Storm Front is out!, Leading to SR5! Options

[ShadowDragon8685]

Ah in that case, I'll throw a curveball and say they'll off Frosty, death by dragon.
Why?
Because literally every canon character likes her, it will stir up some major shit, push Harl down new venues and has a lot more shockvalue then ol' Jack.

Really? Even Clockwork likes her?

Because I don't think he likes anybody but himself. Jack's torqued off at her after she backed out of writing up the dragon missive to do something else, too. (Though he probably still likes her.)


That said, yeah. Some wyrm offing Frosty would... Well, there wouldn't be a shortage of people lining up to take a shot at them for free, let alone to be paid to get vengeance.

[CanRay]

"Mungo, did you hack Mars?" "Ya, an' I'z haxxor'd Snickers, two!"

[Wakshaani]

Well, sometimes Mungo feels like a nut, sometimes he don't.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Small note. People keep mentioning cruise missiles vs dragons. This has been addressed in the books. Pretty sure it was Clutch (( could be wrong. I got a stack of books lately and don't read cover to cover. I bounce around alot)), but in short form they point out that targeting something the size of a dragon with a cruise missile is next to impossible, and they're launched and have travel time to the great, where in the great's spirit buddies can give it a nudge. One nudge on something moving that fast and you miss the dragon and take out Monaco or something. Or the spirit just jumps infront of it and shreds it. etc.

I forget the exact wording, I was skimming looking for something else. I just remember seeing it, and people keep acting like Cruise missiles are just an "i win' button. They've been addressed in the game vs dragon. Someone with more time (( and want)) can find the exact wording. My point is that in the game they say that one doesn't work. They go on at length about Orbital weapons though.

Edit: I pulled up Clutch and did a word find. Found it.

It starts on page 127, when Pistons basicly says "Why do we need special dragon weapons. Just use this and this and this and this and cruise missles.

it goes over onto 128 with people talking about why most conventional weapons have little hope against dragons, then Orbital DK pops in with

"Dragons tend to be too small and too fast moving to be ideal targets for cruise missiles, which are usually used on highvalue targets like bluewater naval vessels, command bunkers, bridges, etcetera. Cruise missiles move really fast but they also tend to be launched from very, very far away, giving dragons time to take evasive maneuvers, relocate, and/or prepare magical defenses. Thor shots have almost none of these problems, granted—the issue with them is more of an issue of collateral damage. Using a Thor shot over even the most sparsely populated territory of a nation with any global infl uence at all is just begging for a PR nightmare, and the Corporate Court doesn’t like it when orbital weapons platforms aren’t used without majority consent, which even in a wireless age can be diffi cult to obtain in a tactical timeframe.
> Orbital DK "

Not saying it's 'right' or 'wrong'. Just saying in "Shadowrun science" it's been directly addressed and pardon the pun, shot down.

[Pepsi Jedi]

As for the rest of it. I'm really looking forward to the book. I love the fluff bits far more than crunch.

Dragon's slugging it out, is always fun. Especially when they roll around in cities and stuff while doing it.

I'm utterly amazed noone's shot Brakhaven in the face yet. Hope he gets abused by a very large troll.

Am I the only one that hopes Ghostwalker and Harle just take each other out? I'm kinda tired of them both.

The plague might be the infected's stuff intensifying. The sunlight allergy and the cravings and stuff. Hannabell is suffering from it. And she's on Jackpoint.

The end of the war... I'm calling a 'Team up' to take out Sirrung. The first attack is going ok but then the dragon starts to win and they team up to take him out. Forming a rather unwanted truce.

I'm not sure that he'll die. he might run.

The Ghostwalker/Harle thing is going to be 'earth shaking'... again. I kinda hope they just take each other out but I doubt either one of them die.

I don't see them giving stats for Sirrung.. just to kill him. Why do you need plotpoint stats if the guy dies in the same book?

As for the Departure.... Fastjack is the obvious 'guess', which makes me think that it's too obvious. Could be a number of people. Or, with all the lead up they've been doing, with/about Fastjack. It might be exactly what we think. The 'how' is in question. "Departure' is a curious word because it'd have been alot easier to just write "Death of a beloved Shadowrun character". They didn't. They Chose Departure.

[bannockburn]

Yes. Departure of Lofwyr to Mars! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, sometimes Mungo feels like a nut, sometimes he don't.

*Shakes Head*

[hermit]

I'm utterly amazed noone's shot Brakhaven in the face yet.

Worse real life politicans are still alive as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The end of the war... I'm calling a 'Team up' to take out Sirrung.

You are aware Sirrug is part of the Amazonian government, are you.

Am I the only one that hopes Ghostwalker and Harle just take each other out? I'm kinda tired of them both.

I'd rather see the plot move away from DragonballZ like combat between super NPC.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Worse real life politicans are still alive as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Ehhh, not worse ones in the US. Worse ones in Shadowrun could be argued. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You are aware Sirrug is part of the Amazonian government, are you.

No, not really, he's been off doing his own thing almost from the very start. He's been deemed a terrorist by both sides. He just tends to perform Teorristic actions that can be argued to benefit Amazonia at times. He's even attacked his own troops and I'm pretty sure (( Not 100% but pretty sure)) That even Amazonia has distanced themselves from him due to the nature of his attacks on civilians and even their own troops.

I'd rather see the plot move away from DragonballZ like combat between super NPC.

I'm not quite sure of your meaning but I think I agree. I'd just rather the both of them be handled. It's like all the North American powers cower in fear of Ghostwalker. I'm tired of that. Harle, just too long in the tooth.

[Nath]

You are aware Sirrug is part of the Amazonian government, are you.

Sirrurg took a part in the military operations that toppled the Brazilian government, but he doesn't appear to hold any official position. He is a hero and leader of the revolution, and holds a great deal of influence, but he is basically just a revered guest of the government. Hualpa seems to be a sort of "Supreme Leader," like Grand Ayatollah Khomeini and Khamenei in Iran, overseeing if the elected president and government stay true to the ideal of the revolution.

Sixth World Almanac, page 200-201
While Hualpa sits at the top of the Amazonian government, he’s not alone in his influence. Sirrurg is rumored to make his home in Amazonia, and he has his claws deep in its infrastructure either way. [...]
In addition to dragons, Amazonia has its share of institutional governance, but the elected government is irrevocably stuck between Hualpa’s talons. The president and congress both are loath to work against Hualpa’s interests. There is an opposition party, but in the opinions of most the party is another puppet manipulated by Hualpa.

War!, page 45
I heard that Silveira got called to Manaus to explain his actions to the Amazonian government and could have been punished severely for the crimes, but rumors suggest Sirrurg intervened with key officials in the government and got the inquiry killed. It is interesting to see where certain loyalties lie. And it is also interesting to see that even after Cali, Sirrurg still holds political influence in Amazonia.

If I were to end this plot in a way that causes minimal changes to the setting, Aztlan would kill Sirrurg, and then agree with Hualpa and the Amazonian government to put the whole blame on him and the terrorist organization he led for the war, the destruction of Cali, Managua and even the parliament of Bogotá.

[hermit]

Ehhh, not worse ones in the US.

Are you being ironic?

No, not really, he's been off doing his own thing almost from the very start. He's been deemed a terrorist by both sides. He just tends to perform Teorristic actions that can be argued to benefit Amazonia at times.

Shadowrun is not part of the Clancyverse. Stop treating it as such. Besides, it's not like firing drone-launched missiles into crowds is so mich different from setting off bombs in crowds.

That even Amazonia has distanced themselves from him due to the nature of his attacks on civilians and even their own troops.

Amazonia what what? Hestaby did that. Amazonia never.

[Wakshaani]

I'm trying to think of what the body count is. I know at least two deaths that no one has even speculated on yet, but there's probably more.

Shadowrun's killed off CEOs, immortal Elves, presidents, dragons, presidential dragons ... nobody's safe.

(And I mean that last part. When Storm Front was first offered, it was noted that no one had plot armor. When asked if this meant that someone could kill (redacted), they were told, "If you make a good enough pitch? Yes." Every head was on the line.)

[Pepsi Jedi]

Are you being ironic?


Shadowrun is not part of the Clancyverse. Stop treating it as such. Besides, it's not like firing drone-launched missiles into crowds is so mich different from setting off bombs in crowds.


Amazonia what what? Hestaby did that. Amazonia never.

No. I'm being serious.

He's a frigging dragon that is targeting civilians and nations. I'm not sure what your jab about a Clancyverse is supposed to mean. He's agreed to be a draconic Terrorist that kills anyone around him, including 'friendly' forces.

And yeah, they've distanced themselves. the Lizard is nuts. lol

[Nath]

I'm trying to think of what the body count is. I know at least two deaths that no one has even speculated on yet, but there's probably more.

Indeed. The teaser only mentions "the departure of a beloved character". That did not leave us with a lot of characters to speculate on, and no reason to think there could be any casualties among "non-beloved" characters.

[Wakshaani]

No. I'm being serious.

He's a frigging dragon that is targeting civilians and nations. I'm not sure what your jab about a Clancyverse is supposed to mean. He's agreed to be a draconic Terrorist that kills anyone around him, including 'friendly' forces.

And yeah, they've distanced themselves. the Lizard is nuts. lol

Sirrurg isn't nuts. He's just, you know.

Sirrurg. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But, yeah, even his allies stepped back after the first mass death incident and went, "Uhm, bro? Not cool bro." After Puerto Rico, they were in full-on "NOT COOL, BRO! Not cool at ALL!" territory.

Blowing up a nation's food chain pretty well metasizes Party Foul.

[hermit]

I'm not sure what your jab about a Clancyverse is supposed to mean. He's agreed to be a draconic Terrorist that kills anyone around him, including 'friendly' forces.

I'm refering to the fact that the CIA uses drones just as indscriminately and that other US armed branches (and, for that matter, other western forces) aren't as preoccupied with loss of civilian life on the other side as Clancyverse books make them out to be, and yet neither of these countries consider their armed forces terrorists, which they should by your standards.

Neither ist someone who destroys a hated enemy, civilians included, automatically a terrorist. Think of WW2, Vietnam ... just because someone blows up lots of civilians, either through carelessness, bad intelligence, or as part of a 'shock and awe' style war effort (see the Russians in Grozny in Cehchnya 2, for instance) automatically a terrorist. And Sirrug is part of a national military, not a non-governmental actor, anyway.

But, yeah, even his allies stepped back after the first mass death incident and went, "Uhm, bro? Not cool bro." After Puerto Rico, they were in full-on "NOT COOL, BRO! Not cool at ALL!" territory.

That's a far cry from "We'll help our hated enemies to kill him because he was killing them!" That's "please Sirrug, would you mind not damagin our own war effort by dragging everyone in on Aztlan's side, THANKS! Signed, Hualpa and X." Nothing more.

Blowing up a nation's food chain pretty well metasizes Party Foul.

Agent Orange, anyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Nath]

And Sirrug is part of a national military, not a non-governmental actor, anyway.

No. He isn't. You could classify him at best as irregular troop, and it seems he barely bother to coordinate with the Amazonian armed forces. If you want to make a comparison, he's closer to an Afghan or Iraqi militia leader, who attends a meeting with US officer when he wants to, than to an actual Predator drone, remotely controlled.

War!, page 28
M’Boi may have played a pivotal role in learning about Sirrurg’s plans for Cali before the attack was launched, and he also worked to marshal the Amazonian forces around Cali, so that once the attack occurred, Amazonia could force their way into the city with superior forces and take it.

War!, page 30
And predictably, in 2073, Sirrurg once again resurfaced. The first appearance he had made in years was in an attack on the Aztlan military base in Cali in January. And he wasn’t alone. Trid recordings of the incident showed him leading a large-scale attack, composed of a half dozen other feathered serpents, a dozen or so wyverns, and a large horde of drakes, spirits, lindworms as well as various well-known (some say, infamous) members of GreenWar and mercenaries for hire.

War!, page 42
Sirrurg, GreenWar, and Primeira Vaga are the perfect examples of this type of wild card. What Sirrurg and his eco-terrorist groups have been doing up to this point has been mostly favorable to Amazonia, but their ultimate goals are distinct from Amazonia’s goals, and you cannot trust Sirrurg to always do things that are in line with Amazonia’s best interests.

[Ixal]

Hi everyone a (not so) long time lurker wants to join the jolly speculation.

The Great Dragon

Imo most likely Sirrug
- His hidden story is quite clear that he will lose to Aztlan.
- His dead will not have that much impact on the setting (what has he done before the current story arc? Crashed a plane?).

If its not Sirrug then imo Alamais or Lofwyr. Those two have a final battle in their hidden story. If it is one of them more likely Alamias. Less impact on the setting and in the story his forces are through the bench described as superior and in most literature in such situations the underdog wins.
If Catalyst really wants to rock the boat then of course Lofwyr dies (but from the book description someone else will be responsible for the world shaking event).

Ghostwalker and Hestaby are also a faint possibility. Ghostwalker because of his conflict with Harlequin and Hestaby because according to Twitter she doesn't reside at Shasta any more. Dead? Moved? Who knows. (My inner Plan9 says Lofwyr dies and he made provisions to have Hestaby take over SK after his dead. He does seem to have a lot of respect for her ever since Survival of the fittest).

Az-AM Conflict

Jackpoint says that Aztlan is in control of Bogotá. That sounds like a victory to me. Aztlan seems to be on a roll.

The Brackhaven Scandal

I haven't followed that plot too much. Anyone an idea what the scandal is?

The beloved character to die

I don't think this refers to a Great Dragon. Lofwyr might get the fans talking. But beloved?
It could be Harlequin being killed in his conflict with Ghostwalker. Although Lionhearted's idea of Frosty being killed also makes sense. Harlequin made it clear to Ghostwalker that all gloves are off. Why shouldn't Ghostwalker retiliate in kind?
But I also think Fastjack is a good guess. This guy is old and would die soon anyway and we do know that there is a bigger Matrix plot going on, too with GOD taking over the security of the Matrix and AIs overwriting the consciousness of matrix users (think E-Shedim). See the "Whats up with Fastjack" thread for more speculations. As soon as they are done talking about sentient vampire bees.

[BishopMcQ]

Frosty will die. This brings the rest of the universe back into continuity with my game, when the characters "accidentally" hit her with a bus during the DotA arc.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Frosty will die. This brings the rest of the universe back into continuity with my game, when the characters "accidentally" hit her with a bus during the DotA arc.

There's a good story behind this. Please tell.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I'm refering to the fact that the CIA uses drones just as indscriminately

No... they don't. Not even close. Where a drone might take out a car that a terrorist is in, it doesn't take out the entire city or region. Your hyperbolic statement makes it absurd.

and that other US armed branches (and, for that matter, other western forces) aren't as preoccupied with loss of civilian life on the other side as Clancyverse books make them out to be,

They're mo0re preoccupied than just opening up on people randomly, including their own troops and mowing them down with out caring. Yes 'friendly fire' incidents happen. Sirrung's weren't friendly fire incidents. He just killed them and didn't care. He wasn't confused and thought they were the enemy. He killed indiscriminately.

and yet neither of these countries consider their armed forces terrorists, which they should by your standards.

The dragon is one being (Now leading his accepted 'Ecoterrorist forces and mercenaries" He's not a government, nor a country. He popped up and continues to pop up and yes, carry out terroristic attacks against nations and corps (Defacto nations)

Neither ist someone who destroys a hated enemy, civilians included, automatically a terrorist.

No. When you conduct numerous terrorist actions, you're a terrorist.

Think of WW2, Vietnam ... just because someone blows up lots of civilians, either through carelessness, bad intelligence, or as part of a 'shock and awe' style war effort (see the Russians in Grozny in Cehchnya 2, for instance) automatically a terrorist. And Sirrug is part of a national military, not a non-governmental actor, anyway.

NO, he's not. You keep acting like he is, but he's not. He MANIPULATES parts of government but he's not a part of it. There have been many quotes just today to that effect that you're ignoring. He conducts acts that sometimes benefit a nation but he's not part of the government. Noone voted for him. he's not an accepted leader. Military or otherwise. He's a great dragon that pretty much is using the nations wars with one another as a very thin excuse to slaughter people. He doesn't take orders from the nation or command or anything. He's doing his own thing. look at the quotes put up by Nath. They clearly point out he's not part of the nation. But acts sometimes in conjunction.

That's a far cry from "We'll help our hated enemies to kill him because he was killing them!" That's "please Sirrug, would you mind not damagin our own war effort by dragging everyone in on Aztlan's side, THANKS! Signed, Hualpa and X." Nothing more.

No. I don't think so. He's gone beyond the pale and even the people that were once glad for his help are pushing him away as if he's radioactive. As he is. For the exact reason you said, everyone sees him as an insane great dragon Terrorist who's attacking nations and conducting terroristic activity. The only thing that's kept others out of it this long is WHO he was targeting. The "Bad guy" but still.

As shown by the online content and what not, people have had enough. They're trying to take him out and noone's running to his aid.

Agent Orange, anyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Wasn't used on -ALL- of the nations crops/food supplys, to try andd starve them. It was used on the jungle to defoliate to prevent the guerrilla style attacks.

[hermit]

- His dead will not have that much impact on the setting (what has he done before the current story arc? Crashed a plane?).

And a train. He was hunting for down-cycle dragon killers.

My inner Plan9 says Lofwyr dies and he made provisions to have Hestaby take over SK after his dead. He does seem to have a lot of respect for her ever since Survival of the fittest

Hunh.

[ChromeZephyr]

The departed character is Damien Knight, who's killed in the final bug takeover of Ares.

Oh, wait, it said beloved character. Yeah, it's Jack, carry on. Though I dearly hope he's the one that realizes what's going on, and also that he's been compromised. So he posts the missive on JackPoint telling everyone what the scope is while fighting the thing taking over his brain, then with his last bit of willpower flatlines himself.

Having a Fastjack meatpuppet will piss me right the fuck off.

[Pepsi Jedi]

What -IS- going on with Ares?(And where can I find it to read?) I remember they had the sabotaged gun roll out that looked bad but some of the web content and stuff seem to be hinting that they got hit so hard that they might lose triple A status? One botched product by a --Megacorp-- isn't going to cause that much of a problem. You pay your spindoctors and roll out a product in the next cycle.

[Ixal]

What -IS- going on with Ares?(And where can I find it to read?) I remember they had the sabotaged gun roll out that looked bad but some of the web content and stuff seem to be hinting that they got hit so hard that they might lose triple A status? One botched product by a --Megacorp-- isn't going to cause that much of a problem. You pay your spindoctors and roll out a product in the next cycle.

Good question. The lore seems to indicate that Ares is in a tight spot because of Excalibur. But as you said, one bad product shouldn't affect an AAA that much, even when it is their core industry. Still Ares has problems and is willing to do something desperate. See the "Ares" hidden story for more details

But I wouldn't worry about them loosing the AAA status. For that they are featured too prominently on the SR5 cover.