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> Elementals, Wastes of Nuyen?
Walknuki
post Dec 5 2004, 11:28 AM
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Something that's been bugging me about Shadowrun is Elementals for Mages. To me they seem prohibitively expensive. If you try to conjure a force six spirit with six levels in Conjuring. You'll roll about one service from it, and it'll cost you a cool $6,000 nuyen. You can use one service from it and then it's gone forever.

Basically a $6K grenade.

Even if you lower it to Force four it's still alot less powerful and you'll only get an extra one or two services out of it.

So what's the big deal with them? Why would you want to spend the time and energy trying to summon up these cash guzzlers?

One theory I have is that with the Aid Sorcery service, after the Spirit is reduced to 0 and vanishes, you can recall the spirit with an exclusive complex action and have it go back to Aiding Sorcery without expending another service. This would make it much much more useful.

I could see summoning up some force two and three elementals to get those few dice out of them for a whole run (and not just a single spell), and having different types of elementals bound for different spells.

Is that how it works, or does it take a whole new service after it gets reduced to 0 and gets Recalled to get your Elemental Aiding Sorcery again?

Is there something else I'm missing? Something I'm not getting? Please let me know. Convince me that Elementals are a good investment for a SR Team and not a waste of nuyen.
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Posts in this topic
- Walknuki   Elementals   Dec 5 2004, 11:28 AM
- - Fortune   Using Enchanting to create your own Conjuring Mate...   Dec 5 2004, 12:23 PM
- - Seizure   Permanent circles are a big help too. They cost a...   Dec 5 2004, 02:52 PM
- - toturi   Wait till you initiate... Great Form Elementals on...   Dec 5 2004, 03:05 PM
- - Synner   Enchanting and using permanent Hermetic Circles ar...   Dec 5 2004, 03:10 PM
- - Crusher Bob   The way I always looked at it was that thy were ch...   Dec 5 2004, 03:26 PM
- - Snow_Fox   I prefer shamanistic characters but the elements a...   Dec 5 2004, 03:56 PM
- - Cray74   Can't you attempt to get more services out of ...   Dec 5 2004, 04:30 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   No, you need more material components for the addi...   Dec 5 2004, 04:37 PM
- - Fortune   D'oh ... I knew that too!   Dec 5 2004, 05:24 PM
- - hyzmarca   Elementals have to avantage that that you can send...   Dec 5 2004, 06:17 PM
- - lodestar   Elementals can also help with spell research, maki...   Dec 5 2004, 06:39 PM
- - Walknuki   I suppose refining your own materials would save a...   Dec 5 2004, 08:17 PM
- - Eyeless Blond   Look at Magic in the Shadows. Raw herbal or iron-b...   Dec 5 2004, 08:43 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   "Unrefined summoning materisl" are Refin...   Dec 5 2004, 08:45 PM
- - Moonstone Spider   This leads to an interesting question. If materia...   Dec 5 2004, 08:46 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Because prices for magic, software, and cyberware ...   Dec 5 2004, 08:47 PM
- - Kagetenshi   I personally think that the rules for creating mag...   Dec 5 2004, 08:50 PM
- - HMHVV Hunter   QUOTE (Moonstone Spider @ Dec 5 2004, 04:46 P...   Dec 5 2004, 08:51 PM
- - Eyeless Blond   Even moreso because they can't be mass-produce...   Dec 5 2004, 09:00 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Dec 5 2004, 02:50 PM) I p...   Dec 5 2004, 09:01 PM
- - ES_Riddle   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Dec 5 2004, 04:01...   Dec 5 2004, 09:53 PM
- - Jason Farlander   QUOTE (ES_Riddle) QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)That...   Dec 5 2004, 10:33 PM
- - Cray74   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) Both are, but the creat...   Dec 5 2004, 11:10 PM
- - Kagetenshi   Out of interest, how much will they cost? ~J   Dec 5 2004, 11:20 PM
- - Eyeless Blond   Well, as an analogy it's probably why governme...   Dec 5 2004, 11:35 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Read/Write is not "special hacking software,...   Dec 5 2004, 11:58 PM
- - Shockwave_IIc   QUOTE (Cray74 @ Dec 5 2004, 11:10 PM) I can e...   Dec 6 2004, 12:31 AM
- - Jason Farlander   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) Read/Write is not ...   Dec 6 2004, 01:02 AM
- - Kagetenshi   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Dec 5 2004, 06:58...   Dec 6 2004, 01:03 AM
- - Eyeless Blond   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Dec 5 2004, 06:58...   Dec 6 2004, 01:06 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Find me a quote that says that all Utilities are f...   Dec 6 2004, 01:10 AM
- - Kagetenshi   QUOTE (Matrix p38)Automatic System Tests: Having t...   Dec 6 2004, 01:20 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Well fine, try this on for size. Matrix p. 68: ...   Dec 6 2004, 01:24 AM
- - Kagetenshi   I can't imagine how, but I can't argue wit...   Dec 6 2004, 01:28 AM
- - ES_Riddle   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) Operational Utilities l...   Dec 6 2004, 01:35 AM
- - Jason Farlander   *baleeted* eh, nevermind.   Dec 6 2004, 01:35 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   You download the file. Edit it. Upload it back. ...   Dec 6 2004, 01:39 AM
- - Kagetenshi   But they for the most part (especially Read/Write...   Dec 6 2004, 01:44 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   The quote you referred to does. The simple exista...   Dec 6 2004, 01:50 AM
- - Kagetenshi   Well, I think a big part of the argument for the p...   Dec 6 2004, 01:53 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   An Availability of 4 strongly suggests otherwise. ...   Dec 6 2004, 01:55 AM
- - Cray74   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)Read/Write is not ...   Dec 6 2004, 02:01 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)Matrix p. 68: "Util...   Dec 6 2004, 02:04 AM
- - Jason Farlander   Again, Dr F, you are wrong in your interpretation ...   Dec 6 2004, 02:07 AM
- - Cray74   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) Good luck to any of you...   Dec 6 2004, 02:09 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Compressor 6 costs exactly the same amount. The o...   Dec 6 2004, 02:13 AM
- - ES_Riddle   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)The quote you referred t...   Dec 6 2004, 02:14 AM
- - Cray74   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) That still doesn't ...   Dec 6 2004, 02:15 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   You mean like the price for WinZIP's equivalen...   Dec 6 2004, 02:18 AM
- - Cray74   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) You mean like the price...   Dec 6 2004, 02:23 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Explain to me why that analogy doesn't work (w...   Dec 6 2004, 02:34 AM
- - Kagetenshi   Aid you in performing them when the system doesn...   Dec 6 2004, 03:01 AM
- - Jason Farlander   *shrugs* Perhaps the file formats used in the 2060...   Dec 6 2004, 03:03 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   QUOTE (Kagetenshi) Aid you in performing them when...   Dec 6 2004, 03:13 AM
- - Eyeless Blond   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) QUOTE (Kagetenshi ...   Dec 6 2004, 04:17 AM
- - John Campbell   The rules for Compressor are totally wacked, anywa...   Dec 6 2004, 04:46 AM
- - hyzmarca   Considering the cost of everything else in Shadowr...   Dec 6 2004, 07:43 AM
- - Eyeless Blond   Except guns, some vehicles, and lower-class housin...   Dec 6 2004, 08:05 AM
- - Eyeless Blond   QUOTE (John Campbell) The rules for Compressor are...   Dec 6 2004, 08:27 AM
- - Jason Farlander   So yeah... elementals... I like them. Theyre pri...   Dec 6 2004, 08:34 AM
- - Club   QUOTE (Cray74 @ Dec 5 2004, 06:10 PM) QUOTE (...   Dec 6 2004, 08:40 AM
- - Joe Outside   As another point to Doc Funk's side, it's ...   Dec 6 2004, 08:45 AM
- - Jason Farlander   Right, they dont have a legality rating, which mea...   Dec 6 2004, 08:51 AM
- - ES_Riddle   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) Hell. According to som...   Dec 6 2004, 10:14 AM
- - Crusher Bob   There's nothing 'inherently' illegal a...   Dec 6 2004, 11:32 AM
- - apple   You forget that you need several programs for data...   Dec 6 2004, 11:48 AM
- - mintcar   I can only say that for me, the utilities must be ...   Dec 6 2004, 01:13 PM
- - Dissonance   Besides, we all know that no company would ever, ...   Dec 6 2004, 04:14 PM
- - lorthazar   Illegal compressor? I can see it after all only a...   Dec 6 2004, 05:59 PM
- - draco aardvark   QUOTE (hyzmarca) If you like the more hand-on apro...   Dec 6 2004, 10:04 PM
- - hyzmarca   Spirit Strength is an Awaken Compound found in Man...   Dec 6 2004, 11:01 PM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   But disregard the consequences of its use. Most p...   Dec 7 2004, 12:16 AM
- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) But disregard the conse...   Dec 7 2004, 12:31 AM
- - Jason Farlander   Honestly, the negative aftereffects arent *that* b...   Dec 7 2004, 12:33 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   It also lacks a price, Availability, legality, and...   Dec 7 2004, 12:38 AM
- - Jason Farlander   Oh, of course its not as if it would be an easy th...   Dec 7 2004, 12:50 AM
- - draco aardvark   QUOTE (hyzmarca)Spirit Strength is an Awaken Compo...   Dec 7 2004, 02:54 AM
- - Jason Farlander   Channeling is a metamagic technique that appears i...   Dec 7 2004, 03:18 AM
- - Doctor Funkenstein   Leaves you with a nasty case of Deadly drain after...   Dec 7 2004, 03:20 AM
- - Fortune   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) Why does nobody every i...   Dec 7 2004, 03:22 AM
- - Kagetenshi   Because if people considered the consequences, the...   Dec 7 2004, 03:23 AM
- - Herald of Verjigorm   QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)(Why does nobody ever in...   Dec 7 2004, 03:24 AM
- - Jason Farlander   *shrugs* I also didnt mention the conjuring test a...   Dec 7 2004, 03:25 AM
- - hyzmarca   Hmmmm.... Is the Immunity to Normal Weapons power ...   Dec 7 2004, 07:19 AM
- - Jason Farlander   Spirit's Force.   Dec 7 2004, 07:31 AM
- - Club   If you are in the wilderness, shaman have it all o...   Dec 8 2004, 09:29 AM
- - Mr.Cato   yeah I like elementals. The biggest use for me an...   Dec 8 2004, 12:18 PM
- - apple   QUOTE (Club)The spirits of man, however, have stat...   Dec 8 2004, 01:33 PM
- - ES_Riddle   QUOTE (Mr.Cato) by the way... can they decide when...   Dec 8 2004, 04:55 PM
- - Bigity   Hm, I thought a spirit could be told to "obey...   Dec 8 2004, 05:05 PM
- - ES_Riddle   QUOTE (Bigity) Hm, I thought a spirit could be tol...   Dec 8 2004, 06:51 PM
- - nezumi   Alright, I'm going to resurrect a dead thread,...   Jan 19 2007, 06:50 PM
- - Herald of Verjigorm   QUOTE (p. 186 "Summoning Elementals" Par...   Jan 19 2007, 07:12 PM
- - nezumi   Mine doesn't say that. Hm... Ah, in the erra...   Jan 19 2007, 07:34 PM


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