Dark Terrors is now available. Options

[Wakshaani]

Obligatory link:

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/227446...Plot-Sourcebook

Magical stuff! Matrix stuff! Corporate stuff! Lots and lots of lore going on in this one. Let's see what you think!

[Prime Mover]

Just spotted this on DTrpg, been needing a good read.

[Stahlseele]

A Player Insect-Spirit . . really now?

[Prime Mover]

Kill it with fire !

[Prime Mover]

First quick look through.

Black Lodge has been a favorite boogeyman of mine for a long time. Used them maybe half dozen times as the man behind the curtain. Best part being the pc's have never put all pieces together so they get to be a reacurring villain. Glad to have an update on them.

I may be in the minority but I'm happy to see the dark god/horror stuff. Wish had gotten some stats along with descriptions.

[Wakshaani]

First quick look through.

Black Lodge has been a favorite boogeyman of mine for a long time. Used them maybe half dozen times as the man behind the curtain. Best part being the pc's have never put all pieces together so they get to be a reacurring villain. Glad to have an update on them.

I may be in the minority but I'm happy to see the dark god/horror stuff. Wish had gotten some stats along with descriptions.

Hope to fix that in the future. Depends on how popular it is. If demand grows, we can see more getting dribbled out.

I have high hopes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Jack_Spade]

So far, I like the fact that you now can just hack CFD away, although I'm confused why that wasn't possible before. I'll have to carefully read that chapter again, but I'm pretty sure, that a teamworked agent rig should be able to clean up CFD with relative ease.

[Stahlseele]

So, yay for the old man of Jackpoint coming back?

[JanessaVR]

As a big SR/ED crossover fan, it sounds like there's info on the Horrors in this book. For those fans of my persuasion, is this a good buy? I'm not the biggest fan of 5e, but I loved that part of Forbidden Arcana; a real old school discussion with the dragons and IEs on the Horrors.

[Kesendeja]

No actual stat blocks, but plenty of info on them and the cults that worship them. At least from what I've read so far.

[Wakshaani]

As a big SR/ED crossover fan, it sounds like there's info on the Horrors in this book. For those fans of my persuasion, is this a good buy? I'm not the biggest fan of 5e, but I loved that part of Forbidden Arcana; a real old school discussion with the dragons and IEs on the Horrors.

Well, there's certainly a lot of cultists calling upon powers that they don't understand. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The FA stuff went over so well that Dark Terrors had a big section on them added and it was moved ahead in the schedule to take advantage of the good reviews that FA got. You might also notice a lot of names from FA are also in DT.

So... you could say that the storyline is continued and expanded on. There're some callbacks in there to older works as well.

[JanessaVR]

Right, I'm sold. I'll go get a copy from DTRPG.

[Iduno]

So far, I like the fact that you now can just hack CFD away, although I'm confused why that wasn't possible before. I'll have to carefully read that chapter again, but I'm pretty sure, that a teamworked agent rig should be able to clean up CFD with relative ease.

I think it was described as nanites rewiring your brain, and the nanites were powered by powerful AIs. You couldn't hack them, because they were better deckers, and if you took them out with an EMP, the person you tried to save already stopped existing.

As to why you can now? Mistake, retcon, or mistake that they'll stick by (both).

[Longes]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dark Magic is literally just Black Magic, isn't it?

[Stahlseele]

No, Black Magic is harmless. Voodoo/Satanism etc.

Dark Magic is things like Blood Magic, Toxic Magic and Insetc Spirits.
Necromancy as of this book as well it seems . .

[Sengir]

HMHVV has been said to have existed in the Fourth Age by those few creatures known to have existed then.

Wait, the ED crossover is IC knowledge for Jackpointers now?

[Longes]

No, Black Magic is harmless. Voodoo/Satanism etc.

Dark Magic is things like Blood Magic, Toxic Magic and Insetc Spirits.
Necromancy as of this book as well it seems . .

No Stahlseele, there is a Dark Magic tradition in Dark Terrors...

Wait, the ED crossover is IC knowledge for Jackpointers now?

Why not, Dunkelzahn, Lofwyr and Harlequin all shitposted on Jackpoint and lived in the 4th age. But also HMHVV and vampires weren't a thing in Earthdawn so whatevs. Personally, I'm more annoyed that instead of being the game about stealing shit from megacorporations the writers want it to be about ANCIENT HORRORS and YE OLDE ELMINSTERS OF OLDE MAGIK and WORLD-ENDING THREATS!!!111

[JanessaVR]

Personally, I'm more annoyed that instead of being the game about stealing shit from megacorporations the writers want it to be about ANCIENT HORRORS and YE OLDE ELMINSTERS OF OLDE MAGIK and WORLD-ENDING THREATS!!!111

Speak for yourself - I'm far more happy with the Fourth World connections than yet another "let's break in somewhere and steal some stuff" adventure.

[Longes]

Speak for yourself - I'm far more happy with the Fourth World connections than yet another "let's break in somewhere and steal some stuff" adventure.

But why? How does the information about vampires existing in the pre-historic Ukraine makes the game better?

[JanessaVR]

But why? How does the information about vampires existing in the pre-historic Ukraine makes the game better?

If you're asking that question, you haven't read much of Earthdawn. It was a very rich setting, and its links to modern Shadowrun make the Sixth Age all the better as we not only get to see what came before, but what is likely to happen again, especially as many of the movers and shakers of the Fourth Age are still around (and still making the same mistakes, or are at least up their usual shenanigans). The Sixth World is barely awake - not even a century - and the real wonders and terrors are still to come. But they're starting to get hints of them, as more and more of the past is unearthed.

[Sengir]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dark Magic is literally just Black Magic, isn't it?

It's more or less the old (SR4) Black Magic tradition, which basically was just straight LaVey Satanism. Somebody obviously did not like that description, because Street Grimoire straight out tells you to throw Crowley and LaVey out the window and shifts the portrayal of Black Magic into some weird psycho cult. Now the old description is back, but since the old name was already taken it'S been rebranded from "Black" to "Dark". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

After that wrecking ball through the fourth wall (and noticing that PG is not on the list of authors) I was curious how the rest of the Infected chapter would work out, but it's not that bad. Mostly fluff on the current state of affairs, useful but the list of countries and companies working with Infected seems a bit disjointed and random. Then there is a travelogue from a day trip to Asamando (Red is the one who throws up in the vampire bar), and finally a few new qualities and new optional powers for various Infected...I like the concept of Infected gradually developing powers, more options for more variance is always nice.

The bad:
First of all the section on Tamanous...these guys have always suffered from not having a realistic business model, with cheap bioware abound there is no reason to get a non-augmented kidney from a corpse. This book doubles down on that, now Tamanous doesn't just harvest corpses but keeps them alive in intensive care, which would make them even less competitive. "Worse still is Seed Operations" -- true statement, but not in the way the author intended. Seed Operations is the name for using comatose bodies as incubators for new clones, the stated reason being "It’s cheaper than artificial wombs" -- I'm assuming this was not written by an American, say what you want about the US health system but it does not give people illusions about the cost of intensive care (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
If you're looking for grimdark this section certainly delivers, I have long hoped for body banks that make sense and will have to continue hoping.

Secondly and somewhat related, the list of Infected feeding options includes this:
Clonal Donors: A common question among many people of the world is, “Why don’t we just clone a lot of meat for ghouls?” The problem is the incredible cost involved. Clones are prohibitively expensive to produce, and the necessary facilities are difficult to maintain.
No, clones are not "prohibitively expensive". Wimps are in mass production and individual clonal organs (aka bioware) are something every street doc buys in volume. If you believe Chrome Flesh, nowadays even puny gold-level customers of DW get a "donor counterpart". The reason you don't just clone a lot of meat for ghouls is that they need meat which once used to be part of a living, sapient metahuman, wimps and petri dishes don't work.


Spoilers from peeking at the next chapter: Twist is back, but nobody seems to care much when hearing a barely averted nuclear armageddon...runners are a hardened bunch, I guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[JanessaVR]

The reason you don't just clone a lot of meat for ghouls is that they need meat which once used to be part of a living, sapient metahuman, wimps and petri dishes don't work.

And I've argued even that excuse doesn't make much sense.

[Jaid]

Wait, the ED crossover is IC knowledge for Jackpointers now?

i doubt it's even remotely explicit that it is earthdawn, for one thing, and yes, jackpoint knows about the fourth world's existence... everyone who cares to know, knows, it's a standard part of the theory of mana cycles which is in a published book (i think written by ehran the scribe - though nothing i'm aware of indicates that people are any more aware that ehran or other non-dragon beings have personal experience of mana cycles).

and yes, people know of living beings that were in the 4th world... for example, any dragon that was around right when the 6th world started, and some free spirits. actually, that's probably most of the people that they know existed in the 4th world that are still alive, truthfully.

as to how much jackpoint knows about the 4th world, that i don't know. that it existed? sure, absolutely. that should be common knowledge. knowing about the horrors? well, they've probably seen some hints that something is up, if only from certain people talking about the significance of shedim and insect spirits showing up. i doubt they have a proper understanding though.

[Sengir]

And I've argued even that excuse doesn't make much sense.

I'd say your argument is just rephrasing the design rationale for everything involving Essence: It's not there for aesthetic reasons or because there was a requirement for a certain number of capital Es in the books. It's a balance mechanism, and it plays just the same rule for Ghouls. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

i doubt it's even remotely explicit that it is earthdawn, for one thing, and yes, jackpoint knows about the fourth world's existence... everyone who cares to know, knows, it's a standard part of the theory of mana cycles which is in a published book (i think written by ehran the scribe - though nothing i'm aware of indicates that people are any more aware that ehran or other non-dragon beings have personal experience of mana cycles).

Not quite public, but probably known to Jackpointers. From Tir Tairngire:
The Fourth World ties into a theory that's been knocking around for a decade or so now. Supposedly, the theory sprang from a private lecture Ehran the Scribe gave to a group of young elves technologists [not capitalized, strangely enough] some time back. Someone pirated the trideo and it's been making the covert rounds. Ehran tried to have it squashed, with minimal success.

But "HMHVV has been said to have existed in the Fourth Age by those few creatures known to have existed then" implies IEs or dragons going on record saying "yep, it's all true, now ask me anything". And letting slip actual details about the past, let alone certain "problems" coming up, have always been a big no-no...knowledge only is power as long as you have it exclusively, so even Big D had to keep his maw shut.

[lokii]

Humanity learnt quite a bit from the Dunkelzahn interviews. The concept of "awakening" itself came from comments he made back in the early years of the Sixth World. The short story "Wyrm Talk" discusses the issue of Dunkelzahn oversharing. It is probably true that he knew how to toe the line, as (likely) Lofwyr put it when he reprimanded his peers (Portfolio of a Dragon, p. 55):

Enough, both of you. You have revealed more in a scant few seconds on Shadowland than Dunkelzahn said in all of his inane broadcasts.

I think it is certainly possible that Dunkelzahn or a differect dragon shared whether vampires existed in a prior age at some point. Maybe in a throw-away anecdote how he once accidently tasted a vampire and cannot recommend it. After all what's the harm? The scientific community wouldn't accept that as definitive proof anyway.

Regarding the existence of a prior magical era I think that was always regarded as one potential explanation for the origin of creatures like dragons and why they appear in human mythology. By the early 2060s when Elijah calls the theory of manacycles a "popular (though unproven) hypothesis" I thinks he refers to the perception that is shared in academic circles. From Loose Alliances, p. 75:

Dunkelzahn made numerous comments in public and private regarding "an earlier age," and if you believe the rumors several of the other great dragons have done the same. Nevertheless, the dragons have refused to answer direct questions on the matter (at least in public), and seem to share a common opinion that metahumans just have to figure out their history by themselves.