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Zen Shooter01
post Aug 21 2005, 12:29 AM
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I don't have my PDF yet. So I am working only from what has appeared on these boards. But I do have to give in to the temptation to say this.

Armor, generally, reduces damage to stun. If I recall correctly, a lined coat has a ballistic of 6, and a Predator a damage code of 5P (-1AP). So let's say the shooter shoots and inflicts four boxes of damage. Because the DV does not exceed the modified armor value, the damage done is stun.

This totally disregards the fact that armor does not cover the entire body. The SR3 system accounted for this lack of total coverage by making it possible to kill a person wearing a lined coat with a heavy pistol. SR4, apparently, does not.

If combat magic still ignores armor and still does killing damage, then magic has gained a big jump-up in killpower over firearms.

It also seems to me that this will create an arms race, where everybody will be forced to carry SMGs and autoshotguns just to overcome common armors.

I understand that the stun condition monitor probably still overflows into the physical condition monitor, but the chances of inflicting 20 or so boxes of damage with anything less than a sustained barrage of pistol fire are, at best, vanishingly small.

Again, I only have the SR4 information I have seen on these boards.
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Posts in this topic
- Zen Shooter01   Issue with Armor   Aug 21 2005, 12:29 AM
- - Ellery   There may still be called shots for bypassing armo...   Aug 21 2005, 12:36 AM
- - Clyde   If I remember right from Tisoz's posting, Armo...   Aug 21 2005, 12:42 AM
- - Rolemodel   Good point, Ellery. With any luck, it will be a b...   Aug 21 2005, 12:45 AM
- - Cochise   QUOTE There may still be called shots for bypassin...   Aug 21 2005, 12:47 AM
- - Ellery   No, chances are it will be even less balanced, tho...   Aug 21 2005, 12:50 AM
- - Nerbert   I've generally found that called shots in incr...   Aug 21 2005, 12:58 AM
- - Backgammon   Stun damage is still damage. Get 10 boxes (or what...   Aug 21 2005, 01:29 AM
- - Modesitt   QUOTE I think that called shots should be used onl...   Aug 21 2005, 02:00 AM
- - Sabosect   Actually, taking a Called Shot is used primarily t...   Aug 21 2005, 02:01 AM
- - mfb   eh. i've never viewed "unconsciousness...   Aug 21 2005, 02:03 AM
- - Nerbert   QUOTE (Sabosect) Actually, taking a Called Shot is...   Aug 21 2005, 02:36 AM
- - Sabosect   Statistically, the best place to shoot someone is ...   Aug 21 2005, 02:39 AM
- - Nerbert   Right, and the way in which to balance the difficu...   Aug 21 2005, 02:47 AM
- - Sabosect   That's why you use modifiers. Attach a positiv...   Aug 21 2005, 03:00 AM
- - Nerbert   Obviously you use modifiers. But how much modifie...   Aug 21 2005, 03:05 AM
- - Sabosect   The benefit with a modifier is that it becomes har...   Aug 21 2005, 03:09 AM
- - Gort   Also, what about a couple of EX rounds? You'll...   Aug 21 2005, 03:17 AM
- - FrostyNSO   QUOTE (Gort) Also, what about a couple of EX round...   Aug 21 2005, 03:50 AM
- - hahnsoo   QUOTE (mfb) eh. i've never viewed "uncons...   Aug 21 2005, 07:30 AM
- - hahnsoo   Called Shots (for both Ranged and Melee attacks) d...   Aug 21 2005, 07:36 AM
- - SL James   QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 21 2005, 01:36 AM) Calle...   Aug 21 2005, 08:11 AM
- - hahnsoo   QUOTE (SL James) It's easier to shoot a matchs...   Aug 21 2005, 11:06 AM
- - nezumi   I actually saw this as the reverse problem. Imagi...   Aug 21 2005, 12:14 PM
- - mintcar   That would be one hell of a meta-gaming offence. ...   Aug 21 2005, 12:22 PM
- - hahnsoo   Bleh, I just read the part about having to take 3 ...   Aug 21 2005, 12:26 PM
- - Zen Shooter01   Hahnsoo: Christ, are you sure those are the called...   Aug 21 2005, 01:58 PM
- - hobgoblin   thing is that with a bypass armor called shot your...   Aug 21 2005, 02:30 PM
- - mmu1   I think the "target a vital area" rules ...   Aug 21 2005, 03:16 PM
- - blakkie   QUOTE (mmu1) I think the "target a vital area...   Aug 21 2005, 03:49 PM
- - Zen Shooter01   hobgoblin: Targeting the face was just an example...   Aug 21 2005, 08:29 PM
- - Sabosect   Agreed. Looking at that, I can't help but shak...   Aug 21 2005, 11:00 PM
- - Ellery   I'd think that everyone would use the DV incre...   Aug 21 2005, 11:02 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Can somebody confirm that layering is effectively ...   Aug 21 2005, 11:21 PM
- - hahnsoo   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Aug 21 2005, 06:2...   Aug 21 2005, 11:35 PM
- - Zen Shooter01   Are helmets separate from security armor? As I rec...   Aug 21 2005, 11:40 PM
- - blakkie   QUOTE (Zen Shooter01) Are helmets separate from se...   Aug 21 2005, 11:46 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Thx... well, thats a sad solution, but a solution ...   Aug 21 2005, 11:59 PM
- - ShadowGhost   QUOTE (mmu1 @ Aug 21 2005, 03:16 PM) I wonder...   Aug 22 2005, 05:28 PM
- - mmu1   QUOTE (ShadowGhost) We don't allow called shot...   Aug 22 2005, 05:33 PM
- - Shadow_Prophet   My rule of thumb as a GM was, and I warned my play...   Aug 22 2005, 05:56 PM
- - BitBasher   QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet) My rule of thumb as a GM wa...   Aug 22 2005, 05:57 PM
- - Darkness   QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 21 2005, 02:26 PM) Bleh,...   Aug 22 2005, 06:04 PM
- - blakkie   QUOTE (Darkness) QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 21 2005...   Aug 22 2005, 06:06 PM
- - Darkness   I interpreted it as standing for the entire row, a...   Aug 22 2005, 06:09 PM
- - blakkie   QUOTE (Darkness) I interpreted it as standing for ...   Aug 22 2005, 06:16 PM
- - Darkness   Indeed. So, what hahnsoo said is how it is written...   Aug 22 2005, 06:23 PM
- - hahnsoo   QUOTE (Darkness) Indeed. So, what hahnsoo said is ...   Aug 22 2005, 07:14 PM
- - Darkness   Thanks. And mea maxima culpa, that i didn't go...   Aug 22 2005, 07:18 PM
- - tisoz   QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 21 2005, 05:35 PM) QUOTE...   Aug 22 2005, 08:06 PM
- - hahnsoo   QUOTE (tisoz) You can layer, but only the highest ...   Aug 22 2005, 08:17 PM
- - Modesitt   QUOTE My rule of thumb as a GM was, and I warned m...   Aug 22 2005, 08:28 PM
- - SL James   That's hilarious.   Aug 22 2005, 08:31 PM
- - tisoz   QUOTE (hahnsoo) What page are the Armor degradatio...   Aug 22 2005, 08:56 PM
- - Wireknight   QUOTE (Modesitt) ... Combat Pool.  We don...   Aug 23 2005, 12:57 AM
- - Shadow_Prophet   QUOTE (Modesitt) QUOTE My rule of thumb as a GM wa...   Aug 23 2005, 03:45 AM
- - nezumi   I disallowed called shots to unarmored portions of...   Aug 23 2005, 11:03 AM


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