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> Racial Cost at Creation, Lack of Balance?
Tomahawk
post Jul 30 2004, 06:44 PM
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Ok I've been pondering this a bit and wanted to get some third party input. The specifics I use are with the point based generation but they could apply just as well to the priority system.

There seems to me to be a bit of inequity in the racial point costs at creation. Specifically the penalty for being an Elf seems to be too large for the benefit the player gains by being an elf. Elves gain minimal bonuses for being an elf and the cost seems to outweigh the benefit.

Here is a break down of the base races:

Elf +1 Quick, + 2 Charisma, Low Light. Net bonus attributes 3. Bonus ability 1
Ork +3 Body, +2 Strength, -1 Charisma, -1 Intelligence, Low Light. Net 3 Bonus 1
Dwarf +1 Body, +2 Strength, +1 Willpower, thermographic, Resist Disease/Toxin. Net 4 Bonus 2
Troll +5 Body, -1 quickness, +4 strength, -2 Charisma, -2 Int, Thermo, Dermal Armor, Reach. Net 4 Bonus 3.

Now obviously Troll should be the most expensive. But from this Dwarf should fall in line as the second most or the secondary most expensive alternative.

I guess it seems like the Elf gets penalized for no particular good reason. I know they have longer lives but when has that ever really come into play in Shadowrun? I imagine it is to keep them rare but they don't seem like a slightly gimped up version of what a human could do with the same points in the books...
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Posts in this topic
- Tomahawk   Racial Cost at Creation   Jul 30 2004, 06:44 PM
- - Grimtooth   Wait for it.....   Jul 30 2004, 06:49 PM
- - Odin   Thats because we hate the pointy eared dandelion e...   Jul 30 2004, 06:52 PM
- - Grimtooth   yes that's true. Scary faces but no better ma...   Jul 30 2004, 06:54 PM
- - TheScamp   Not all penalties/bonuses on certain races are sta...   Jul 30 2004, 06:57 PM
- - Grimtooth   now we get into the racism part of the equation. ...   Jul 30 2004, 06:59 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   For elves and dwarves, the difference in cost is m...   Jul 30 2004, 07:00 PM
- - Grimtooth   That's a good breakdown of why elves cost 10 p...   Jul 30 2004, 07:03 PM
- - TheScamp   QUOTE Unless you REALLY play it up, its not a pena...   Jul 30 2004, 07:03 PM
- - Odin   QUOTE yes that's true. Scary faces but no bett...   Jul 30 2004, 07:05 PM
- - Grimtooth   yes Odin they do. But if we look at only the base...   Jul 30 2004, 07:09 PM
- - Odin   QUOTE Unless, it the Humanis goons and 20 or their...   Jul 30 2004, 07:11 PM
- - nezumi   Tomahawk, if you ever get the chance, check out th...   Jul 30 2004, 07:19 PM
- - Tomahawk   QUOTE Be glad you live in the diverse and politica...   Jul 30 2004, 07:28 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Feel free to adjust the costs however you like. I...   Jul 30 2004, 07:34 PM
- - Tomahawk   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) Feel free to adjust the...   Jul 30 2004, 07:41 PM
- - TheScamp   QUOTE Honestly they true hard core racists hate El...   Jul 30 2004, 07:42 PM
- - Odin   QUOTE Yeah, but the vast majority of people who ar...   Jul 30 2004, 07:43 PM
- - Grimtooth   Actually its MY game. If Tomahawk wants to run a ...   Jul 30 2004, 07:44 PM
- - TheScamp   QUOTE True but just try to tell him he has to sit ...   Jul 30 2004, 07:45 PM
- - Smiley   The elf cost is one of the things that irks me the...   Jul 30 2004, 07:50 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   In my book, it's the cost for trolls that are ...   Jul 30 2004, 07:55 PM
- - Apathy   other negatives based on race:Dwarves get a penalt...   Jul 30 2004, 07:58 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   I've always wanted to make a dwarf kickboxer/c...   Jul 30 2004, 08:01 PM
- - Tomahawk   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) In my book, it's th...   Jul 30 2004, 08:05 PM
- - tjn   QUOTE (Apathy @ Jul 30 2004, 02:58 PM) Dwarve...   Jul 30 2004, 08:07 PM
- - BitBasher   QUOTE (tjn) QUOTE (Apathy @ Jul 30 2004, 02:5...   Jul 30 2004, 08:19 PM
- - UpSyndrome   QUOTE (Tomahawk) QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ ...   Jul 30 2004, 08:20 PM
- - Odin   QUOTE I've always wanted to make a dwarf kickb...   Jul 30 2004, 08:39 PM
- - TheScamp   That, and short people have a much easier time doi...   Jul 30 2004, 09:08 PM
- - Apathy   Capoeira seems to be very focused on kicks (this j...   Jul 30 2004, 09:17 PM
- - Odin   QUOTE Capoeira seems to be very focused on kicks (...   Jul 30 2004, 09:31 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Yes, but I'd want to play a kicking-oriented d...   Jul 30 2004, 10:18 PM
- - Kagetenshi   Someone give Polaris a call, he could provide his ...   Jul 30 2004, 10:27 PM
- - Ray Becker   QUOTE (tjn) QUOTE (Apathy @ Jul 30 2004, 02:5...   Jul 31 2004, 12:39 AM
- - Odin   QUOTE Just give a dwarf cyber skates and your laug...   Jul 31 2004, 01:30 AM
- - Shockwave_IIc   QUOTE (Kagetenshi) Someone give Polaris a call, he...   Jul 31 2004, 01:41 AM
- - Kagetenshi   There's plenty past page 11. The really good f...   Jul 31 2004, 02:13 AM
- - Glyph   I don't think elves get screwed over that badl...   Jul 31 2004, 05:48 AM
- - toturi   QUOTE (Kagetenshi) Someone give Polaris a call, he...   Jul 31 2004, 01:33 PM
- - BitBasher   QUOTE (toturi) QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Jul 31 200...   Jul 31 2004, 06:42 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   I was bored so I decided to scribble the following...   Jul 31 2004, 07:24 PM
- - Glyph   On the Bad Karma, did you mean to type -4 instead ...   Jul 31 2004, 10:25 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Behold my astonishing grasp on simple mathematics....   Jul 31 2004, 11:05 PM
- - Glyph   Actually, your math was right the first time, for ...   Aug 1 2004, 06:00 AM
- - BitBasher   Yeah, good thing this isn't a game of just num...   Aug 1 2004, 08:14 AM
- - Shev   I have to say that I like the system the way it is...   Aug 1 2004, 08:18 AM
- - tjn   Glyph, while I quible with Doc's numbers also ...   Aug 1 2004, 08:38 AM
- - mintcar   I never thought humans were shafted. Strange. My p...   Aug 1 2004, 12:35 PM
- - John Campbell   QUOTE (Shev @ Aug 1 2004, 04:18 AM) I have to...   Aug 1 2004, 06:14 PM
- - DeadNeon   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) I've always wanted ...   Aug 1 2004, 07:33 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Whoa whoa whoa... those shins are pretty high up t...   Aug 1 2004, 07:44 PM
- - shadd4d   This gives new meaning to "hitting below the ...   Aug 1 2004, 10:15 PM
- - Luke Hardison   QUOTE (shadd4d) This gives new meaning to "hi...   Aug 1 2004, 10:29 PM
- - Shev   QUOTE (Luke Hardison)QUOTE (shadd4d @ Aug 1 2...   Aug 1 2004, 10:32 PM
- - Birdy   Actually the common races brakedown often seems to...   Aug 2 2004, 10:31 AM
- - kevyn668   QUOTE The races are actually balanced if you put i...   Aug 2 2004, 07:13 PM
- - Fygg Nuuton   it was changed AFAIK   Aug 2 2004, 07:24 PM
- - Birdy   QUOTE (kevyn668) QUOTE The races are actually bala...   Aug 2 2004, 07:32 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Believeable troll characters (ie, not combat machi...   Aug 2 2004, 07:50 PM
- - kevyn668   Sorry. Forgot to add smileys... I still don't...   Aug 2 2004, 08:44 PM
- - Birdy   QUOTE (kevyn668 @ Aug 2 2004, 08:44 PM) Sorry...   Aug 2 2004, 09:02 PM
- - Fygg Nuuton   i dont think elf characters are too cheap, and i d...   Aug 2 2004, 09:46 PM
- - Birdy   QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton) i dont think elf characters ar...   Aug 2 2004, 09:51 PM
- - Modesitt   I really don't get the idea of someone taking ...   Aug 2 2004, 10:40 PM
- - kevyn668   Where's Polaris? I haven't seen him around...   Aug 2 2004, 11:09 PM
- - BitBasher   The thing is, it has bonuses right where people so...   Aug 2 2004, 11:25 PM
- - kevyn668   Ahh, the munchkin in me tells me to say "I do...   Aug 2 2004, 11:29 PM
- - BitBasher   Also, theres a big fat intangible feel of having a...   Aug 2 2004, 11:41 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Every point you don't spend on one attribute i...   Aug 2 2004, 11:45 PM
- - BitBasher   I'm pretty sure I've never seen an elf sta...   Aug 2 2004, 11:51 PM
- - tjn   I've seen a good number of elves with 3 charis...   Aug 3 2004, 12:12 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   QUOTE (BitBasher) I'm pretty sure I've nev...   Aug 3 2004, 12:23 AM
- - Glyph   One of the intangibles that the metahumans have is...   Aug 3 2004, 07:31 AM
- - snowRaven   Using SURGE effects and Edges & Flaws to ...   Aug 3 2004, 10:31 PM
- - Odin   QUOTE I think no matter how you count, elves get s...   Aug 4 2004, 12:53 AM
- - John Campbell   QUOTE (Odin) frankly I'd be perfectly happy wi...   Aug 4 2004, 02:28 AM
- - BitBasher   Yeah, most people think of elves as short like the...   Aug 4 2004, 03:03 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   If anything I'd put them at Strength -1. That...   Aug 4 2004, 03:07 AM
- - snowRaven   I agree with the good Doctor - a penalty to streng...   Aug 4 2004, 10:49 AM
- - BitBasher   So let me get this straight: The same person essen...   Aug 4 2004, 03:26 PM
- - Lantzer   QUOTE (Modesitt) ..., I'm inclined to agree wi...   Aug 4 2004, 03:37 PM
- - Beast of Revolutions   But remember, the elf also lives for three centuri...   Aug 4 2004, 04:26 PM
- - Lantzer   A little more on topic, I haven't noticed any ...   Aug 4 2004, 04:33 PM
- - kevyn668   Depends on the circles you run in. Some teams are ...   Aug 4 2004, 05:08 PM
- - Birdy   QUOTE (Lantzer) QUOTE (Modesitt @ Aug 2 2004,...   Aug 4 2004, 05:38 PM
- - Kagetenshi   And you can do that under the rules. Don't you...   Aug 4 2004, 05:41 PM
- - Lantzer   Yep, actually. I was seething earlier due to seei...   Aug 4 2004, 05:47 PM
- - Birdy   QUOTE (Lantzer) Yep, actually. I was seething ear...   Aug 4 2004, 06:35 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   QUOTE (Birdy) Some of the greatest speakers in his...   Aug 4 2004, 07:54 PM
- - Skeptical Clown   The funny thing about Charisma is that a Face does...   Aug 4 2004, 08:08 PM
- - Birdy   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) QUOTE (Birdy @ Aug...   Aug 4 2004, 08:08 PM
- - Kagetenshi   QUOTE (Skeptical Clown) The funny thing about Char...   Aug 4 2004, 08:11 PM
- - BitBasher   Heck yeah, karma costs get substantial since chari...   Aug 4 2004, 08:22 PM
- - Moonstone Spider   I like this thread. Can somebody do a breakdown o...   Aug 4 2004, 10:50 PM
- - BitBasher   I don't think shapeshifters can remotely be co...   Aug 4 2004, 11:15 PM
- - Lantzer   QUOTE (Skeptical Clown) The funny thing about Char...   Aug 4 2004, 11:48 PM
- - tjn   Err, Moonstone? Ghouls. You even posted to the t...   Aug 5 2004, 12:00 AM
- - Glyph   In addition to giving you a TN bonus for certain s...   Aug 5 2004, 06:43 AM
- - snowRaven   QUOTE (BitBasher) So let me get this straight: The...   Aug 6 2004, 12:39 AM
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