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Krishach
post Jul 3 2012, 11:48 PM
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I'd like to discuss methods that GMs use that are NOT hard rule modifications and limitations to discourage or otherwise moderate what might be an unfair advantage.

I do NOT mean "I don't allow that." I do NOT mean "House rule." Rules and allowances are hard: they are black and white, yes or no.

Soft balancing is the GM using a (hopefully) believable downside to something in order to set things in perspective for a player, and make them weigh a decision. Sometimes, this just means enforcing a roleplaying downside that players (possibly at other tables) usually ignore. A player allergic to Watermelon would need to encounter some eventually, otherwise it is not balanced.

Other times, no overt downside exists. Metagenic improvement, for example, is an easy one to abuse. For 10 BP you can bump a stat maximum, and it's cheaper to bump a maximum than pay the 25BP cost of maxing. Hard balancing here would be the GM saying "NO" or "you must take a very-bad negative quality."

A soft balance would be the GM discussing with the player the unusual parts of the quality itself. "Ok, you can take metagenic body. As a mutation, it may affect how you look, or you might want to consider how regular people would perceive this. If a regular person sees you take a punch like a wall, or crush a baseball bat handle, or catch a paper wad thrown at your back, they may get more than impressed. They may be scared. Or they may be threatened by you, making you a target."

The above I define as "soft" because it has a modulating effect on the world around them, rather than stone-cold numbers change. A "hard" social enforcement would be as "freak sidebar," with dice negatives.

Another good example of "soft" modulating was mentioned in the discussion about the "In Debt" negative quality. The "soft" way that was mentioned was a loan shark revisiting you, offering you money, or interfering in your business, after the debt is payed (Falconer mentioned this I believe). There is zero dice pool change, and no threats are made to the players numbers (ie, legbreaking takes damage boxes), but still the player must live with the psychological pressure until karma is payed.



I would like to discuss GM uses and strategies for "soft" modulating in general, especially how it is used to prevent munchkin-ing. This is psychological manipulation typically without dice roll changes, and are not "hard" rules, either RAW or house. It will be easy to stray to "hard" manipulators on this thread, since "soft" is so much harder to work with, but I'd like to avoid them and just compile a list for those who like this concept, but have trouble with it. Like me.
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Posts in this topic
- Krishach   GM "soft balance"   Jul 3 2012, 11:48 PM
- - Raiki   Well, I employ what I feel is a particularly devio...   Jul 4 2012, 12:51 AM
- - Krishach   All those are hard rules though, that are convenie...   Jul 4 2012, 01:07 AM
|- - Raiki   QUOTE (Krishach @ Jul 3 2012, 08:07 PM) A...   Jul 4 2012, 01:12 AM
- - Krishach   Nice one. Dare I ask an example, or is it ban-wort...   Jul 4 2012, 02:35 AM
|- - Raiki   QUOTE (Krishach @ Jul 3 2012, 09:35 PM) N...   Jul 4 2012, 05:04 AM
- - Tanegar   One of my players, a dwarf technomancer, is playin...   Jul 4 2012, 03:32 AM
- - _Pax._   QUOTE (Krishach @ Jul 3 2012, 06:48 PM) M...   Jul 4 2012, 03:33 AM
- - Krishach   but that remembrance is the soft control I am talk...   Jul 4 2012, 04:25 AM
|- - Udoshi   QUOTE (Krishach @ Jul 3 2012, 09:25 PM) b...   Jul 5 2012, 07:13 PM
- - DuckEggBlue Omega   QUOTE (Krishach @ Jul 4 2012, 09:18 AM) A...   Jul 4 2012, 01:40 PM
- - Glyph   I would be careful about "soft balance"....   Jul 4 2012, 08:03 PM
|- - Krishach   QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 4 2012, 09:03 PM) You ...   Jul 5 2012, 02:24 AM
- - Umidori   My players are relatively new to SR and tend to be...   Jul 4 2012, 08:45 PM
|- - _Pax._   QUOTE (Umidori @ Jul 4 2012, 04:45 PM) [....   Jul 4 2012, 10:34 PM
|- - Udoshi   QUOTE (Umidori @ Jul 4 2012, 01:45 PM) Pu...   Jul 5 2012, 07:17 PM
- - Umidori   Well, he's not (currently) cybered. And his fo...   Jul 4 2012, 11:08 PM
- - _Pax._   Not everyone who practisses Sangre, is necessarily...   Jul 4 2012, 11:36 PM
- - Midas   QUOTE (Krishach @ Jul 4 2012, 12:48 AM) A...   Jul 5 2012, 07:32 AM
- - Umidori   Fun fact - silver can be found in numerous everyda...   Jul 5 2012, 10:48 AM
|- - _Pax._   QUOTE (Umidori @ Jul 5 2012, 06:48 AM) Fu...   Jul 5 2012, 07:03 PM
- - Tiralee   SR3 - so you know. I've had players try and m...   Jul 5 2012, 12:13 PM
- - Cheops   For me the ultimate of "soft balance" is...   Jul 5 2012, 03:23 PM
- - Yerameyahu   QUOTE Um. It's only 10BP if you take it as par...   Jul 5 2012, 07:13 PM
|- - _Pax._   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 5 2012, 02:13 PM)...   Jul 5 2012, 10:59 PM
|- - Glyph   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 5 2012, 11:13 AM)...   Jul 6 2012, 04:03 AM
|- - pbangarth   QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 5 2012, 11:03 PM) ... ...   Jul 6 2012, 04:37 AM
|- - _Pax._   QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 6 2012, 12:03 AM) GMs ...   Jul 6 2012, 05:58 AM
|- - NiL_FisK_Urd   QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Jul 6 2012, 06:58 AM) Sim...   Jul 6 2012, 08:12 AM
|- - _Pax._   QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Jul 6 2012, 04:12 A...   Jul 6 2012, 03:41 PM
- - Glyph   Okay, poorly phrased. I have no problem with GMs ...   Jul 6 2012, 07:08 AM
|- - Falconer   QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 6 2012, 02:08 AM) Okay...   Jul 8 2012, 05:00 AM
|- - toturi   QUOTE (Falconer @ Jul 8 2012, 01:00 PM) F...   Jul 8 2012, 05:20 AM
|- - Glyph   QUOTE (Falconer @ Jul 7 2012, 09:00 PM) A...   Jul 8 2012, 05:29 AM
- - Krishach   sigh. It's amazing how quickly this can get de...   Jul 7 2012, 01:09 AM
|- - toturi   QUOTE (Krishach @ Jul 7 2012, 09:09 AM) I...   Jul 8 2012, 04:40 AM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (toturi @ Jul 7 2012, 10:40 PM) I h...   Jul 8 2012, 05:55 PM
- - Yerameyahu   I guess that's one method: 'if you can...   Jul 8 2012, 04:41 AM
- - Krishach   your GM gave that to you? If one of my players cho...   Jul 9 2012, 05:31 AM
|- - toturi   QUOTE (Krishach @ Jul 9 2012, 01:31 PM) y...   Jul 9 2012, 06:26 AM
- - Neraph   I don't allow Spirit Bane (Watcher) in my game...   Jul 9 2012, 04:17 PM
|- - Saint Sithney   QUOTE (Neraph @ Jul 9 2012, 08:17 AM) I d...   Jul 10 2012, 04:49 AM
|- - toturi   QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Jul 10 2012, 12:49...   Jul 11 2012, 02:20 AM
- - Halinn   For all those times you aren't actively stealt...   Jul 9 2012, 06:18 PM
|- - _Pax._   QUOTE (Halinn @ Jul 9 2012, 02:18 PM) For...   Jul 9 2012, 06:39 PM
- - Yerameyahu   It's more that their stats are so thoughtlessl...   Jul 9 2012, 06:24 PM
- - NiL_FisK_Urd   You can use them as torture devices, or to taunt y...   Jul 9 2012, 06:30 PM
- - Halinn   A concerted effort of a dozen watcher spirits acti...   Jul 9 2012, 06:32 PM
- - ggodo   Someone tried to do that in one of my games, they ...   Jul 9 2012, 07:46 PM
|- - _Pax._   QUOTE (ggodo @ Jul 9 2012, 03:46 PM) Some...   Jul 10 2012, 12:35 AM
- - toturi   How do you as a GM expect your players to roleplay...   Jul 10 2012, 02:34 AM
- - Falconer   Don't look at me toturi. One of the biggest g...   Jul 10 2012, 03:01 AM
|- - _Pax._   QUOTE (Falconer @ Jul 9 2012, 10:01 PM) B...   Jul 10 2012, 03:23 AM
- - Yerameyahu   Yeah, I don't understand the question. Of cour...   Jul 10 2012, 03:12 AM
- - DMiller   Pax, I love this! -D   Jul 10 2012, 03:58 AM
- - Glyph   It's fairly easy to deal with someone with a l...   Jul 10 2012, 06:13 AM
|- - _Pax._   QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 10 2012, 01:13 AM) Log...   Jul 10 2012, 01:35 PM
|- - Cheops   QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 10 2012, 06:13 AM) Log...   Jul 10 2012, 03:41 PM
- - Neraph   QUOTE (Halinn @ Jul 9 2012, 01:18 PM) For...   Jul 10 2012, 03:18 PM
|- - _Pax._   QUOTE (Neraph @ Jul 10 2012, 10:18 AM) Ex...   Jul 10 2012, 05:51 PM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Jul 10 2012, 10:51 AM) A ...   Jul 10 2012, 06:23 PM
|- - NiL_FisK_Urd   QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Jul 10 2012, 06:51 PM) As...   Jul 10 2012, 06:29 PM
||- - _Pax._   QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Jul 10 2012, 02:29 ...   Jul 10 2012, 06:39 PM
|- - Neraph   QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Jul 10 2012, 12:51 PM) A ...   Jul 11 2012, 02:51 PM
- - Yerameyahu   I mean, it's still pretty shabby, which was my...   Jul 10 2012, 06:27 PM
|- - _Pax._   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 10 2012, 02:27 PM...   Jul 10 2012, 06:40 PM
- - Yerameyahu   Ha, that's a big difference! They'll o...   Jul 10 2012, 06:33 PM
- - Yerameyahu   It'd be easy to just say 'they can't f...   Jul 10 2012, 06:49 PM
- - Krishach   Glyph and _.Pax._, in our gaming group, we do both...   Jul 10 2012, 10:27 PM
- - Saint Sithney   The text QUOTE they may be reluctant to obey or pe...   Jul 11 2012, 10:32 AM
- - NiL_FisK_Urd   QUOTE ("SR4A @ p.135")When an enti...   Jul 11 2012, 03:05 PM
- - Neraph   Ahh, I assumed Teamwork Test.   Jul 11 2012, 03:42 PM
- - _Pax._   Thank you, NiL. That is precisely what I was thin...   Jul 11 2012, 03:42 PM
- - Jeremiah Kraye   See I would love to as a GM, see a low logic playe...   Jul 11 2012, 04:57 PM
|- - StealthSigma   QUOTE (Jeremiah Kraye @ Jul 11 2012, 12:5...   Jul 11 2012, 06:26 PM
- - binarywraith   The biggest piece of 'soft balance' I have...   Jul 14 2012, 05:50 PM
|- - Glyph   QUOTE (Jeremiah Kraye @ Jul 11 2012, 08:5...   Jul 14 2012, 06:15 PM
||- - toturi   QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 15 2012, 02:15 AM) Tha...   Jul 15 2012, 03:01 AM
|- - Krishach   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 14 2012, 05:50 ...   Jul 15 2012, 12:31 AM
- - Yerameyahu   No, they're already wearing it because logic.   Jul 15 2012, 04:28 AM
|- - toturi   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 15 2012, 12:28 PM...   Jul 15 2012, 04:48 AM
- - NiL_FisK_Urd   They don't wear it because one group of crimin...   Jul 15 2012, 07:41 AM
- - Glyph   The "if you can, I can" approach to game...   Jul 15 2012, 09:00 AM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 15 2012, 03:00 AM) The...   Jul 15 2012, 11:41 AM
||- - Halinn   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 15 2012, 01:41 ...   Jul 15 2012, 01:12 PM
|- - StealthSigma   QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 15 2012, 05:00 AM) The...   Jul 16 2012, 12:45 PM
- - Yerameyahu   At least pretend to make sense if you're going...   Jul 15 2012, 01:14 PM
|- - pbangarth   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 15 2012, 08:14 AM...   Jul 15 2012, 08:45 PM
|- - toturi   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 15 2012, 09:14 PM...   Jul 15 2012, 11:22 PM
- - Yerameyahu   It's cheap (and they probably get a huge disco...   Jul 15 2012, 11:29 PM
|- - toturi   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 16 2012, 07:29 AM...   Jul 16 2012, 03:45 AM
- - Falconer   Actually this is a little anti-intuitive. But ma...   Jul 16 2012, 12:04 AM
|- - bannockburn   QUOTE (Falconer @ Jul 16 2012, 02:04 AM) ...   Jul 16 2012, 12:12 AM
- - Yerameyahu   Hahaha, Falconer.   Jul 16 2012, 12:34 AM
- - Yerameyahu   That's absurd. I know you're just having f...   Jul 16 2012, 03:51 AM
|- - toturi   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 16 2012, 11:51 AM...   Jul 16 2012, 05:00 AM
- - Falconer   Yera: Because most low life style cheap guards a...   Jul 16 2012, 04:07 AM
- - pbangarth   Come on guys, the job ads clearly state the Corpor...   Jul 16 2012, 04:10 AM
- - Yerameyahu   I guess, Falconer, though that hardly seems cost-e...   Jul 16 2012, 12:50 PM
- - StealthSigma   QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 16 2012, 08:50 AM...   Jul 16 2012, 01:59 PM
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