Mundane Low-Augumented Character, Seeking character creation advice Options

[Stahlseele]

In the end its savagery that wins a fight... period.

You say that as if there were something wrong about that o.O

[HunterHerne]

In the end its savagery that wins a fight... period.

I really don`t think so. Savagery can give you surprise factor, with being the only crazy slot willing to bite the guy with the gun, but in general, smart tactics and better gear win the day.

[Smokeskin]

That's because you know nothing about it.

The secret behind the one inch punch, as developed by Bruce Lee, was to generate a lot of power in a very short distance. If someone closes into you to grapple, you need to be able to generate a lot of force to take them out. You don't have the luxury of a full draw, so you have to rely on other tricks.

What you've seen is the stage version. Sending people flying looks good for the audience, but it's really not that effective in a fight. The trick is to leave that power inside the opponent, much like a hollow point round. The real punch leaves all that explosive force inside your body, doing a lot of damage.

The other important thing to realize is what it teaches you. Try this trick: hold a phone book against your chest, for padding. Have a friend punch you from one inch away. You might feel something, but not much. Now, have him repeat the punch, only now at a six-inch draw. You'll feel a lot more power. Next, have him go full-draw and unload. Guess what happens? You're on your butt.

People who learn the one inch punch learn it to increase their punching power. They can generate a lot of power from only an inch away, so what do you think happens when they can get a full draw on you? The answer is: they get even more powerful.

And if you want to know how I know this: I trained under James DeMile. I have an open invitation to train with Patrick Strong. I've never trained personally with Taky Kimura, but I went to his son Andy's first wedding. If you want to look them up, you'll see that they are all original students of Bruce Lee. I am very aware of the Bruce Lee legacy, and I know that what he actually developed and what other people teach is not the same thing at all.

If what you're saying is, the one inch punch is something you do to learn to punch properly, whatever. People have all sorts of training practices.

As long as we agree that the one inch punch isn't a proper punch. As you say, with a full draw they punch much harder.

[Smokeskin]

Wrong. A Shove does not manage to break boards as they do with this punch.

One, I said more like a shove, not exactly like a shove.

Second, most board breaking is also just gimmicks. Weak wood broken along the grain.

The idea that you can throw a powerful punch with only an inch to accelerate your arm is just silly. You can put your body behind it and get some whip into it, but you just can't built up proper speed over such a short distance.

Or maybe kung fu monks have magic powers. Chi also hardens their skin to iron so they can block swords with their arms and stop spears with their abdomens.

[Stahlseele]

Training, especially LIFE LONG Training allows People to do silly shit . .

[Blitz66]

One, I said more like a shove, not exactly like a shove.

Second, most board breaking is also just gimmicks. Weak wood broken along the grain.

The idea that you can throw a powerful punch with only an inch to accelerate your arm is just silly. You can put your body behind it and get some whip into it, but you just can't built up proper speed over such a short distance.

Or maybe kung fu monks have magic powers. Chi also hardens their skin to iron so they can block swords with their arms and stop spears with their abdomens.

I've seen this proven empirically false. A one-inch punch can be absurdly powerful if you do it right, and crash test dummies agree. It was even on TV last month, some reality show focusing on amazing feats.

Of course, it was no surprise to me, because the principles the monk used were similar to what I teach. I'm most effective and powerful from a range people don't think other people can strike from effectively. Not some esoteric internal style, either. Classic military techniques.

[CanRay]

In the end its savagery that wins a fight... period.

I really don`t think so. Savagery can give you surprise factor, with being the only crazy slot willing to bite the guy with the gun, but in general, smart tactics and better gear win the day.

*Cough*The Joker*Cough*

[LurkerOutThere]

The joker wouldn't last 10 seconds in the shadowrun universe. He only gets to continue to succeed because his primary opponent will never kill him and he has plot armor.

Also the last couple pages I felt like I logged into bullshido.

[Blitz66]

Also the last couple pages I felt like I logged into bullshido.

This is the Internet. Use Google. It's not hard to find proper empirical tests of the one-inch punch. I'd post it myself, but I'm on my phone and typing with my thumbs, and it's a pain.

[HunterHerne]

*Cough*The Joker*Cough*

Along with what Lurker says about the Joker having plot armour and his primary opponent, the Joker also uses brains with savagery. He may not be the brightest in a IQ sense, but he is very capable of reading situations, and acts with a chaotic fashion. It is strategically sound to do the unexpected, but not usually when you are just rushing a group of guys with more armour/firepower.

[LurkerOutThere]

This is the Internet. Use Google. It's not hard to find proper empirical tests of the one-inch punch. I'd post it myself, but I'm on my phone and typing with my thumbs, and it's a pain.

You are presuming i care, again this is dumpshock not Bullshido, I don't mind the discussion I am just amused by the placement of it. We could always resurrect the Krav Maga thread

[Blitz66]

Along with what Lurker says about the Joker having plot armour and his primary opponent, the Joker also uses brains with savagery. He may not be the brightest in a IQ sense, but he is very capable of reading situations, and acts with a chaotic fashion. It is strategically sound to do the unexpected, but not usually when you are just rushing a group of guys with more armour/firepower.

When you want to do the unexpected, keep in mind that people usually don't expect things because they would be silly. Prepare and have something ready that people think you CAN'T do, not that you WOULDN'T do.

[HunterHerne]

When you want to do the unexpected, keep in mind that people usually don't expect things because they would be silly. Prepare and have something ready that people think you CAN'T do, not that you WOULDN'T do.

"You can't prepare for the unexpected. All you can do, is prepare to be surprised"

You, of course, are right. And the Joker still does that, more often then not. Even if he remains within the boundaries of human capability, he breaks the rules of strategy by doing things that no one can properly think to do, because they are weighed down by logic.

[Blitz66]

"You can't prepare for the unexpected. All you can do, is prepare to be surprised"

You, of course, are right. And the Joker still does that, more often then not. Even if he remains within the boundaries of human capability, he breaks the rules of strategy by doing things that no one can properly think to do, because they are weighed down by logic.

If a rational person can't think of it, that's because it's not a rational thing to do. That doesn't mean just conventional or unconventional. It means that the action is or is not beneficial to you. The Joker pulling out clever surprises, sure, no problem. The Joker winning on pure crazy off the cuff? Doubt it.

[Doc Byte]

That can largely be done while having bioware, too.

But i really like the blandness / erased combo, one of the few themes that fit for a human. Generally, i dont see why one would want to play such a character though. You can be low-dog with implants as well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The character I've mentioned isn't a 'low-dog' at all. In fact he's a member of a themed team of 6 Ex-MET2Ks I've created and has his role in the team.

As long as you're not in a group of gung-ho prime runner types I could easily see such concepts working-- especially with karmagen-- since they tend to be pretty gadget oriented and for better or worse Shadowrun is a rather gear oriented game. As I implied earlier, the trick is to avoid eschewing nuyen advancement entirely and to pack some tricks that don't give a rat's ass what your attributes are. If you're going to be a mundo then you should consider being a very technical boy. Knowing a few people in high places doesn't hurt either. I've played a character that was mostly a mundo and he got by basically by being a Trust Fund kiddie/small-time fixer.

I don't know how the charakter would work in a 'normal' team. Like I said, he's part of a themed team. All of them are very low on ware. That was part of the concept as well. All of them should be able to board an airplane without being arrested at the front door.

---

Unfortunately I lack the time to translate the band into English. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Blitz66]

There are ways to achieve walking through security successfully without ditching 'ware. Opt for bioware and openly available cyberware, maybe permits for a few bits, and you're set. Not missing out on too much.

[HunterHerne]

If a rational person can't think of it, that's because it's not a rational thing to do. That doesn't mean just conventional or unconventional. It means that the action is or is not beneficial to you. The Joker pulling out clever surprises, sure, no problem. The Joker winning on pure crazy off the cuff? Doubt it.

I agree. And that's what I mean. The Joker wins the victories he does because of crazy savagery and thinking, not just the crazy savagery.

[Blitz66]

I agree. And that's what I mean. The Joker wins the victories he does because of crazy savagery and thinking, not just the crazy savagery.

Also the inexplicable lack of willingness of a lot of people to kill him dead, or even fail to save his life sometimes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I do agree with the idea that sheer aggression will do a whole lot to win a conflict, which is what the 'savagery' thing was about, but it's not a magic bullet.

[Smokeskin]

This is the Internet. Use Google. It's not hard to find proper empirical tests of the one-inch punch. I'd post it myself, but I'm on my phone and typing with my thumbs, and it's a pain.

Yeah, it is amazing that people believe such myths in this day and age. Jamie hyneman from mythbusters could punch with twice the force of the world greatest ninja's one inch punch.

[Blitz66]

Yeah, it is amazing that people believe such myths in this day and age. Jamie hyneman from mythbusters could punch with twice the force of the world greatest ninja's one inch punch.

I see what you did there.

One-inch punch isn't difficult, it's effective, and has been demonstrated repeatedly. Sure, there are negative tests. They test some people who can't do it. But then there are positive tests, and when you're testing a technique that some know and some don't, you have to debunk the positive tests, because finding a million people who can't write a symphony is not proof that symphonies can't be written.

There are a lot of BS myths about martial arts. The idea that a lot of power can be generated in a short distance is not one of them. You are claiming to know more about kung fu than Bruce Lee, and it is amazing.

[KarmaInferno]

There are ways to achieve walking through security successfully without ditching 'ware. Opt for bioware and openly available cyberware, maybe permits for a few bits, and you're set. Not missing out on too much.

I just realized recently that there is, in fact, actual gear in Runner's Companion. I have had the book for ages now and only looked at the character options and qualities. Among other things, the MAD jammers and Magnetic Diffusion Shielding from the book pretty much mean that cyberware should rarely ever set off a MAD scanner.

The MAD jammer simply reduces the rating of the MAD scanner by it's rating, up to 3 points. The MDS subdermal sheathing increases the threshold needed to detect shielded equipment by it's rating, up to 3.

Since MAD scanners only go up to rating 3, potentially it has to score four successes on three dice. If the jammer is activated at the time of scanning, that's four hits needed on zero dice. It won't help against cyberware scanners, but most low to mid security places only use MAD scanners, since those are "good enough" for day-to-day.




-k

[HunterHerne]

Yeah, it is amazing that people believe such myths in this day and age. Jamie hyneman from mythbusters could punch with twice the force of the world greatest ninja's one inch punch.

I looked at those, and did some of my own research on other factors (like how hard it is to break a rib, etc.), and while no, the one inch punch may not be as powerful as a full punch, a trained person using it can be effective. And that's all it needs to be, is effective. You may not break their jaw, but if you crack a rib, they guy squeezing you to death will still likely back off a little.

[KarmaInferno]

A lot of people mistake One Inch Punch with Dim Mak or some other crazy devastating attack. Kill Bill showing one-inch punches breaking heavy wood planks probably does not help much.

It's an attack designed to stagger an opponent and catch him off guard. That's really all. You usually expect to follow it up with additional attacks while the opponent is recovering.



-k

[Smokeskin]

One-inch punch isn't difficult, it's effective, and has been demonstrated repeatedly. Sure, there are negative tests. They test some people who can't do it. But then there are positive tests, and when you're testing a technique that some know and some don't, you have to debunk the positive tests, because finding a million people who can't write a symphony is not proof that symphonies can't be written.

Sort of like how plenty of convincing demonstrations of mind reading have been carried out, and those experiences aren't cancelled by psychics not being able to do it out under controlled conditions?

Just to be clear, what sort of power do you (all one inch punch believers can reply) think a one inch punch creates? Is it like a good boxer's jab, or half that, or a cross?

[Blitz66]

You usually expect to follow it up with additional attacks while the opponent is recovering.

That's every attack.