average of SIX HUNDRED AND SIXTY ONE POUNDS. That's EIGHT TIMES as much as the M2. With a 105 round belt, in a can, the M2 would weigh in at 118 pounds...

Which is about 1/6th the trolls weight, same as the MMG to human ratio! So to a troll, a HMG is a MMG! So the HMG to human ratio is about 2/3rds, right? Well the Troll to a MOTHER FRAGGING AUTOCANNON(in this case, the Bushmaster 25mm from a Bradley IFV) ratio, with ammo, is less than 2 to 1. Yes, that's right, Trolls make autocannons look like oversized MMGs rather than HMGs. A troll-equivilent HMG would be more like 440 pounds with ammo.

Now, after a bit of digging, I found the troll version of an HMG. It's a fucking Bushmaster III, a 40mm autocannon. Like serious fucking big leagues, you don't get any bigger without going into full blow ARTILLERY or the guns on goddamned motherfucking TANKS.


Now, let's look at what it takes to carry machine guns in Shadowrun 5e! Exciting! First, anyone can use an LMG, no problem at all. But then you get to MMGs, and a world class, top 1% human weightlifter cannot manage to use one, despite an average weight of 30 pounds loaded! That's right everybody, Andre the Giant, with his obviously maxed out mundane strength of 7, couldn't manage to fire a 30 pound gun that uses rifle bullets. An ork in the top 10% could by hitting his natural unaugmented limit though! And the average troll could as well! Now, an HMG is pretty heavy. Normal humans can't really pack these big suckers around in combat, they're just too heavy and too unwieldy. But could an ork? Nope. Could a troll? YES! A 661 pound troll, with a strength score of 10, could manage to use an 102 pound HMG! But, they could NEVER manage to carry an autocannon, not even the lightest autocannons, because they're vehicle mounted.

Now that our basic discussion is over, I'd like to add one little note. While nothing but a vehicle can fire an autocannon in shadowrun, the weakest human, with a measly 1 strength, could fire an assault cannon, which is very likely firing an autocannon round. A CHILD can handle this enormously powerful gun(for a specific example, thing of the Anzio 20mm rifles, or the Lahti L-39), but only the toughest trolls can handle a heavy machine gun.

In closing: Get your shit together Catalyst. An LMG does the same damage as an assault rifle, a MMG does the same as the average sniper/sporting rifle, and a HMG does the same as the top end of snipers. An autocannon is a valid gun for a big troll. They do not suffer from drastic, virtually uncontrollable recoil. They do not require superhuman strength to use(with the exception of HMGs and autocannons). As it stands now, there are nearly no distinct advantages to having a machine gun, and with the introduction of drum magazines(which I assume will be in Run and Gun), they will have NO advantages.

I'm sure there's someone among you who can manage to rub two brain cells together to figure this out. Y'know, I'm pretty sure as adults you can do basic research. If not, well, I suggest you help Shadowrun fans by finding competent replacements, and then help the gene pool by removing yourselves from it.



TL:DR on this mess: Catalyst need to unfrag themselves. Either go all out with the gun nerding and make an attempt to understand how drek actually works, or don't bother with guns at all besides having a single generic firearm of each class(and some very heavily simplified combat rules).