 The Sample Characters, We can do better! |
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 Dec 19 2007, 07:33 PM
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#76
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386  |
Oops; thanks for mentioning it. The two power points went into Kinesics 4, which is why I said that it's a better Face than most Faces. If that seems bothersome or overkill it can easily be tossed into Combat Senses or whatever else you think won't step on the toes of another archetype. And before anyone flips out, yes, you can use your full magic total for determining the limit on Adept power ratings as a Mystic Adept, you just can't use the full magic score for any dice rolls using your Magic attribute. One thing I'm a li'l fuzzy on is whether or not you use the full Magic attribute to determine overcasting limits and when drain i stun or physical. I would lean towards using the full attribute, personally, since no dice pool is involved there, but I've been wrong before. It doesn't strongly affect this build though, since it Force 3 & 4 Spirits are the workhorses I was shooting for and because my self-imposed Augmentation restriction rules out trauma dampers regardless. |
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Dec 19 2007, 07:45 PM
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#77
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 8-November 07 Member No.: 14,097 |
I'm pretty sure that only the Magic points spent towards spellcasting are used for the purpose of limiting the Force of spells you can cast (and thus determine whether the drain is Stun or Physical), but I don't have a book handy to verify. |
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Dec 19 2007, 07:51 PM
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#78
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
Yeah, it says magic linked skills, so I dunno. Regardless, it's not that big of a deal. I designed the character around the assumption that a Force 4 Spirit would represent the pinnacle of the character's overcasting abilities and that the drain would be physical anyway. Besides, the character's only got 8 dice for summoning tests, so I wouldn't recommend going higher than Force 3 or 4 to begin with. I'm still divided on bothering with binding for the character; it has a decent Edge pool to work with though, so it should work out, especially once the character buys a specialization for their preferred workhorse spirit.
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Dec 19 2007, 09:16 PM
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#79
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Yes on the Community Project!
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Dec 19 2007, 11:48 PM
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#80
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
The rulebook says that you use the full Magic for that purpose, but the FAQ says you only use your Magic Skills points. :shrug: Mystic Adepts are sketchy enough that I don't consider it at all cheesy for them to use the more generous interpretation. -Frank |
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Dec 19 2007, 11:56 PM
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#81
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...now I know he's been busy on Missions artwork but it would be cool if Squinky could be enticed do pics of each of the main archetype characters & have a link to the drawings put in each character post.
[...shhhhh, don't tell him I mentioned that...] :grinbig: |
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Dec 20 2007, 12:45 AM
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#82
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,244 Joined: 2-August 07 Member No.: 12,442 |
oh man, drawing of each of the sample characters would be rediculous.
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Dec 21 2007, 01:27 AM
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#83
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
Ok, so here was my take of the Combat Mage. He went under a few tweaks: I made him a Troll, for one, and i went lighter on the conjuring skills. I felt i wanted the Combat Mage to be pretty aggressive in and of himself, but his Magic of 5 plus Conjuring Group of 2 doesn't completely suck. I went a little skill heavier too, making him pretty dangerous in whatever situation, as befitting a combat mage.
[ Spoiler ] Hope he turned out allright. I think i added his gear up correctly. If i spent too much, i could axe a couple Lodge levels or something, but i think its about accurate. This, in my head, is how a Combat Mage might look. If i were to play him, id probably utilize some karma and buy him up some more Dodge and social skills(especially Intimidation..a guy like this could have it, though hes probably scary enough as it is) since his Charisma is fairly decent, especially for a troll. EDIT: Next, i think im actually going to put in a melee oriented physical adept; ill be using the base of a character ive played for awhile, a Bouncer. There is no bouncer/bodyguard archetype, and no melee oriented adepts, so ill do a few tweaks on the character(no Street Magic) and see how it runs. |
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Dec 21 2007, 02:54 AM
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#84
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Ooh, I'd love to see a Bodyguard. There hasn't been one of those for a while.
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Dec 21 2007, 05:05 AM
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#85
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
Well, heres a tweak up of my Bouncer/Bodyguard, still in play, but adjusted to be more fitting to a BBB Sample Character. I think.
[ Spoiler ] Ive played this character(save a couple of changes; i changed a couple of his skills around that are a bit more personal and put in some good general skills, like Negotation(which i had bought later with Karma, in my case). I also put Combat Sense in this version; he can double a little easier as a bodyguard as well(I went with Thermographic Vision/Flare Comp in the original). This guy's point is to scare people, notice about anything(high Perception, Enhanced Perception, and vision enhancements), sometimes noticing things about them before they do. Astral Perception with some Astral Combat round out his idea; a bouncer has to be able to keep those pesky Astral people out, after all. Killing Hands makes for when it just has to be done, and Critical Strike allows for some seriously painful hits; this guy doesnt have much in the way of firearms. And Kinesics helps round out his social skills; he does use his Intimidation alot, and Negotations comes in handy as well. He might not be as good as a textbook bodyguard due to the lack of guns, but i was more looking to make an unarmed guy in the Sample Characters, since there wasn't really one. And yeah, i took some similar gear for both my characters...feel free to change the commlinks or whatever. :grinbig: |
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Dec 21 2007, 05:31 AM
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#86
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,244 Joined: 2-August 07 Member No.: 12,442 |
Here is a sample character of the guy I'm playing now. I started off with a random assortment of stuff, but here is what I would have started with had I known what would be useful.
The Chameleon [ Spoiler ] This guy basically can transform into anyone he wants, mimic their voice, and even do so on the fly. He makes a rediculous assassin because he can change disguises repeatedly. He's light on skills, but that makes him a prime canidate for skillwires. |
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Dec 21 2007, 06:35 AM
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#87
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,873 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
Gremlins will make for great fun for the GM when those high tech disguises start freaking out... Kinda like Arnie's disguise in Total Recall.. :rotfl:
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Dec 21 2007, 04:08 PM
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#88
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
twwwwoooooooooooooo wwwweeeeeeeeeeeeks |
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Dec 21 2007, 07:42 PM
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#89
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,244 Joined: 2-August 07 Member No.: 12,442 |
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Dec 22 2007, 04:13 AM
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#90
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
You know, i just had an awesome brainfart. I was looking over the Occult Investigator again, and noticed he had a mild addiction to Jazz.
The first thing i thought was ''well, unless they have a real lean GM, i dont think he's going to buy that they have to listen to Miles Davis on a failed Will roll''. :rotfl: :rotfl: then i remembered. oops. :grinbig: |
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Dec 27 2007, 03:26 AM
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#91
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Caome on, guys, we've only got a few left to go!
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Dec 27 2007, 07:58 AM
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#92
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
I'll call dibs on the face. Just need to finish his contacts and gear. I kept this one pretty simple - just some kinesics, instead of the kinesics/improved ability/tailored pheromes combo.
This guy will be a Former Mr. Johnson who got tossed to the curb, and now has to resort to rubbing elbows with the same gutter trash that he used to hire for jobs. ;) |
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Dec 27 2007, 08:23 AM
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#93
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 490 Joined: 29-August 06 From: Texas Member No.: 9,245 |
that would make for a pretty interesting character tho. disappears into Jazz clubs randomly and dresses like a total beatnik, would have to be a veterinarian and drink lots of fruit juice and things like that, oh and carry a Tenor Sax. If they can;t find a club, the top of whatever building will do nicely, just so long as people can hear him for 3 miles square. |
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Dec 27 2007, 03:49 PM
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#94
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
The Smuggler archetype suffers from not being good at, well, smuggling, She can drive, she can fix a car, and she can fight. Can she bluff her way past a check point? Not really (2 dice for Con). Can she sleaze under observation through traffic? Not really (4 Dice for Shadowing). Can she hide contraband from investigating authorities? Again no (4 ice for Palming tests). Basically there's nothing she can do as far as smuggling goes except but a tool box on the accelerator and hope that the fuzz doesn't show. That's unfortunate. Hell, she has metal in her bones and she can't even personally walk through a checkpoint without having alarms go off.
Goal: This character should be able to be more than the wheels of the team. She should be able to get people, places, and things into and out of Seattle with a minimum of fuss. Smuggler “This baby can make the Kessel Run in 20 furlongs.� [ Spoiler ] So how did we do? In extreme mortal kombat she is a terror. Minigrenades and machine guns blaze at 13 dice (Command 5 + Gunnery 6 + Control Rig 2), and she can get 3 IP by going limp. She drives her car, motorbike, or Steel Lynx with a not inconsiderable 11 dice. She can talk her way past most check points with her 8 dice at Etiquette or Con and a passable usage of every language in use on such check points from here to Hong Kong, Europort, and Caracas. Her 8 die shadowing pool is decent, very decent when she's stalking people with recon drones. Weaknesses: The obvious limitations are her low Palming skill (6 dice), which is only slightly better than the 4 dice that the original archetype rolled with. Also, she's complete shit in combat unless she has a drone on hand. That's the price she pays for being able to successfully pass herself off as harmless – she actually is harmless. Problems I had making this archetype: Once you extensively house rule a section, it is amazing how much you forget is fucked up in the original document. Like, you can't actually purchase a sensor rating for vehicles. And there's really no reason to even have an Electronic Warfare skill because every one of your drones has the same dice pool for the skill that you do (even better if you don't max out your EW at chargen). Argh, god damnit those rules are incomprehensible. -Frank |
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Dec 27 2007, 08:16 PM
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#95
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...hoo boy a bit of critique here (and the most I have done for any character in some time)
I'd be hard pressed to run a character who couldn't defend herself without being in her ride. The thing is she is going to be out of her vehicle at times, such as at a bar negotiating a run. I've been at customs points before where you were asked to get out of the vehicle while it was searched. Things go sour, and it's a short career. If anything this character is more of a Vehicle/Drone Rigger/Face than a Smuggler. The three negative qualities really work against the character. Combat Paralysis is deadly (I don't even know why any of the original sample characters have it), for if something breaks down at a checkpoint she is in big trouble. If she's trying to "Sweet Talk" her way through a checkpoint she is at her Meat Initiative and dead last in the IP. One jumpy, trigger happy guard and it's all over. The Low Pain Tolerance would also affect her if she suffers dumpshock. Being able to Hack would be a benefit even if it is to file a forged waybill showing she's a legit courier. The fact she is incompetent means she cannot even default. Depending on how the GM uses the rules two of these also add to her notoriety. Ideally anyone would like to avoid combat (well maybe not the Sprawl Ganger or Street Sam), but in Shadowrun it is almost as inevitable as the acid rain in Seattle. Drones take time to ready, pulling a Fichetti Security with S&S takes a simple action (free action if on a hidden gun slide). I would have ditched the elf metatype to save some BPs for skills & attributes and maybe drop a couple drones to get some ware so that she can boost her Agility. For choice of vehicle, I would have opted for the Bulldog as it is bland (UPS ConFedEx etc.) and better armoured than the faster yet more distinctive Westwind. I thought the bike the original character had was even more ridiculous as there wasn't a lot of cargo space and with a called shot she would be easy to take out. I know, building for the RAW is a pain particularly when you are designing a "matrix heavy" character which is why I chose the Gunslinger Adept over the Matrix Specialist. This is a character type who would actually work better after Arsenal is released. |
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Dec 27 2007, 08:47 PM
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#96
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Are we reading the same quality? You roll half dice on initiative tests. Not "your initiative is halved," but you literally just roll half as many dice. Your Init total is hits + Initiative value (which is unchanged). So for example, this character has an initiative of 9. She has Combat Paralysis so she rolls 5 dice (instead of 9), and then she adds nine to that value. Her average initiative score is 10.7 - and if she didn't have Combat Paralysis she'd have an average score of 12. But get this: if she didn't have Combat Paralysis and saved the 20 points by reducing her Intuition and Reaction by 1 each, she'd have an average initiative score of only 9.3 - less than she gets taking Combat Paralysis and spending the points on being faster. As is, she goes off on average before those sad Init 7 Security Patrols anyway. The -3 it gives on Surprise tests is bad, but since it comes with +2 dice on the same tests from the Attribute boost it's really not that bad. The character is rolling 6 dice on those tests, and that's not super shabby (plus if your first action in combat is to take cover and turn on your death bot, the surprise test doesn't even pretend to matter). Combat Paralysis is a role playing hook and a not-too-subtle hint to stay the frag out of combat with the character. But its actual effect on character actions in combat is completely laughable. Min/maxing 101 says that this is a quality which should seriously go on Street Sams and other combat maniacs. The effects it actually has on a character are nothing like worth the massive pile of points it gives you. No, the real kickers are the crap like Uncouth and Infirm. Those things actually cost you points in the long run and are incredibly crippling. -Frank |
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Dec 27 2007, 09:06 PM
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#97
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
I'm not a big fan of combat paralysis either, but mostly because people tend to put it on characters who are already hopelessly slow to begin with. Putting it on someone who's fast, on the other hand, is a lot like giving a Severe Uncommon Allergy to a mage who already knows Alleviate Allergy and owns several Health Sustaining Foci. Sure, you're still better off without the allergy, but it's certainly manageable.
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Dec 27 2007, 09:52 PM
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#98
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...apologies. Just went back & read the description (both in 4th & 3rd ed). Seems I got mixed it up with Initiative glitches which puts the character behind everyone else in the IP.
Still, the hit on surprise would keep me from taking it as I had a GM who was big on throwing us into such situations. Were it not that my character's usually had a decent perception DP, things would have been worse. Again, I still see there will be times this character is out of her vehicle and therefore unable to take advantage of her rigging VR bonuses to reaction and Initiative (remembering the scene with Greedo & Han in the Mos Eisely cantina). I also wasn't thinking of simply ditching the quality and losing the 20 BPs, but replacing it with other negative qualities (in part or total value). I will admit, it is an interesting and challenging angle to play the smooth talking smuggler (hence the character's "quote"). Another level in the influence skill group could be a benefit (though still not sure where Leadership would come into play). I totally agree on Uncouth and Infirm (I worked up a homegrown Infirm quality that was more like the original), and to a lesser degree, Uneducated. |
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Dec 27 2007, 10:19 PM
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#99
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
The Smuggler is very well done. It's the sample character I would have taken a stab at myself but it's much more useful to me to see Frank's take. I also have an issue with Combat Paralysis, however. It's not as bad mechanically as people think (though you know if you play a character with it, you will inevitably die due to a failed surprise check), but it's not fun to role-play. It means that a character is terrified in combat - rabbit in headlights style. That could get very old very quickly. It depends how you see it, I suppose. It's just for me, a thing I wouldn't want to have to role-play. I would cobble together some other flaws for this character, perhaps a Severe Sunlight Allergy. She's a smuggler, after all. ;) |
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Dec 27 2007, 11:28 PM
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#100
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
It can also represent someone who always totally freaks out when threatened. For example, they always talk when they should act. "How dare you point that gun at me!" There are multiple amusing ways to handle it.
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