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SR4 FAQ #5--The Real One, No, I don't know why I'm up this late

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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*

May 13 2005, 08:38 AM

Post #1

Guests

QUOTE

SR4 FAQ, Part Five

Now to get back on track with SR4 FAQ updates. Here are a few answers regarding magic:

Q. Will Magic skills be broken up like firearms in SR3?
A. Magic is roughly divided into two categories for the core book, Sorcery and Conjuring. Rather than being skills of their own, however, those are general categories. The Sorcery skills are Spellcasting, Ritual Spellcasting, and Counterspelling. The Conjuring skills are Summoning, Banishing, and Binding. Those are the skills that do most of the heavy lifting for magic in SR4.

OMG...
BTW, Counterspelling? Really? They're going with Counterspelling as a term? Wow.

QUOTE

Q. Will there still be Metamagic?
A. Yes, though it’s not exactly the same. Rather than relying on a host of new additional skills, we’ve redesigned metamagic techniques to grant new abilities to skills the magician should already have access to. Metamagic does not make a huge appearance in the core book, however. There just isn’t enough room to include it all.

Heh, "Rather than relying on a host of new additional skills..." Nah, they already took care of that in Q#1. However, of the six Magical Skills named in Q#1, none of them is called, "Centering" or "Aura Reading" or "Divining" or... Hmm. They do give themselves an out with, "[The six enumerated skills] are the skills that do most of the heavy lifting for magic in SR4" (emphasis mine), but that begs the question of whether one should now be expected to have a Centering skill at chargen if metamagics, "grant new abilities to skills the magician should already have access to."

QUOTE

Q. Do we still have Mages and Shamans?
A. Yes. In addition, however, a flexible tradition design system has been included, allowing players to model existing traditions easily, or even to create their own along with their GM. Both Hermetic and Shamanic traditions have been created for the main book and are included as the default choices.

Well, the Psionics people will like the tradition creation system, I guess. I guess all the other existing major traditions are relegated to Street Magic.

QUOTE

Q. What are you trying to do with Magic?
A. In setting out to design this, we had a few things in mind that we wanted to do as improvements over the old system. First, we wanted to make sure we were laying the groundwork for something we could expand upon later. One of the big problems with the Magic system up until now is that it simply didn’t accomodate additions. It was built to be what it was, and if anything got added, it had to be an entirely new method of doing things. Nothing was ever built upon the existing mechanics, in large part because the original existing mechanics weren’t built to accomodate other uses. The result was a system that accumulated rules detritus like a ship gathers barnacles. That’s not good design.

A second problem was that, despite three editions of the game, Magic was largely still a legacy system (to borrow a bit of computer terminology). Instead of using things that worked and discarding things that didn’t, we largely had just kept it all and tried using tweaks and bailing wire to hold it all together. With SR4, we had the luxury of taking it apart, seeing what worked and what didn’t, and reassembling it into a working whole, with new parts to replace the missing ones or damaged ones. We also didn’t want the mechanics of the core game to work in a substantially different manner than Magic did, so we tried to find new ways to handle rules issues that before had given rise to special cases, created just for Magic. This is true of design all throughout the game, though, not just for the Magic system.

The third goal we had for design with this part of the game was to eliminate unnecessary complexity. We didn’t want to do away with the aspects of magic that gave the game its feel, like traditions, spirit summoning, drain, and so forth, but we did want to make sure we didn’t have a dozen different systems trying to accomplish what one could do. I think we went a long way toward accomplishing that.

Wow, and I thought I was good at making long-winded vague statements. But, really, I don't know what to say about this.

Posts in this topic

Crimsondude 2.0 SR4 FAQ #5--The Real One May 13 2005, 08:38 AM

chevalier_neon QUOTE Rather than relying on a host of new additio... May 13 2005, 08:53 AM

apple That should be clear. Rob is preparing our nerves ... May 13 2005, 08:53 AM

Crimsondude 2.0 QUOTE (chevalier_neon @ May 13 2005, 02:53 AM... May 13 2005, 08:55 AM

apple QUOTE (chevalier_neon) If I aml mistaken, well... ... May 13 2005, 08:55 AM

Crimsondude 2.0 QUOTE (apple) QUOTE (chevalier_neon @ May 13 ... May 13 2005, 09:00 AM

fistandantilus3.0 if Metamagics get a thorough working over, shoul... May 13 2005, 09:04 AM

Eldritch QUOTE Q. What are you trying to do with Magic? A. ... May 13 2005, 09:06 AM

chevalier_neon Ok, thank you for your help on this one... I think... May 13 2005, 09:09 AM

Crimsondude 2.0 QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) if Metamagics get a th... May 13 2005, 09:14 AM

fistandantilus3.0 like me sad little street mage now May 13 2005, 09:25 AM

fistandantilus3.0 seriosuly though, it should be interesting to see ... May 13 2005, 09:33 AM

Grinder QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) No kidding. I know some pe... May 13 2005, 09:39 AM

Crimsondude 2.0 QUOTE (Eldritch)I really don't see this at all... May 13 2005, 09:40 AM

Crimsondude 2.0 QUOTE (Grinder @ May 13 2005, 03:39 AM) QUOTE... May 13 2005, 09:42 AM

chevalier_neon I don't think it will lower the magus power...... May 13 2005, 09:58 AM

Crimsondude 2.0 Nah, that's not streamlined. At least not comp... May 13 2005, 09:59 AM

Grinder QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) These are PCs with 1000+ k... May 13 2005, 10:04 AM

Grinder QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) Nah, that's not stream... May 13 2005, 10:05 AM

The White Dwarf Seems to me this points to one of the possible way... May 13 2005, 10:13 AM

apple QUOTE (Grinder) Firearms was split up in SR3 - so ... May 13 2005, 11:01 AM

PenAgain Ok, while we are going around hacking the six-skil... May 13 2005, 11:02 AM

Grinder QUOTE (apple) QUOTE (Grinder @ May 13 2005, 0... May 13 2005, 11:07 AM

Critias QUOTE (Grinder) QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ May ... May 13 2005, 11:53 AM

Grinder Don't forget the gone-away combat pool. May 13 2005, 12:39 PM

Patrick Goodman The bastard would put that up on my wedding day, w... May 13 2005, 12:42 PM

chevalier_neon I don't see what's bad if the new system i... May 13 2005, 12:46 PM

Moon-Hawk At least this FAQ told us something. Not, y'k... May 13 2005, 12:54 PM

Nikoli How many folks have lamented that it's an enti... May 13 2005, 01:03 PM

Kagetenshi QUOTE Q. Do we still have Mages and Shamans? A. Ye... May 13 2005, 01:15 PM

RangerJoe QUOTE Speaking of the opposite of good. Honestly, ... May 13 2005, 01:36 PM

mfb yeah. SR tried to embrace all real-world magical t... May 13 2005, 01:57 PM

Geko I like the idea of splitting up the skills, becaus... May 13 2005, 02:22 PM

Demonseed Elite Yeah, I don't think it's ever been the cas... May 13 2005, 02:28 PM

blakkie QUOTE (Eldritch @ May 13 2005, 03:06 AM) *shr... May 13 2005, 02:29 PM

Ranneko QUOTE (RangerJoe) Having multiple traditions will ... May 13 2005, 02:29 PM

blakkie Hmmm, looks like I'll need to ask for a refund... May 13 2005, 02:47 PM

akarenti Did we get any mention of Specializations in the S... May 13 2005, 05:26 PM

Umbrage QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 ... May 13 2005, 05:59 PM

GunnerJ I guess I stand alone here, but IMO this FAQ quali... May 13 2005, 06:07 PM

Kagetenshi QUOTE (GunnerJ) Am I really the only who sees what... May 13 2005, 06:13 PM

Eldritch QUOTE () [QUOTE=Eldritch,May 13 2005, 03:06 AM] *s... May 13 2005, 06:20 PM

Eldritch QUOTE () [QUOTE=Eldritch,May 13 2005, 03:06 AM] *s... May 13 2005, 06:25 PM

Lucyfersam Overall, this FAQ was pretty good by me, and I agr... May 13 2005, 06:26 PM

Eldritch QUOTE () QUOTE (Eldritch @ May 13 2005, 03:06... May 13 2005, 06:28 PM

Charon Well, I'm good with the multiple magical skill... May 13 2005, 06:32 PM

Nikoli I agree. The core of the magic subsystem was buil... May 13 2005, 06:41 PM

Eldritch QUOTE (blakkie) QUOTE (Eldritch @ May 13 2005... May 13 2005, 06:42 PM

Nikoli Are you reposting that same message over and over ... May 13 2005, 06:45 PM

frostPDP Alright, I'm officially sad. I'm gonna ke... May 13 2005, 06:58 PM

Geko You're assuming that the creation process/cost... May 13 2005, 07:00 PM

Nikoli Why on earth are you assuming that the SR3 point c... May 13 2005, 07:02 PM

Crimsondude 2.0 QUOTE (Grinder @ May 13 2005, 04:05 AM) QUOTE... May 13 2005, 07:38 PM

Rolemodel QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)But my question remains, wh... May 13 2005, 08:00 PM

Crimsondude 2.0 QUOTE (Rolemodel @ May 13 2005, 02:00 PM) Als... May 13 2005, 08:03 PM

Grinder QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) QUOTE (Grinder @ May ... May 13 2005, 08:16 PM

Crimsondude 2.0 Context: QUOTE QUOTE (chevalier_neon)I don't ... May 13 2005, 08:24 PM

Ellery If I pretend that I don't know anything about ... May 13 2005, 08:26 PM

Eldritch QUOTE Are you reposting that same message over an... May 13 2005, 08:35 PM

Crimsondude 2.0 QUOTE (Ellery @ May 13 2005, 02:26 PM) So it... May 13 2005, 08:40 PM

Grinder QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) Context: QUOTE QUOTE (che... May 13 2005, 09:12 PM

Eldritch QUOTE I don't think streamlining means having ... May 13 2005, 09:27 PM

Catsnightmare QUOTE (apple) Splitting skills up for a rule syst... May 13 2005, 09:32 PM

chevalier_neon It might be easier to have one skill for each task... May 13 2005, 09:53 PM

Ellery I don't think there's anything wrong with ... May 13 2005, 09:57 PM

Crimsondude 2.0 QUOTE (Ellery) What I wonder is why they think the... May 13 2005, 10:08 PM

frostPDP The reason I was using SR3's chargen is becaus... May 13 2005, 10:11 PM

Solstice QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) QUOTE Q. What are yo... May 13 2005, 10:13 PM

chevalier_neon I would really hate this... I would really hate a ... May 13 2005, 10:17 PM

Eldritch QUOTE n your case, you, SR players, you have the c... May 13 2005, 11:36 PM

blakkie QUOTE (Eldritch) QUOTE (blakkie @ May 13 2005... May 13 2005, 11:37 PM

blakkie QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ May 13 2005, 10:14 A... May 13 2005, 11:47 PM

blakkie QUOTE (frostPDP @ May 13 2005, 04:11 PM) The ... May 14 2005, 12:00 AM

Crimsondude 2.0 QUOTE (blakkie) Those kind of characters are going... May 14 2005, 12:16 AM

blakkie QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ May 13 2005, 06:16 P... May 14 2005, 12:24 AM

Crimsondude 2.0 Ask their players. May 14 2005, 12:37 AM

Cynic project QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) QUOTE (apple @ May 13... May 14 2005, 12:39 AM

Crimsondude 2.0 Well, I'd prefer not to have the sodomy in the... May 14 2005, 12:56 AM

Cynic project But that is not what is at stake. What is at stake... May 14 2005, 01:02 AM

Crimsondude 2.0 What kind of cake? May 14 2005, 03:09 AM

Kesh QUOTE (SR4 FAQ @ Part Five) Now to get back... May 14 2005, 06:26 AM

Crimsondude 2.0 QUOTE (Kesh @ May 14 2005, 12:26 AM) Very int... May 14 2005, 06:35 AM

Demonseed Elite QUOTE Then could you translate it from crazy? I c... May 14 2005, 11:07 AM

SirBedevere QUOTE (Eldritch)"The sky is falling, the sky ... May 14 2005, 11:16 AM

blakkie QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ May 13 2005, 06:37 P... May 14 2005, 12:23 PM

Zen Shooter01 I think what we've seen so far looks very inte... May 14 2005, 03:58 PM

Eldritch QUOTE One thing that's very popular in RPGs i... May 14 2005, 06:46 PM

Ellery QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)I don't think I can eve... May 14 2005, 06:54 PM

blakkie QUOTE (Ellery @ May 14 2005, 12:54 PM) QUOTE ... May 14 2005, 09:41 PM

Zen Shooter01 I'm not denying people the right to have opini... May 14 2005, 09:44 PM

Crimsondude 2.0 And some customers know exactly what they want. I... May 14 2005, 09:44 PM

Penta QUOTE (Zen Shooter01) (Has anyone else noticed tha... May 14 2005, 09:56 PM

Eldritch QUOTE I'm not denying people the right to have... May 14 2005, 11:22 PM

blakkie QUOTE (Eldritch @ May 14 2005, 05:22 PM) If y... May 14 2005, 11:24 PM

Crimsondude 2.0 Actually they're trying to install a new engin... May 14 2005, 11:26 PM

blakkie QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) Actually they're tryin... May 14 2005, 11:30 PM

Eldritch QUOTE Just an aside, given your strong prejudice a... May 14 2005, 11:33 PM

blakkie QUOTE (Eldritch) Instead of calling it SR4, it sho... May 14 2005, 11:46 PM

Kesh QUOTE (Eldritch) Instead of calling it SR4, it sho... May 15 2005, 06:25 AM

Bandwidthoracle I love what they are doing to shadowrun, the more ... May 15 2005, 09:29 PM

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